Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

sutomcat

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That seems like a bizarre decision. What does closing those two streets benefit the construction?? Bizarre
Access to the parking lots west of the Dome has always been difficult. Any moves to make it harder, that will force all the cars that park there to go through one bottleneck, will be disastrous. I hope the people trying to make a design know what they are doing.
 

JeremyCuse

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Access to the parking lots west of the Dome has always been difficult. Any moves to make it harder, that will force all the cars that park there to go through one bottleneck, will be disastrous. I hope the people trying to make a design know what they are doing.
Agreed tomcat, unfortunately past history tells us that they likely dont and that the Clemson game will likely be a nightmare. I fear SU is very ill prepared to handle what could be north of 48-49K for the Clemson game from a facilities and concession standpoint including parking.
 

OttoMets

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For those who can't visualize it:

Fineview2017.PNG


Fineview.PNG


I was hoping that East Raynor could be reconnected to the grid as part of this project. It won't. This is far from perfect, but I don't know that it'll increase travel times. For people coming from the south on I-81, this will get people directly to Van Buren Street without having to mess with that awful East Adams intersection. The loss of connection between Fineview and streets to the west, I think, will affect outbound traffic more significantly - everyone's going to be funneled back to the east to a bottleneck at Van Buren.

I'm most disappointed that there's no mention of a future for OnTrack. The station's going to be demolished with no provision for replacement. This project should be the impetus for enhancements to transit. Shame that it isn't.
 

sutomcat

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For those who can't visualize it:

View attachment 163759

View attachment 163760

I was hoping that East Raynor could be reconnected to the grid as part of this project. It won't. This is far from perfect, but I don't know that it'll increase travel times. For people coming from the south on I-81, this will get people directly to Van Buren Street without having to mess with that awful East Adams intersection. The loss of connection between Fineview and streets to the west, I think, will affect outbound traffic more significantly - everyone's going to be funneled back to the east to a bottleneck at Van Buren.

I'm most disappointed that there's no mention of a future for OnTrack. The station's going to be demolished with no provision for replacement. This project should be the impetus for enhancements to transit. Shame that it isn't.
Wow, the attractiveness of parking at the Fine Lot is going to be heavily impacted by this. Not sure I want to park in a West Lot for football or basketball in the future.

This could affect attendance. What a disappointing decision.

Per Jake's point, I agree. This looks like it is aligned with the long term university plans to do away with the parking lots west of the Dome. Shuttling from Manley and Skytop is going to be a big thing very soon.

It is a shame. The university finally figured out a way to dramatically increase donations by leveraging good parking spots and now that is being taken away or it's attractiveness is being severely damaged.
 
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dooey139

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For those who are not aware, Renwick Ave and Fineview between Renwick and E Raynor Ave are being closed permanently during the first half of the 5 year grid project.

My guess is the Fine Lot’s days are numbered and will not be an option in the not so distant future.
I wonder how this is going to affect the elementary school right there. Being right next to constant construction probably isn't the best thing for kids.
 

OttoMets

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Wow, the attractiveness of parking at the Fine Lot is going to be heavily impacted by this. Not sure I want to park in a West Lot for football or basketball in the future.

This could affect attendance. What a disappointing decision.
You think? I meant to illustrate that it wouldn't be so bad. Though maybe it'll slow you down coming in from the north (no more quick back access from Almond under the viaduct)? Access aside, I think overall atmosphere will improve, since 55-mph freeway traffic noise will be reduced.

It's probably all moot if SU can't reconcile game parking demand at a reasonable price with all their other competing concerns (construction staging, cheapo parking for grad students and residents, etc.).
 

OttoMets

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I wonder how this is going to affect the elementary school right there. Being right next to constant construction probably isn't the best thing for kids.
NYSDOT's chipping in for a splash pad and some park improvements to placate the neighbors. Still can't make up for the impact of on noise and emissions on schoolkids, unfortunately.

I will say that the DEIS chapter on construction staging is a fascinating read, though. They take into account pretty much everything.
 

Cusefan0307

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I don't know how some of you enjoy parking in the lots near the dome now. Every time I have done it, it has been a disaster leaving the place and I am quite impatient to begin with. I'd much rather park somewhere off university.
 

rrlbees

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I don't know how some of you enjoy parking in the lots near the dome now. Every time I have done it, it has been a disaster leaving the place and I am quite impatient to begin with. I'd much rather park somewhere off university.
We all go back to the Fine Lot and listen to Jeremy break down the game in a way that only he can.
 

sutomcat

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You think? I meant to illustrate that it wouldn't be so bad. Though maybe it'll slow you down coming in from the north (no more quick back access from Almond under the viaduct)? Access aside, I think overall atmosphere will improve, since 55-mph freeway traffic noise will be reduced.

It's probably all moot if SU can't reconcile game parking demand at a reasonable price with all their other competing concerns (construction staging, cheapo parking for grad students and residents, etc.).
I don't want to speak for anyone but myself.

For me, I have never noticed the noise of the highway when I am at the Fine Lot. Sirens from firetrucks and ambulances maybe.

As you know, I come from the north to games. I take I-81. If there is little traffic at the Harrison exit, I will take it and go the Fine Lot from Almond, under I-81. If it is backed up there, I continue on I-81, get off on Brighton, and take State to Castle/MLK and then Fineview. This is how I go most of the time. Going this way, I have never been backed up into traffic and it consistently provides smooth, easy access to the Fine or Standart Lots (I park at Standart for basketball).

When I leave after games, I almost always retrace my steps down Fineview, down Castle/MLK to State, then get off on Colvin and get on I-81N there. The traffic getting on I-81N from the nightmare bottleneck from the West lots is typically only starting to emerge on to the highway, and I find I can even merge onto I-690E if I need to without much problem.

If I go from Fine or Standart through the bottleneck directly north, and try to drive under I-81N on Almond and get on I-81N near Harrison, I find I get delayed an extra 10-20 minutes; more for big games or games I stayed to the very end for. This isn't a huge deal for football games during the day or even weekend night football games. It is irritating and I acknowledge I am spoiled living in CNY where we typically don't have to deal with traffic much but if I can avoid getting stuck in traffic for 20 minutes, I will do it every time.

This is a huge issue for weekday night basketball games. I can't be getting home from those games at 10:00, 10:30 or later.

I am sure the community grid will do some good things for the area but implementing it takes away a really good option for getting to and getting from games from the north.

Couple that with the change we are talking about here and the bottleneck heading north from the West lots that has been problem becomes an enormous problem. At least for me. If I want to get home at a reasonable time from a 7 pm basketball game, I think my only shot will be to park at Manley or Skytop, take I-481 all the way around the eastern part of the county and backtrack to Liverpool from Bear.

On the map you posted, it looks like Fineview will survive and allow people to drive south, past Standart. If one could drive down to say the Oakwood cemetery main entrance, and then ride a bridge over the railroad tracks and the highway formerly known as I-81 to get on Oakwood east of there, there would be a reasonable way to access the West lots from the south.

They need to provide that. It would make a huge difference to have another means of ingress/egress there. Just my opinion.
 

OttoMets

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...

Couple that with the change we are talking about here and the bottleneck heading north from the West lots that has been problem becomes an enormous problem. At least for me. If I want to get home at a reasonable time from a 7 pm basketball game, I think my only shot will be to park at Manley or Skytop, take I-481 all the way around the eastern part of the county and backtrack to Liverpool from Bear.

On the map you posted, it looks like Fineview will survive and allow people to drive south, past Standart. If one could drive down to say the Oakwood cemetery main entrance, and then ride a bridge over the railroad tracks and the highway formerly known as I-81 to get on Oakwood east of there, there would be a reasonable way to access the West lots from the south.

They need to provide that. It would make a huge difference to have another means of ingress/egress there. Just my opinion.
Agree. Part of the traffic problem stems from the lack of east-west access to West Campus. The NYSDOT proposal does nothing to solve this. Not sure what the solution is, but for a long time I've argued that reconnecting East Raynor - which could get people out of the mess and over to Salina, West, Geddes, and a bunch of other options - would help a lot. But their work with the NYS&W line will prevent that.

Weeknight basketball games are getting increasingly unpleasant for me, too. (Of course, getting home late at night would be more tolerable if I'd just watched an enjoyable Syracuse-style up-tempo basketball game, but I digress...) If you don't mind the 12-minute walk up the hill, I'd recommend looking into lots or garages down near Syracuse Stage. Much quicker traffic dispersement down there. I think all of us non-experts can agree that SPD's traffic management on West Campus is illogical and seems to make matters worse.
 

JeremyCuse

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For those who can't visualize it:

View attachment 163759

View attachment 163760

I was hoping that East Raynor could be reconnected to the grid as part of this project. It won't. This is far from perfect, but I don't know that it'll increase travel times. For people coming from the south on I-81, this will get people directly to Van Buren Street without having to mess with that awful East Adams intersection. The loss of connection between Fineview and streets to the west, I think, will affect outbound traffic more significantly - everyone's going to be funneled back to the east to a bottleneck at Van Buren.

I'm most disappointed that there's no mention of a future for OnTrack. The station's going to be demolished with no provision for replacement. This project should be the impetus for enhancements to transit. Shame that it isn't.
I believe Fineview is the main road that runs behind the fine lot next to the old train tracks and up to Standart, is Renwick the road that runs underneath the bridge? I am awful with street names and locations. As others have noted this doesn't appear to be a huge issue for tailgating purposes as you can come still come the back way between SU and brick city via Almond and then Van Buren Street but trying to force everyone through there at the end of games will as Tomcat noted make it a nightmare if your not tailgating post game. For those going West there is a cut through street or two via Brick City that maybe an option versus waiting god knows how long in traffic.
 

JeremyCuse

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Agree. Part of the traffic problem stems from the lack of east-west access to West Campus. The NYSDOT proposal does nothing to solve this. Not sure what the solution is, but for a long time I've argued that reconnecting East Raynor - which could get people out of the mess and over to Salina, West, Geddes, and a bunch of other options - would help a lot. But their work with the NYS&W line will prevent that.

Weeknight basketball games are getting increasingly unpleasant for me, too. (Of course, getting home late at night would be more tolerable if I'd just watched an enjoyable Syracuse-style up-tempo basketball game, but I digress...) If you don't mind the 12-minute walk up the hill, I'd recommend looking into lots or garages down near Syracuse Stage. Much quicker traffic dispersement down there. I think all of us non-experts can agree that SPD's traffic management on West Campus is illogical and seems to make matters worse.
Do we have any idea when the construction will force the road closures. I know the Grid has been officially picked but I am thinking this is still a few years off no? I mean it is Syracuse so maybe many years, lol.
 

sutomcat

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Agree. Part of the traffic problem stems from the lack of east-west access to West Campus. The NYSDOT proposal does nothing to solve this. Not sure what the solution is, but for a long time I've argued that reconnecting East Raynor - which could get people out of the mess and over to Salina, West, Geddes, and a bunch of other options - would help a lot. But their work with the NYS&W line will prevent that.

Weeknight basketball games are getting increasingly unpleasant for me, too. (Of course, getting home late at night would be more tolerable if I'd just watched an enjoyable Syracuse-style up-tempo basketball game, but I digress...) If you don't mind the 12-minute walk up the hill, I'd recommend looking into lots or garages down near Syracuse Stage. Much quicker traffic dispersement down there. I think all of us non-experts can agree that SPD's traffic management on West Campus is illogical and seems to make matters worse.
Yup. The best things this community has going for it are Syracuse University and SUNY Upstate. Worst of the worst effects of I-81, IMHO, is that it has served as a wall preventing spin off development from those entities westward.

How can you get rid of I81 and not open up access to the SU campus and medical complex from the west? This is our one chance to fix this long standing issue. I would hate to see it thrown away. Is it possible plans could still be changed?
 

JeremyCuse

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We all go back to the Fine Lot and listen to Jeremy break down the game in a way that only he can.
Hey, when your a dozen beers deep and you just lost to Middle Tenn your going to get a few gems. Hopefully this years home schedule will go as well as last years and the breakdowns will be mostly positive and led by Tomcat in his high upper management voice and hand movements.
 

OttoMets

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Do we have any idea when the construction will force the road closures. I know the Grid has been officially picked but I am thinking this is still a few years off no? I mean it is Syracuse so maybe many years, lol.
Fall 2021 at the earliest, I think.
 
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i dont get why, if trying to connect the city as much as possible seems to be a goal, they arent connecting Raynor back to Renwick somehow. Seems silly.
 

Noexcuse

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I don't want to speak for anyone but myself.

For me, I have never noticed the noise of the highway when I am at the Fine Lot. Sirens from firetrucks and ambulances maybe.

As you know, I come from the north to games. I take I-81. If there is little traffic at the Harrison exit, I will take it and go the Fine Lot from Almond, under I-81. If it is backed up there, I continue on I-81, get off on Brighton, and take State to Castle/MLK and then Fineview. This is how I go most of the time. Going this way, I have never been backed up into traffic and it consistently provides smooth, easy access to the Fine or Standart Lots (I park at Standart for basketball).

When I leave after games, I almost always retrace my steps down Fineview, down Castle/MLK to State, then get off on Colvin and get on I-81N there. The traffic getting on I-81N from the nightmare bottleneck from the West lots is typically only starting to emerge on to the highway, and I find I can even merge onto I-690E if I need to without much problem.

If I go from Fine or Standart through the bottleneck directly north, and try to drive under I-81N on Almond and get on I-81N near Harrison, I find I get delayed an extra 10-20 minutes; more for big games or games I stayed to the very end for. This isn't a huge deal for football games during the day or even weekend night football games. It is irritating and I acknowledge I am spoiled living in CNY where we typically don't have to deal with traffic much but if I can avoid getting stuck in traffic for 20 minutes, I will do it every time.

This is a huge issue for weekday night basketball games. I can't be getting home from those games at 10:00, 10:30 or later.

I am sure the community grid will do some good things for the area but implementing it takes away a really good option for getting to and getting from games from the north.

Couple that with the change we are talking about here and the bottleneck heading north from the West lots that has been problem becomes an enormous problem. At least for me. If I want to get home at a reasonable time from a 7 pm basketball game, I think my only shot will be to park at Manley or Skytop, take I-481 all the way around the eastern part of the county and backtrack to Liverpool from Bear.

On the map you posted, it looks like Fineview will survive and allow people to drive south, past Standart. If one could drive down to say the Oakwood cemetery main entrance, and then ride a bridge over the railroad tracks and the highway formerly known as I-81 to get on Oakwood east of there, there would be a reasonable way to access the West lots from the south.

They need to provide that. It would make a huge difference to have another means of ingress/egress there. Just my opinion.
You might consider following State a little farther than Colvin and go to Brighton. Take Brighton past Ainsley Drive towards the current 481 Interchange which is where the 81 bypass is going to be.
 

IthacaMatt

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I think all of us non-experts can agree that SPD's traffic management on West Campus is illogical and seems to make matters worse.
It's so evident that if they just let people drive normally, traffic lights and stop signs will do a better job of managing traffic flow than the cops, who funnel everyone into the same few streets to exit the area.
 

Shrmdougluvr

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For those who can't visualize it:

View attachment 163759

View attachment 163760

I was hoping that East Raynor could be reconnected to the grid as part of this project. It won't. This is far from perfect, but I don't know that it'll increase travel times. For people coming from the south on I-81, this will get people directly to Van Buren Street without having to mess with that awful East Adams intersection. The loss of connection between Fineview and streets to the west, I think, will affect outbound traffic more significantly - everyone's going to be funneled back to the east to a bottleneck at Van Buren.

I'm most disappointed that there's no mention of a future for OnTrack. The station's going to be demolished with no provision for replacement. This project should be the impetus for enhancements to transit. Shame that it isn't.
Maybe a dumb question? How can it be a "grid" when there are no roads running east-west bisecting it?
 

maxxyz

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Yup. The best things this community has going for it are Syracuse University and SUNY Upstate. Worst of the worst effects of I-81, IMHO, is that it has served as a wall preventing spin off development from those entities westward.

How can you get rid of I81 and not open up access to the SU campus and medical complex from the west? This is our one chance to fix this long standing issue. I would hate to see it thrown away. Is it possible plans could still be changed?
Are we sure that that the SU administration want more access to the campus? Their long term plan has been to reduce traffic on campus and they have been involved in the conversations on the grid project. If they wanted the road reopened wouldn't they have pushed for it? They've had alot of input.
 

OttoMets

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Maybe a dumb question? How can it be a "grid" when there are no roads running east-west bisecting it?
Fair question. It'll be a grid north of Burt Street (except for Monroe and Madison and a couple other streets that will remain unconnected). Near West Campus, it's looking like a grid in name only. Obviously the rail line and the topography create some major obstacles, but you've pointed out a real irony.
 

sufandu

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As attendance consistently increases, hopefully Centro will start some shuttles from other areas for people looking to avoid traffic that don't tailgait. When I lived up there and had season tickets I caught the shuttle at Great Northern. From what I've read on here, that's not a good option anymore, but I would think other areas could work, at the very least Destiny.
 
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