Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

dooey139

Scout Team
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
250
Like
407
As attendance consistently increases, hopefully Centro will start some shuttles from other areas for people looking to avoid traffic that don't tailgait. When I lived up there and had season tickets I caught the shuttle at Great Northern. From what I've read on here, that's not a good option anymore, but I would think other areas could work, at the very least Destiny.
I'd keep an eye on this page, SU Football Game Day Express , IIRC they had shuttles from Great Northern and Shoppingtown last year for football.
 

sufandu

All American
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
7,054
Like
6,826
I'd keep an eye on this page, SU Football Game Day Express , IIRC they had shuttles from Great Northern and Shoppingtown last year for football.
I don't live up there anymore, but when I make the trip up for a game sometime, I'll have to check it out. Thanks.

Interestingly, I was told by someone on here they would never do a shuttle from Great Northern again because it's a dead mall, as if the success of the mall mattered to a service that really only wants a large accessible parking lot.
 

Cheriehoop

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
7,580
Like
17,147
I don't live up there anymore, but when I make the trip up for a game sometime, I'll have to check it out. Thanks.

Interestingly, I was told by someone on here they would never do a shuttle from Great Northern again because it's a dead mall, as if the success of the mall mattered to a service that really only wants a large accessible parking lot.
Centro had announced that they were stopping service to Great Northern about 2 months ago. There was some pushback so they have resumed it temporarily. I imagine they will eventually stop all service which will absolutely kill the dying mall.

Fusillo has already been using the northwest parking lots to store their new cars but there is plenty of room still. I think there was a proposal for developing the mall for housing. Seneca Mall is another option for a park and ride to the dome. It used to be a park n ride for the State Fair. I don’t know how bus access has been affected by all the campus and dome changes too though. If people have to still walk a good distance after a bus ride, I doubt it will be extremely successful.

The University and city have to make up their mind whether they want all the headaches and benefits of a fully accessible city campus or not. This half way stuff really makes it a nightmare for big events that the university has. Three of the 5 Syracuse area hospitals sharing the immediate campus’ footprint only complicates matters for both the community and the university. Has anyone tried to visit a patient on a game Day? I have and it’s horrendous.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
14,307
Like
17,980
...

The University and city have to make up their mind whether they want all the headaches and benefits of a fully accessible city campus or not. This half way stuff really makes it a nightmare for big events that the university has. Three of the 5 Syracuse area hospitals sharing the immediate campus’ footprint only complicates matters for both the community and the university. Has anyone tried to visit a patient on a game Day? I have and it’s horrendous.
Nice post, especially this. SU's been trying to have it both ways for three administrations now and it doesn't work particularly well for fans, visitors, or neighbors (or students/prospective students, apparently, which is why they keep pouring millions into these new infrastructure fads, trying to fix some perceived problem that they created a few years ago with their last expensive fad).
 

sufandu

All American
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
7,054
Like
6,826
Centro had announced that they were stopping service to Great Northern about 2 months ago. There was some pushback so they have resumed it temporarily. I imagine they will eventually stop all service which will absolutely kill the dying mall.

Fusillo has already been using the northwest parking lots to store their new cars but there is plenty of room still. I think there was a proposal for developing the mall for housing. Seneca Mall is another option for a park and ride to the dome. It used to be a park n ride for the State Fair. I don’t know how bus access has been affected by all the campus and dome changes too though. If people have to still walk a good distance after a bus ride, I doubt it will be extremely successful.

The University and city have to make up their mind whether they want all the headaches and benefits of a fully accessible city campus or not. This half way stuff really makes it a nightmare for big events that the university has. Three of the 5 Syracuse area hospitals sharing the immediate campus’ footprint only complicates matters for both the community and the university. Has anyone tried to visit a patient on a game Day? I have and it’s horrendous.
Normal Centro service is different than the gameday shuttles they ran. When I used it you parked at the outskirts of the parking lot on the toys r us side and they picked up 1 1/2 hours before kickoff and returned immediately after the game. Regardless of what happens to the mall, it remains a large parking lot to use.

If not there, it makes sense to have something available somewhere for people coming from the north that don't want to fight traffic.
 
Last edited:

Fly Rodder

Regional Paradigm Agent
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
4,589
Like
8,692
Nice post, especially this. SU's been trying to have it both ways for three administrations now and it doesn't work particularly well for fans, visitors, or neighbors (or students/prospective students, apparently, which is why they keep pouring millions into these new infrastructure fads, trying to fix some perceived problem that they created a few years ago with their last expensive fad).
These are all the best compromises for a non-ideal situation such as having a major sports venue in the middle of crowded campus. Moderately to dense urban development just isn't compatible with a huge inflow and outflow of single driver cars. Parking lots are an awful waste of valuable property.

I know there were tremendous hurdles to this, but if you can avoid putting venues like this in areas that aren't meant for a lot of vehicles, you don't. Basically, if you boil it down, SU and the City didn't want to pay for a new stadium in a more accessible location and they're passing the costs onto the fans who pay for it by collectively waiting in traffic for 20 minutes. That said, I think traffic flow around SU events is surprisingly good. I've been to venues that are utter shite for traffic flow despite being in the middle of nowheres.

However, I agree that these are definitely things that SU (as the area's largest employer and destination) should be feverishly working with regional DOT, NYSDOT, and Feds to make sure they are addressed. BUT self-inflicted complications don't gives some property owners rights over other property owners. And railways especially are notoriously tough to deal with regarding their rights.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
14,307
Like
17,980
These are all the best compromises for a non-ideal situation such as having a major sports venue in the middle of crowded campus. Moderately to dense urban development just isn't compatible with a huge inflow and outflow of single driver cars. Parking lots are an awful waste of valuable property.

I know there were tremendous hurdles to this, but if you can avoid putting venues like this in areas that aren't meant for a lot of vehicles, you don't. Basically, if you boil it down, SU and the City didn't want to pay for a new stadium in a more accessible location and they're passing the costs onto the fans who pay for it by collectively waiting in traffic for 20 minutes. That said, I think traffic flow around SU events is surprisingly good. I've been to venues that are utter shite for traffic flow despite being in the middle of nowheres.

However, I agree that these are definitely things that SU (as the area's largest employer and destination) should be feverishly working with regional DOT, NYSDOT, and Feds to make sure they are addressed. BUT self-inflicted complications don't gives some property owners rights over other property owners. And railways especially are notoriously tough to deal with regarding their rights.
Good points. My complaints boil down to two or three areas where I think progress can be made:

1) Get OnTrack back. Self-explanatory - one more possibility for people to not bring a car to an area that doesn't have a ton of room for cars? Make it happen!
2) Quit hacking away at the grid. In an area with congestion, let's not further restrict mobility. Closing University Place and College Place put too much burden on surrounding streets, causing more gridlock, that SU and the city haven't worked strategically to reduce. Forcing extra turning movements on all SU's buses on Comstock really gums up the works on game days.
3) Go after low-hanging fruit in terms of parking priority and dynamic pricing. If Campus West residents want a car on campus, they should pay a lot. If they're going to bump decades-long SU tailgaters from lots for this privilege, they should pay even more.
 

Fly Rodder

Regional Paradigm Agent
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
4,589
Like
8,692
3) Go after low-hanging fruit in terms of parking priority and dynamic pricing. If Campus West residents want a car on campus, they should pay a lot. If they're going to bump decades-long SU tailgaters from lots for this privilege, they should pay even more
I disagree. Visitors to the campus and events, even if they are longstanding tailgaters, should be the ones paying much much more for the privilege.


(Hot take: I really dislike parking lots and I'd be happy to see them go).
 

Newhouser

All Conference
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
2,544
Like
3,493
Good points. My complaints boil down to two or three areas where I think progress can be made:

1) Get OnTrack back. Self-explanatory - one more possibility for people to not bring a car to an area that doesn't have a ton of room for cars? Make it happen!
2) Quit hacking away at the grid. In an area with congestion, let's not further restrict mobility. Closing University Place and College Place put too much burden on surrounding streets, causing more gridlock, that SU and the city haven't worked strategically to reduce. Forcing extra turning movements on all SU's buses on Comstock really gums up the works on game days.
3) Go after low-hanging fruit in terms of parking priority and dynamic pricing. If Campus West residents want a car on campus, they should pay a lot. If they're going to bump decades-long SU tailgaters from lots for this privilege, they should pay even more.
IF On-Track could make money don't you think it would already be back? Who's re-opening it? I don't buy that there will be enough traffic for the right price point to make it profitable.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
14,307
Like
17,980
I disagree. Visitors to the campus and events, even if they are longstanding tailgaters, should be the ones paying much much more for the privilege.


(Hot take: I really dislike parking lots and I'd be happy to see them go).
The way I see it, if SU chooses to have a football team, they need fans. To get fans, they need some kind of tailgating culture. And to support tailgating, they need on-site surface parking (which I really don't like in most contexts as well, for the record).

On the other hand, like 20,000 SU students get by in their walkable urban environment every day without a car, evidence that car ownership -- to say nothing of car availability right near the core of main campus -- is not a necessary part of student life at SU.

So while I agree that students should take priority over visitors in most cases, I don't think their contribution to the institution is as dependent on 8-hour blocks of car storage as the tailgaters' is.
 

rrlbees

2017 ESPN Tourney Challenge Winner
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
62,116
Like
73,838
It's so evident that if they just let people drive normally, traffic lights and stop signs will do a better job of managing traffic flow than the cops, who funnel everyone into the same few streets to exit the area.
I long for the days when the crowds were just as big as now but there were no cops on the street corners and people could also park on the streets such as Henry St. It’s more of a mess now.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
14,307
Like
17,980
IF On-Track could make money don't you think it would already be back? Who's re-opening it? I don't buy that there will be enough traffic for the right price point to make it profitable.
It's a public good, it'd never be profitable.
 

OrangeXtreme

The Mayor of Dewitt
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
102,330
Like
127,535
IF On-Track could make money don't you think it would already be back? Who's re-opening it? I don't buy that there will be enough traffic for the right price point to make it profitable.
It's a dog.

It can't compete with Uber/Lyft, or the free connective corridor shuttles, so it'll sit idle 359 days of the year.

Besides, if you live in Booth/Dellplain, or the Mount, or on Euclid, are you really walking all the way across campus just to get to the station?
 

shandeezy7

All American
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
6,688
Like
10,284
Good points. My complaints boil down to two or three areas where I think progress can be made:

1) Get OnTrack back. Self-explanatory - one more possibility for people to not bring a car to an area that doesn't have a ton of room for cars? Make it happen!
2) Quit hacking away at the grid. In an area with congestion, let's not further restrict mobility. Closing University Place and College Place put too much burden on surrounding streets, causing more gridlock, that SU and the city haven't worked strategically to reduce. Forcing extra turning movements on all SU's buses on Comstock really gums up the works on game days.
3) Go after low-hanging fruit in terms of parking priority and dynamic pricing. If Campus West residents want a car on campus, they should pay a lot. If they're going to bump decades-long SU tailgaters from lots for this privilege, they should pay even more.
The old GM of OnTrack, Bob Colucci, was my parents' neighbor. I think the real death knell for OnTrack was the bridge connection to the train/bus station never getting built. I think a line connecting the University to the bus/train station to the airport is the only way something like OnTrack could work. It's also too bad that the tracks couldn't somehow get closer to the main campus, as that's the only way it could really be convenient for University folks.
 

Fly Rodder

Regional Paradigm Agent
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
4,589
Like
8,692
The way I see it, if SU chooses to have a football team, they need fans. To get fans, they need some kind of tailgating culture. And to support tailgating, they need on-site surface parking (which I really don't like in most contexts as well, for the record).
I get it and like tailgating as much as the next guy, but there was one incident at SU that pushed me over the edge and irritated the heck out of me (and continues to do so). I was commuter student and paid my $275/semester parking fee (or whatever it was) and I had to pay another $20 one night to park just so I could go to a physics lab that coincided with a mid-week basketball game. To make money off of their football team they need non-university fans. But it's give and take and they make money, so there is going to be compromise. Having a giant sports arena and many parking lots to fleece a bunch of non-students from the 'burbs isn't the core mission of the university. Like I said, I don't mind waiting in the traffic when I park up there, but I generally park and ride to most games.
IF On-Track could make money don't you think it would already be back? Who's re-opening it? I don't buy that there will be enough traffic for the right price point to make it profitable.
There'll be enough traffic if I demolish all the parking lots around the dome and replace them with buildings. MUAUAHHAHA

Seriously, tho, trains on someone else's tracks are worthless and a giant pain for everyone involved. I work not far from the tracks downtown and would love to be able to hop a train after work to games. But there's a bus from the Hotel Syracuse, too, I think, but that might be limited.
 

sutomcat

Former Iggy Winner. I used to be somebody special
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
12,231
Like
44,086
You might consider following State a little farther than Colvin and go to Brighton. Take Brighton past Ainsley Drive towards the current 481 Interchange which is where the 81 bypass is going to be.
That was my initial plan for getting home after the grid is implemented.

It doesn't sound like there is going to be a way to get to State via the backdoor method I have described any longer. I might be able to get to Renwick from Van Buren and get to Castle/MLK and State from there but to do so, I would have to go through the massive bottleneck everyone from the West lot is going to have to pass through.

If I have to go through that bottleneck, I might as well keep driving north on the boulevard and get on I81 from there. I think the problem is getting from the the lots west of the Dome through Van Buren to Almond/the new boulevard.

Access to the campus from the west has been bad since I81 was built. It looks like removing I81 is actually going to make that access worse. Very disappointed. We have no foresight.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
14,307
Like
17,980
The old GM of OnTrack, Bob Colucci, was my parents' neighbor. I think the real death knell for OnTrack was the bridge connection to the train/bus station never getting built. I think a line connecting the University to the bus/train station to the airport is the only way something like OnTrack could work. It's also too bad that the tracks couldn't somehow get closer to the main campus, as that's the only way it could really be convenient for University folks.
I do agree that there's a huge challenge for rail in this culture and that Lyft/Uber might pose an insurmountable obstacle, too. Location of the tracks is a problem - on one hand, it's free infrastructure. On the other, in a small town where minutes matter, they might be a little too far from where people want to be.
 

sufandu

All American
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
7,054
Like
6,826
The way I see it, if SU chooses to have a football team, they need fans. To get fans, they need some kind of tailgating culture. And to support tailgating, they need on-site surface parking (which I really don't like in most contexts as well, for the record).

On the other hand, like 20,000 SU students get by in their walkable urban environment every day without a car, evidence that car ownership -- to say nothing of car availability right near the core of main campus -- is not a necessary part of student life at SU.

So while I agree that students should take priority over visitors in most cases, I don't think their contribution to the institution is as dependent on 8-hour blocks of car storage as the tailgaters' is.
Nah. SU fans need to not be whiners. There are other urban campuses with much bigger stadiums and equally crappy parking that fill their stadiums without fans crying about the tailgaiting situation.
 

Cuse12

Walk On
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
244
Like
673
Nah. SU fans need to not be whiners. There are other urban campuses with much bigger stadiums and equally crappy parking that fill their stadiums without fans crying about the tailgaiting situation.
I’m sure they are crying too. Every fan base does, about something.
 

sufandu

All American
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
7,054
Like
6,826
I’m sure they are crying too. Every fan base does, about something.
Sure. They haven't been to a conference championship game in forever and lose to Alabama every year. But they don't complain about their tailgaiting and parking situation, and the school I'm referring to, Tennessee, has absolutely no open lots near their stadium. They rely on parking garages and downtown street parking.

SU is an urban campus on a hill. There is no good way to make the parking situation good. There never will be. If we want good parking and easy accesst to tailgaiting we need to root for a school with a rural campus.
 
Last edited:

TexanMark

Tailgate Guru
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
17,951
Like
25,848
Another hotel coming to Syracuse

It is proposed to be built next to St. Joseph´s Hospital. Ninety extended stay suites and some market rate apartments for the medical workers.


Now if they can only build something nice in Little Italy where the three buildings burnt down. Hopefully, the grid will help the northern edge of downtown and Little Italy.
 

wiseman3

Walk On
Joined
Oct 21, 2018
Messages
111
Like
311
Another hotel coming to Syracuse

It is proposed to be built next to St. Joseph´s Hospital. Ninety extended stay suites and some market rate apartments for the medical workers.


Now if they can only build something nice in Little Italy where the three buildings burnt down. Hopefully, the grid will help the northern edge of downtown and Little Italy.
As always, the syracuse.com comment section is a war zone. This seems like a good thing. I agree, a vibrant north side is a key to having a greater, growing Syracuse.
 

Trueblue25

Cali Award Magistrate
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Messages
21,730
Like
31,593
Anyone who drives east across the city on 690 can see the disturbing difference between the growing vibrance of the city and near westside as opposed to the northside. I gladly invite this hotel.
 

Top Bottom