Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion | Page 34 | Syracusefan.com

Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

SPAC has way better seating, vendors and toilets.
The AMP is a sewer for those on the lawn who have to use port-a-potties that haven't been emptied since five shows ago. Also far, far easier to get in and out of for car traffic.

I guess there's some opinion involved. The most packed show I went to was Phish and the port-a-potties were fine.

I went to Kings of Leon and the regular bathrooms were fine as well and that show was quite packed.

The vendors seem the same to me.

I think SPAC is incredibly overrated and they jam people into an entirely too small of a space.
 
SPAC has way better seating, vendors and toilets.
The AMP is a sewer for those on the lawn who have to use port-a-potties that haven't been emptied since five shows ago. Also far, far easier to get in and out of for car traffic.

Interesting...the one SPAC concert I went to (way back in the day) we got stuck for hours trying to get out. I didn't get home to Syracuse until the sun was coming up. Swore I would never do that again.

The one time I went to the AMP for Kings of Leon I was able to get in and out no problem. Alhough I ubered there and took the bus to the downtown station and ubered home from there. However, I know people who parked in the VIP lot and said they where able to get in and out no problem.
 
No, it looks toward Liverpool, not Downtown. Nice view though at sunset. That's the best thing about it. Video screens are way too small. PA speakers not loud enough for the lawn. Yes, the pavilion seating is a must at SPAC, but they have about 3 times as many seats under the roof as the AMP. How do you build an outdoor arena that only has about 2,500 actual seats?

There's actually roughly 5,000 seats in the pavilion. Lakeview Amphitheater stadium and arena seating seating by Irwin Seating with beam mount 115.115.25.55 Solara & 51.12.18.12 Marquee chairs. | Irwin Seating Company
 
I went to the Skynyrd concert last Friday evening. We had preferred parking and got there early, so getting in was fine. The venue is beautiful and the acoustics were top notch.

Despite the fact that we tailgated for about an hour after the show, getting out of the lot was a total cluster. Not only do they only have one exit to funnel out 4/5 lines of cars, the attendants (not law enforcement) had no -ing idea what in the hell they doing. They would let 10 or so cars from one line go, then only 2 or 3 from the next line, etc.
 
Trader Joe's it would be perfect for the lifestyle of those living downtown.

I wish Weggie's would develop a Trader Joe's concept

Tell 'em.

They know a lot more about groceries than the two of us put together, but I'm with you that it's insane that Wegman's is clutching to the big box concept when everything else in America is moving in the other direction (e-commerce, smaller formats, urban, walkable).

Urban 35,000-sf stores would crush it in the Upstate cities because a) people like Wegmans and b) there's relatively large new populations with no competition. I think the market needs to remind Wegmans about this and push them in that direction.

Without that, though, I agree that TJ's or Whole Foods could do well. Not only would residents support it (and concerns about schlepping lots of bags don't hold up for a couple reasons - first, a neighborhood store would probably patronized a couple days a week, so people wouldn't make giant purchases in one shot; second, people are already buying groceries and carrying them to their apartments without any trouble...this just brings the store closer to them), but there are over 20,000 employees downtown five days a week. Many of them would embrace another option, especially if it's got more appeal than your generic Tops.
 
I went to the Skynyrd concert last Friday evening. We had preferred parking and got there early, so getting in was fine. The venue is beautiful and the acoustics were top notch.

Despite the fact that we tailgated for about an hour after the show, getting out of the lot was a total cluster. Not only do they only have one exit to funnel out 4/5 lines of cars, the attendants (not law enforcement) had no -ing idea what in the hell they doing. They would let 10 or so cars from one line go, then only 2 or 3 from the next line, etc.

This is probably why i won't drive there...that and I wouldn't be sober enough to drive home anyways.

When I went I took the downtown bus and there was no line to get on the bus and took only a few minutes to get to the bus station. They seem to have a separate road that the buses can take to leave. Then it was just a simple Uber ride home from there.
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, but two comments...

1) Don't (affluent-ish) people in cities just order groceries online for delivery? Literally everyone I know who lives in NYC uses FreshDirect or a similar service. I get the need to run out last-minute or late-night for something, but there doesn't need to be a full blown supermarket for that, does there?

2) I don't know if it was a typical experience, but I went to SPAC for an Imagine Dragons show this summer and it was a disaster. The lawn was so oversold that there was not a blade of grass available an hour before show time. Unless I missed something, the food options absolutely sucked -- there were a handful of food trucks with absurdly long lines. Same for bathroom facilities, just port-o-potties top handle thousands of people. Lastly, getting out was awful. I sat in my car without moving for 90 minutes, then took another 30 to get out of the lot. Thank goodness the show was good, because everything else about the experience was miserable.
 
2) I don't know if it was a typical experience, but I went to SPAC for an Imagine Dragons show this summer and it was a disaster. The lawn was so oversold that there was not a blade of grass available an hour before show time. Unless I missed something, the food options absolutely sucked -- there were a handful of food trucks with absurdly long lines. Same for bathroom facilities, just port-o-potties top handle thousands of people. Lastly, getting out was awful. I sat in my car without moving for 90 minutes, then took another 30 to get out of the lot. Thank goodness the show was good, because everything else about the experience was miserable.

That's a very typical SPAC experience.
 
Tell 'em.

They know a lot more about groceries than the two of us put together, but I'm with you that it's insane that Wegman's is clutching to the big box concept when everything else in America is moving in the other direction (e-commerce, smaller formats, urban, walkable).

Urban 35,000-sf stores would crush it in the Upstate cities because a) people like Wegmans and b) there's relatively large new populations with no competition. I think the market needs to remind Wegmans about this and push them in that direction.

Without that, though, I agree that TJ's or Whole Foods could do well. Not only would residents support it (and concerns about schlepping lots of bags don't hold up for a couple reasons - first, a neighborhood store would probably patronized a couple days a week, so people wouldn't make giant purchases in one shot; second, people are already buying groceries and carrying them to their apartments without any trouble...this just brings the store closer to them), but there are over 20,000 employees downtown five days a week. Many of them would embrace another option, especially if it's got more appeal than your generic Tops.

Wegman's is building some stores in urban areas with smaller footprints. Take a look at the one they are building in DC: Wegmans is coming to Washington
 
Wegman's is building some stores in urban areas with smaller footprints. Take a look at the one they are building in DC: Wegmans is coming to Washington
The DC locals (myself included) are very excited. That said, this new store will still be 80,000 square feet. Wegmans doesn't do small stores at the moment. Trader Joes and Aldi's usually are 10-15,000 square feet. Probably better aligned for downtown Syracuse.
 
Wegman's is building some stores in urban areas with smaller footprints. Take a look at the one they are building in DC: Wegmans is coming to Washington

Smaller than they usually operate in suburbs, but I think the new Wisconsin Avenue store is 75 or 80,000 square feet, which dwarfs the 55,000-sf Safeways that are currently huge grocery stores in that market.

Don't get me wrong, Wegmans is going to print money at that location. But they aren't comfortable building stores in an urban context.
 
I guess there's some opinion involved. The most packed show I went to was Phish and the port-a-potties were fine.

I went to Kings of Leon and the regular bathrooms were fine as well and that show was quite packed.

The vendors seem the same to me.

I think SPAC is incredibly overrated and they jam people into an entirely too small of a space.


I was at the Phish show last year, too. IMO, it was disgusting.
SPAC has two ways out, on either side of the park.
 
That's a very typical SPAC experience.

Well, then that sucks. ;)

I can't believe SPAC wins those awards for best concert venue. I've been to several of those amphitheater-style venues and it was the worst by far.
 
I was at the Phish show last year, too. IMO, it was disgusting.
SPAC has two ways out, on either side of the park.

IMO The ways out isn't the problem from a walking standpoint. Driving it is. Takes forever. As far as watching a show I think it's terrible. They oversell an already small area to pack as many people in as possible. You literally can't move on the lawn. At Lakeview you are much more free to move around.
 
I think these outdoor concert venues have lousy traffic regarldless, they sure stink in suburban DC.

Wegmans is building a smaller shop in Alexandria. Harris Teeter has an aweome place in downtown Alexandria with a Trader Joe's around the corner.
 
I think these outdoor concert venues have lousy traffic regarldless, they sure stink in suburban DC.

Wegmans is building a smaller shop in Alexandria. Harris Teeter has an aweome place in downtown Alexandria with a Trader Joe's around the corner.

Teets does a nice job with its urban stores. I was a regular at their Mount Pleasant/Adams Morgan store that they crammed into an old roller rink with parking in the basement in maybe 40,000 square feet. It had everything you'd need, kind of mediocre deli and beer selection, but a really solid store. I would love to see one of those in downtown Syracuse, but they're not coming into this market. Something for others to imitate, though.
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, but two comments...

1) Don't (affluent-ish) people in cities just order groceries online for delivery? Literally everyone I know who lives in NYC uses FreshDirect or a similar service. I get the need to run out last-minute or late-night for something, but there doesn't need to be a full blown supermarket for that, does there?

2) I don't know if it was a typical experience, but I went to SPAC for an Imagine Dragons show this summer and it was a disaster. The lawn was so oversold that there was not a blade of grass available an hour before show time. Unless I missed something, the food options absolutely sucked -- there were a handful of food trucks with absurdly long lines. Same for bathroom facilities, just port-o-potties top handle thousands of people. Lastly, getting out was awful. I sat in my car without moving for 90 minutes, then took another 30 to get out of the lot. Thank goodness the show was good, because everything else about the experience was miserable.

My daughter went to this same Imagine Dragons show, and had the identical experience.
Absurdly overcrowded, nightmare to get out.
But an awesome show, and she's an even huger fan of theirs now, in spite of all the other stuff.
 
Grew up with SPAC so the place holds a dear place in my heart. That said, it was never intended to accommodate the large crowds that show up there for rock concerts and the like. It was really meant as a cultural center and Summer home of the Philadelphia Philharmonic and New York City Ballet, catering to the wine and cheese crowd in town for the races. I was at the 1971 Who's Next Tour concert there (I think) when all hell broke loose and remember there was a moratorium on those types of events for a while. I am in Saratoga a lot during the Summer and it seems that the parking and access to the venue issues are no better now than when I was a teenager. Reminds me of SU on a game day.
 
My daughter went to this same Imagine Dragons show, and had the identical experience.
Absurdly overcrowded, nightmare to get out.
But an awesome show, and she's an even huger fan of theirs now, in spite of all the other stuff.

It was a great show. I went with my son because we were in town for a lacrosse tournament that weekend. Bought lawn tix last minute. The 2 hours of the show itself were fantastic, everything else about it was awful.

I can't believe people say SPAC is a great venue. Even for its kind, it stinks. I've been to many shows at a similar place in Mass (used to be Great Woods, not sure what corporate name is on it now) and everything about it is much better, from traffic to food to facilities.
 
It was a great show. I went with my son because we were in town for a lacrosse tournament that weekend. Bought lawn tix last minute. The 2 hours of the show itself were fantastic, everything else about it was awful.

I can't believe people say SPAC is a great venue. Even for its kind, it stinks. I've been to many shows at a similar place in Mass (used to be Great Woods, not sure what corporate name is on it now) and everything about it is much better, from traffic to food to facilities.
Tanglewood? Bill Graham did a series of concerts there in the early 70's. Great venue, but traffic in and out and parking was horrendous. I remember walking around for about a hour looking for our car.
 
Tanglewood? Bill Graham did a series of concerts there in the early 70's. Great venue, but traffic in and out and parking was horrendous. I remember walking around for about a hour looking for our car.

Nope that’s in western Mass. The former Great Woods is in Mansfield, half hour south of Boston.
 

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