Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[OttoMets]

Saying there’s no proof to point towards further state funding of a downtown, or in proximity, stadium is just lazy.

Exactly, it's 180 degrees opposite how government is supposed to work (and it's also ignoring all the silly free money from New York State, but that's a different story).

How about first laying out a policy goal and then investigating its feasibility? Instead that hick just throws up his hands and makes some dumb excuses.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Now can anyone read that and say that they're comfortable with Ryan McMahon running the proverbial ice cream truck, much less a legislature that governs 450,000 people?

Tom Buckel has the right idea, at least bring building a new ball park into the conversation. McMahon is much like some of the other legislators that hate on any idea that would bring improvements to the city, forgetting that the suburbs only exist because of downtown Syracuse.

I don't see this idea going too far but at least have the conversation. Money would be better spent revitalizing that stretch of N. Salina, Wolf St. and Hiawatha Blvd. but they'd have to relocate the adult clubs in order to really make a difference.

 

[cuse10]

Saying there’s no proof to point towards further state funding of a downtown, or in proximity, stadium is just lazy.

I agree. They built a $63M expo center for what? What does it add to the area? There are legitimate arguments against building a new stadium from scratch, but that wasn't one of them. Like most local officials, they kicked the can until it became apparent that it needed to be addressed similar to the War Memorial; another dump in itself.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Now can anyone read that and say that they're comfortable with Ryan McMahon running the proverbial ice cream truck, much less a legislature that governs 450,000 people?

McMahon is someone who is ambitious and will keep getting promoted until he exceeds his limited capabilities. But minor league baseball is such a meh event, that I don't think the extra cost for a new stadium can be justified. It was a mistake to put the park on the North Side then, but it's there. I'm not even sure that $25m renovation can increase attendance that much.

Overall, I think this lends evidence to the lack of a cohesive master plan between the city and metro area. The I-81 replacement is just such a massive project that the city and county should be on the same page so that they can take advantage of a once in a lifetime opportunity to design an urban transportation, living, and entertainment system that works together.

 

[pattycuse]

25 years later, debate resumes: Should CNY build a downtown baseball stadium?

To me, this is throwing good money after bad...that stadium was a mistake 25 years ago and we are only compounding it...especially if we do view the Mets as a flight risk- what would be a better draw for another franchise, a non-producing stadium in the middle of nowhere or an exciting new facility near a growth sector of the city?

Small town, parochial thinking...

 

[OttoMets]

McMahon is someone who is ambitious and will keep getting promoted until he exceeds his limited capabilities. But minor league baseball is such a meh event, that I don't think the extra cost for a new stadium can be justified. It was a mistake to put the park on the North Side then, but it's there. I'm not even sure that $25m renovation can increase attendance that much.

Overall, I think this lends evidence to the lack of a cohesive master plan between the city and metro area. The I-81 replacement is just such a massive project that the city and county should be on the same page so that they can take advantage of a once in a lifetime opportunity to design an urban transportation, living, and entertainment system that works together.

As you probably know, McMahon's at the top of the list of people who have totally kneecapped SOCPA (going on two years without a commissioner now because there's no political support and nobody wants to take a job that there's no political will to support), and he's also the biggest obstacle in getting Mahoney's half-assed land use plan voted into law (for maybe eight years and counting).

So, yeah, planning is a huge problem locally. But these provincial politicians have no problem weighing in on major transportation and land use policy decisions like I-81 as if their opinion matters.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I agree. They built a $63M expo center for what? What does it add to the area? There are legitimate arguments against building a new stadium from scratch, but that wasn't one of them. Like most local officials, they kicked the can until it became apparent that it needed to be addressed similar to the War Memorial; another dump in itself.

There was a contingent of people that opposed demolishing the War Memorial and building new backed by some veterans that claimed it as a historical site. Unfortunately the county folded like a cheap suit instead of planning for the future, much like they're currently doing with the I81 rebuild

 

[Trueblue25]

Exactly, it's 180 degrees opposite how government is supposed to work (and it's also ignoring all the silly free money from New York State, but that's a different story).

How about first laying out a policy goal and then investigating its feasibility? Instead that hick just throws up his hands and makes some dumb excuses.

Im thinking this article had to be a hit piece. I mean it plain and clear states that the government offered 200 mil for a non professional private university stadium funding in 2013.

 

[Trueblue25]

Why compound a further 25 mil to a mistake that may be abandoned? We are risking too much for a mets team that questionable in their commitment

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree. They built a $63M expo center for what? What does it add to the area? There are legitimate arguments against building a new stadium from scratch, but that wasn't one of them. Like most local officials, they kicked the can until it became apparent that it needed to be addressed similar to the War Memorial; another dump in itself.

I was in there a couple days ago at the Fair. It's a big metal shed with seating for about 1000 people and a hockey rink that has too much space around it, if you were actually thinking of this as a replacement for the War Memorial for the Crunch. SRC Arena, up at OCC, has more seating. It's clean, but it's just a cement slab floor, bathrooms and a nice entrance. That's what you get for $64 MILLION ???? Geeez, I am in the wrong business! I should be doing government work. FFS!

 

[IthacaMatt]

There was a contingent of people that opposed demolishing the War Memorial and building new backed by some veterans that claimed it as a historical site. Unfortunately the county folded like a cheap suit instead of planning for the future, much like they're currently doing with the I81 rebuild

The idea that people are still talking about a tunnel is freaking idiotic! It's all about campaign contributions from Congel. That's the primary thing keeping that alive.

Did you read the engineering report that talks about the salinity of our ground water near the lake being 3 to 4 times more salty than ocean water? Unless they build the entire tunnel with stainless steel, it's going to corrode. Boston's major problem with the Big Dig was that salt water kept seeping into the concrete and causing it to break up. This tunnel is going to be far worse. It's a financial disaster waiting to happen.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I was in there a couple days ago at the Fair. It's a big metal shed with seating for about 1000 people and a hockey rink that has too much space around it, if you were actually thinking of this as a replacement for the War Memorial for the Crunch. SRC Arena, up at OCC, has more seating. It's clean, but it's just a cement slab floor, bathrooms and a nice entrance. That's what you get for $64 MILLION ???? Geeez, I am in the wrong business! I should be doing government work. FFS!

4000 seats. And the rink is temporary.

 

[OttoMets]

I was in there a couple days ago at the Fair. It's a big metal shed with seating for about 1000 people and a hockey rink that has too much space around it, if you were actually thinking of this as a replacement for the War Memorial for the Crunch. SRC Arena, up at OCC, has more seating. It's clean, but it's just a cement slab floor, bathrooms and a nice entrance. That's what you get for $64 MILLION ???? Geeez, I am in the wrong business! I should be doing government work. FFS!

And -- wait for it -- it's not fully accessible. In 2018. The state built a brand-new building, apparently without a feasibility study and with no idea if there's demand for this type of space, and couldn't spring for automatic doors at the entrances or fire doors that open to ramps rather than staircases. It's a PITA for someone pushing a stroller, but horrible for someone in a wheelchair.

Also, it doesn't match any of the architecture on the rest of the site.

But mention a stadium project in downtown (where 99% of successful cities have built their ballparks) and apparently that's an outlandish boondoggle as far as the county legislature and county exec's office are concerned.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

The idea that people are still talking about a tunnel is freaking idiotic! It's all about campaign contributions from Congell. That's the primary thing keeping that alive.

From an outsider's perspective it sometimes appears that the Congel family's presence in Syracuse has been as much a liability as a benefit to the community.

 

[jr4750]

From an outsider's perspective it sometimes appears that the Congel family's presence in Syracuse has been as much a liability as a benefit to the community.

I think some would argue its been way more liability...

The idea that people are still talking about a tunnel is freaking idiotic! It's all about campaign contributions from Congell. That's the primary thing keeping that alive.

This exactly. This would be a massive mistake, costing way too much money, and pushing a project that should have already been done, back at least another 10+ years. The city has made great progress over the years. However, it has also certainly been held back by certain misguided actors. Protecting a mall (I for one having never believed that people would stop going to Destiny because the commute would take them an additional 10 minutes) at the expense of a city is beyond idiotic.

 

[IthacaMatt]

4000 seats. And the rink is temporary.

Well, they clearly didn't have all the seats pulled out then. The place looked half empty.

 

[Newhouser]

We didn't and don't need the venue at the Fairgrounds as it is built. It's a big barn with no meeting or break out space, no locker rooms, a cement floor and is going to smell like horses. That said we also don't need a stadium downtown for the Mets. I don't trust their commitment and don't believe they amp up the attendance to make it worthwhile. IMHO that money can be used for improvements elsewhere

 

[Scooch]

I mascotted for the Chiefs (hence my handle on this site) when they were still at MacArthur and I was dumbfounded that a new stadium wasn't built downtown.

It was a total mess getting it built and opened, but they put a new ballpark in downtown-ish Hartford 2 years ago. In terms of attendance and throwing off pre/post game business to the surrounding area, it has been a big success. Such a waste that Syracuse likely won't do the same.

 

[Trueblue25]

We didn't and don't need the venue at the Fairgrounds as it is built. It's a big barn with no meeting or break out space, no locker rooms, a cement floor and is going to smell like horses. That said we also don't need a stadium downtown for the Mets. I don't trust their commitment and don't believe they amp up the attendance to make it worthwhile. IMHO that money can be used for improvements elsewhere

Id argue, regardless of the mets commitment, a downtown stadium would offer a more promising future and further economic benefits, than spending more on NBT would or has.

 

[Trueblue25]

I mascotted for the Chiefs (hence my handle on this site) when they were still at MacArthur and I was dumbfounded that a new stadium wasn't built downtown.

It was a total mess getting it built and opened, but they put a new ballpark in downtown-ish Hartford 2 years ago. In terms of attendance and throwing off pre/post game business to the surrounding area, it has been a big success. Such a waste that Syracuse likely won't do the same.

Went to school in buffalo, the downtown stadium there has solid attendance and hosts a number of HUGE annual events that bring a lot of money to the downtown. This includes but is not limited to my favorite, the buffalo chicken wingfest

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I mascotted for the Chiefs (hence my handle on this site) when they were still at MacArthur and I was dumbfounded that a new stadium wasn't built downtown.

It was a total mess getting it built and opened, but they put a new ballpark in downtown-ish Hartford 2 years ago. In terms of attendance and throwing off pre/post game business to the surrounding area, it has been a big success. Such a waste that Syracuse likely won't do the same.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Yard Goats' stadium in the not-too-distant future. Also following closely my original hometown's plan for a downtown stadium for the Worcester Red Sox. Projections for the cost of that 10,000 seat stadium near Kelley Square run about $100 million. I am afraid that if Syracuse goes the route of a rehab of the north side stadium the Mets will be looking for a new city to park their Triple A affiliate in 7 or 8 years. Don't get me wrong. I want Syracuse to hold onto their baseball team. But if it has to go elsewhere I wouldn't mind seeing it in a brand new riverside park opposite the State capitol building in Rensselaer.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Yard Goats' stadium in the not-too-distant future. Also following closely my original hometown's plan for a downtown stadium for the Worcester Red Sox. Projections for the cost of that 10,000 seat stadium near Kelley Square run about $100 million. I am afraid that if Syracuse goes the route of a rehab of the north side stadium the Mets will be looking for a new city to park their Triple A affiliate in 7 or 8 years. Don't get me wrong. I want Syracuse to hold onto their baseball team. But if it has to go elsewhere I wouldn't mind seeing it in a brand new riverside park opposite the State capitol building in Rensselaer.

Yep. It's really difficult to keep a minor-league baseball team in the black. It's more difficult when the stadium is totally removed from the vibrant parts of the community. That's why almost every other city has drawn the stadium closer to that neighborhood (rather than the other way around, crossing fingers and hoping that the stadium location will draw vibrancy).

Why would the special snowflakes with Onondaga County think that Syracuse is different from every other market in the country? It's not rocket science.

 

[cuse10]

We didn't and don't need the venue at the Fairgrounds as it is built. It's a big barn with no meeting or break out space, no locker rooms, a cement floor and is going to smell like horses. That said we also don't need a stadium downtown for the Mets. I don't trust their commitment and don't believe they amp up the attendance to make it worthwhile. IMHO that money can be used for improvements elsewhere

If you build a new stadium in a prime location (the old Kennedy Square site where the proposed SU stadium would have been) and lock them into a 25-30 year lease tied to the construction of a new park, it will be worthwhile IMO in the rehabilitation of the city and county. Of course, there are larger problems that need addressing, so there goes my point.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I mascotted for the Chiefs (hence my handle on this site) when they were still at MacArthur and I was dumbfounded that a new stadium wasn't built downtown.

It was a total mess getting it built and opened, but they put a new ballpark in downtown-ish Hartford 2 years ago. In terms of attendance and throwing off pre/post game business to the surrounding area, it has been a big success. Such a waste that Syracuse likely won't do the same.

I've been to that ballpark, the Hartford Yard Goats. It's actually really, really nice. I was there for an after work function so we had a suite near home plate on the 3rd base side. There were a couple of pay as you go lots so parking was easy. There was a full bar on the 2nd floor, all the food vendors were on the 1st level. I would love to have NBT stadium retrofitted like this park but that won't guarantee that people will show up given its location.

 

[310Pigpen]

I was in there a couple days ago at the Fair. It's a big metal shed with seating for about 1000 people and a hockey rink that has too much space around it, if you were actually thinking of this as a replacement for the War Memorial for the Crunch. SRC Arena, up at OCC, has more seating. It's clean, but it's just a cement slab floor, bathrooms and a nice entrance. That's what you get for $64 MILLION ???? Geeez, I am in the wrong business! I should be doing government work. FFS!

It’s nice but I couldn’t believe for $64 million that that’s all you get.