Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[letsgorange]

Weren't all of the projects that you listed funded by New York State money? The Micron project is a totally different beast with very little comparison to those projects.

Correct. That's the distinction I tried to make with my last sentence. The Micron project is a want / need by Micron vs NYS build it and they will come but it also being heavily subsidized by both Federal and State dollars. I was just trying to put some context on the lack of trust in NY for large projects that are tied to Government incentives.

 

[shandeezy7]

Can someone explain to me the value of these cities (Columbus OH for example) that are building all these data warehouses? Few jobs after construction with tons of water and power use. I'm not smart enough to understand the long term play.

Good question. I mean, the benefits to the construction industry are obvious, but beyond that it seems as though municipalities (through tax revenue) and utility companies are the other big winners. Sure, they create some permanent jobs too, I suppose, but yeah, doesn't seem like a huge net benefit to the common man that lives in these areas.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Good question. I mean, the benefits to the construction industry are obvious, but beyond that it seems as though municipalities (through tax revenue) and utility companies are the other big winners. Sure, they create some permanent jobs too, I suppose, but yeah, doesn't seem like a huge net benefit to the common man that lives in these areas.

It's likely a net negative for common people. Data centers coupled with the postponement or cancellation of energy projects have started to drive electricity prices higher and that will only continue.

 

[Blanko97]

It's likely a net negative for common people. Data centers coupled with the postponement or cancellation of energy projects have started to drive electricity prices higher and that will only continue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-ai-data-centers-electricity-prices/

It’s real bad

 

[PhatOrange]

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-ai-data-centers-electricity-prices/

It’s real bad

As of Jan 1st NY is going all electric on new construction and home builds. Bye bye natural gas and propane.

 

[shandeezy7]

As of Jan 1st NY is going all electric on new construction and home builds. Bye bye natural gas and propane.

Well not exactly bye bye. The 6M+ natural gas and propane customers in NYS aren't suddenly going to not exist.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Can someone explain to me the value of these cities (Columbus OH for example) that are building all these data warehouses? Few jobs after construction with tons of water and power use. I'm not smart enough to understand the long term play.

They have large Universities in the area, which feed off these job opportunities.

 

[TexanMark]

Weren't all of the projects that you listed funded by New York State money? The Micron project is a totally different beast with very little comparison to those projects.

But the mindset is the same

 

[TexanMark]

Well not exactly bye bye. The 6M+ natural gas and propane customers in NYS aren't suddenly going to not exist.

The all electric mandate on new construction is bad legislation.

You need multiple choices

 

[TexanMark]

That’s where the intel chip fab is going

We all own part of that now

Not sure I agree with the administration on that one...

 

[TexanMark]

Yup, TTM is putting the finishing touches on their new facility in Dewitt right now. $140M facility that is projected to add 400 jobs. Short drive down 481 (soon to be 81) from the Micron facility site.

Introducing the Syracuse, NY Expansion Ultra-HDI PCB Production Facility | TTM Technologies

TTM Technologies is proud to support the mission-critical needs of our defense customers with our Syracuse Expansion. Our new, state-of-the-art manufacturing facility being built in Central New York is designed to meet the growing demand for advanced printed circuit board (PCB) functionality in...

www.ttm.com

This is a very important business. They are keeping the most sensitive stuff here in Syracuse away from the spying/copy cats from foreign countries. TTM does have factories in China but it builds the older technologies there.

 

[PhatOrange]

Well not exactly bye bye. The 6M+ natural gas and propane customers in NYS aren't suddenly going to not exist.

Pretty sure I said 'new', but thanks.

 

[Orangello]

That’s where the intel chip fab is going

Maybe. 3 years on the project continues to be delayed through 2030.

 

[shandeezy7]

The all electric mandate on new construction is bad legislation.

You need multiple choices

I didn’t say I agreed or disagreed with it. Just that it’s not going to change any of the existing infrastructure.

 

[xc84]

The all electric mandate on new construction is bad legislation.

You need multiple choices

Assuming you agree that fossil fuels are finite and generate greenhouse gases when burned, what choices should we have that fit into a strategic goal of weening ourselves off of fossil fuels?

Starting with new construction is a very gradual approach and should create more incentives for innovation in this space. More work is still required on how to best generate the electricity but we can’t just wait until oil is depleted and green house gases have caused climate havoc before we make a plan.

 

[721Comstock]

Assuming you agree that fossil fuels are finite and generate greenhouse gases when burned, what choices should we have that fit into a strategic goal of weening ourselves off of fossil fuels?

Starting with new construction is a very gradual approach and should create more incentives for innovation in this space. More work is still required on how to best generate the electricity but we can’t just wait until oil is depleted and green house gases have caused climate havoc before we make a plan.

Yeah, but - the plurality (49%) of electricity used by NYS comes from fossil fuels anyway.

So is this really doing anything, other than those fossil fuels being used indirectly instead of directly by the consumers?

My electrical bills have more than doubled since Covid.
6 years ago when we first were in our current casa, electricity was under $200 / month.

Now it’s over $500 / month.

Central Hudson can eat a dumpster load of d!cks.

And we have LP for heating, so I can’t even imagine how much exorbitant these bills would be with electric heating added in.

 

[TexanMark]

Assuming you agree that fossil fuels are finite and generate greenhouse gases when burned, what choices should we have that fit into a strategic goal of weening ourselves off of fossil fuels?

Starting with new construction is a very gradual approach and should create more incentives for innovation in this space. More work is still required on how to best generate the electricity but we can’t just wait until oil is depleted and green house gases have caused climate havoc before we make a plan.

As George Bush says: New Kle UR

We need to get working on the big plant in Oswego and in the meantime build some Small Modular Reactors (SMRs). Plus electrical grids need to be upgraded.

The biggest issue with nuclear is the government constantly changes regulations and construction costs balloon and get delayed.

I just bought a mid size portable battery with solar panels to keep my fridge, freezer, wifi and lights running in event of a brownout. BTW you can still get 30% tax credit back on certain models.

If you have kids who aren't soft, encourage them to get into anything involved with power generation, electrical grid design and repair or as an electrician.

 

[rocklloyd]

As of Jan 1st NY is going all electric on new construction and home builds. Bye bye natural gas and propane.

It won’t last long, the first $1000 winter heating bill during a cold snap will start a revolt.

 

[HtownOrange]

Yeah, but - the plurality (49%) of electricity used by NYS comes from fossil fuels anyway.

So is this really doing anything, other than those fossil fuels being used indirectly instead of directly by the consumers?

My electrical bills have more than doubled since Covid.
6 years ago when we first were in our current casa, electricity was under $200 / month.

Now it’s over $500 / month.

Central Hudson can eat a dumpster load of d!cks.

And we have LP for heating, so I can’t even imagine how much exorbitant these bills would be with electric heating added in.

To add to the dilemma, imagine the first time the windmills don't work because they are frozen and the sun doesn't shine to use the solar, or the ice build up is too great for the solar panels. See Texas a few winters ago. Nuclear is the cleanest and least expensive over time but nobody wants a plant nearby. Ironically, a byproduct of nuclear energy is clean water, California, two needs, one solution.

 

[donniesyracuse]

To add to the dilemma, imagine the first time the windmills don't work because they are frozen and the sun doesn't shine to use the solar, or the ice build up is too great for the solar panels. See Texas a few winters ago. Nuclear is the cleanest and least expensive over time but nobody wants a plant nearby. Ironically, a byproduct of nuclear energy is clean water, California, two needs, one solution.

Is there a plan for where all the nuclear waste is to be stored long term or will we just continue to kick that can down the road?

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Is there a plan for where all the nuclear waste is to be stored long term or will we just continue to kick that can down the road?

• Dry cask storage:
  After several years of cooling in the pool, the older fuel is moved to dry storage casks.
  • These casks are made of steel and surrounded by concrete for added shielding.
    
    
  • They are filled with inert gas to keep the fuel cool and prevent corrosion.
    
    
  • Dry cask storage is considered a temporary, on-site solution, as there is no permanent high-level waste disposal facility currently in operation in the U.S.

So, no not really. No one wants trains with nuclear waste running through their towns even if a site was dedicated.

 

[HtownOrange]

Is there a plan for where all the nuclear waste is to be stored long term or will we just continue to kick that can down the road?

Do what the French do, recharge the rods. No waste, it's recycled. It's old technology, too, not a large learning curve. The present fuel will last the world over 1,000 years. Is it perfect, no. It is less impactful than wind mills and solar panels that end up with larger carbon footprints than natural gas and oil. Neither is recyclable nor biodegradable.

For the eventual end, bury it deep. That's the current plan.

You don't have to agree, though you should check it out. It's a good option.

 

[TexanMark]

Is there a plan for where all the nuclear waste is to be stored long term or will we just continue to kick that can down the road?

Is there a plan for old solar panels and windmills?

It is more than just spent fuel

 

[Trueblue25]

Nuclear energy’s clearly the answer. Follow the money. Look at the red and blue states beginning to race to revive and expand it.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Is there a plan for where all the nuclear waste is to be stored long term?

Yes. Hackensack, NJ.