Dino Babers

[Toga]

Agreed. For better or worse, Marrone left before the job was finished. There is no doubt that he made the team better, and took a program that was the dregs of the P5 and made them more competitive in year 1. The 2011 ups and downs are forgivable due to injuries, and we pissed away a Rutgers game that would have qualified us for three bowls in a row.

I don't think that anybody can begrudge him for leaving to take an NFL job. But as I recall, a lot of the hand wringing wasn't about his decision, but rather that the team was at a critical juncture after the 2012 season and was losing a lot of talent [in truth, the majority of the key offensive principals responsible for the prolific success experienced in 2012]. Adding to that uncertainty was the decimation of the staff.

Again, nobody begrudged him taking one of the 32 top jobs in his profession, the money associated with that, the prestige, etc. It was more about the condition that he left the team in, the staff being depleted, him leaving before the rebuild was "finished" and the results more sustainable, etc. Marrone left on a high note, but one where the team was teetering on the precipice, and could easily backslide. Guess what happened?

He decimated his alma mater's staff. Are you telling me there weren't a boatload of current/former NFL assistant coaches who weren't as good or better than some of the SU coaching staff he took with him? SU had the cream of football's available coaching elite? He couldn't have just taken a coach or two? Not like he didn't have some NFL connections.

 

[RF2044]

He decimated his alma mater's staff. Are you telling me there weren't a boatload of current/former NFL assistant coaches who weren't as good or better than some of the SU coaching staff he took with him? SU had the cream of football's available coaching elite? He couldn't have just taken a coach or two? Not like he didn't have some NFL connections.

Sure, hypothetically.

But in reality, who did he take with him to Buffalo?

 

[rrlbees]

Coming from the folks that just hired a Head Coach that took 6 assistants from Bowling Green. We don't seem to be too concerned about that though because we are on the receiving end. Can't have it both ways.

Isn't it 7 coaches? Anyways, I was hoping he'd bring a few of his offensive coaches, but was hoping he'd make a splash hire for the DC and bring in some new blood in the defensive side or keep a couple of Shafers defensive coaches. I also had hoped he'd keep a few of the administration types. Instead he blew that all up as well as brought in his QC guys and others. Hopefully it all works out, but I can't believe the best hire for everything were his guys at BG. Didn't think it was a good idea when Shafer did it and don't believe it is now. Seems like too many favors instead of looking for better candidates. I'll hope for the best.

 

[OrangePA]

Silly internet contemplations...guess I'll jump in too! Of course Syracuse is a "stepping stone" program. As long as there are bigger, more successful, more profitable programs in the country SU will always be a stepping stone program. Does anyone really think Coach P wouldn't have listened and probably left if Texas or Ohio St or Alabama had wanted him? Babers age works a little to our favor but remind me how old Coach Mac was when he stepped up to an NFL job? (61 BTW) Could the reins be handed off to the OC or another coach? Maybe. But how many of HCDB's assistants stayed at BG? My hope is that the Dome starts rocking again while HCDB is here and if he is successful enough that he gets a better offer that the powers that be realize what it was he did to be successful and finds a similar minded coach.

P had offers and turned them down.

 

[elimunelson]

Isn't it 7 coaches? Anyways, I was hoping he'd bring a few of his offensive coaches, but was hoping he'd make a splash hire for the DC and bring in some new blood in the defensive side or keep a couple of Shafers defensive coaches. I also had hoped he'd keep a few of the administration types. Instead he blew that all up as well as brought in his QC guys and others. Hopefully it all works out, but I can't believe the best hire for everything were his guys at BG. Didn't think it was a good idea when Shafer did it and don't believe it is now. Seems like too many favors instead of looking for better candidates. I'll hope for the best.

Couldn't agree more. This could blow up in his face. Honeymoon period for Babers will b whenever the UConn game ends

 

[elimunelson]

P had offers and turned them down.

Absolutely. I think Ps only hope was the Penn St gig though.

 

[CuseOnly]

Isn't it 7 coaches? Anyways, I was hoping he'd bring a few of his offensive coaches, but was hoping he'd make a splash hire for the DC and bring in some new blood in the defensive side or keep a couple of Shafers defensive coaches. I also had hoped he'd keep a few of the administration types. Instead he blew that all up as well as brought in his QC guys and others. Hopefully it all works out, but I can't believe the best hire for everything were his guys at BG. Didn't think it was a good idea when Shafer did it and don't believe it is now. Seems like too many favors instead of looking for better candidates. I'll hope for the best.

Could be 7 coaches. My point was that when Marrone left, he took most of the staff and people were pissed. Now we Hire Babers and he takes most of his staff from BGSU, I don't hear people feeling sorry for BG is all. Because we are on the receiving end.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

"but do you think Syracuse is a stepping stone hire for Syracuse"

what?

 

[Crusty]

I can have it both ways, actually.

And we are going to enjoy going so!

 

[Chip]

Could be 7 coaches. My point was that when Marrone left, he took most of the staff and people were pissed. Now we Hire Babers and he takes most of his staff from BGSU, I don't hear people feeling sorry for BG is all. Because we are on the receiving end.

Actually there were people that said they felt sorry for BG.

I'm not one of them. I only care about SU. Sucked when Marrone did it and we paid the price (not that he cares). Now hopefully it evens out and works out.

 

[CuseOnly]

Actually there were people that said they felt sorry for BG.

I'm not one of them. I only care about SU. Sucked when Marrone did it and we paid the price (not that he cares). Now hopefully it evens out and works out.

I don't feel sorry for BG, but then again I didn't care who Marrone took with him. Everyone is replaceable, not necessarily at the same skill level.

 

[Jake]

The thing that is different about Marrones departure is that he told told some people at SU that he WASN'T going to take some people that he ended up poaching. That's what pissed me off.

 

[SmilinBob]

Coaches leave when they feel an opportunity is offered and they accept it. They also get fired for not winning enough games. It's a cold business and trying to make it something else is possibly just fooling yourself. Circumstances change as you age and your perspective/needs often change as well especially when you think a situation was what you really wanted but after X amount of time, you find it really wasn't. I would like to have coaches leave with class along with AD's firing them with as much respect as well. As Jake wrote, Marrone flip flopped a bit on his staff and what he left Shafer and that did add to the sting of him leaving a bit more.

 

[Scooch]

Clearly you didn't read or comprehend my post. Everything pretty much bypassed your brain.

I comprehended it just fine, amigo. You're of the belief that he was going to leave no matter what. I wasn't disagreeing. But when Marrone talked incessantly about how coaching SU was his lifetime destiny it's not strange that people got upset when that turned out to be 4 years.

 

[Scooch]

People make calculated decisions about their careers, it's not personal...it's business. Difficult for some to separate the 2 in this fanbase. Not surprising though with the milltown mentality around here. The savior came and left, lets crucify him ferevermore.

Right, I can't separate personal and business. That's it. You figured me out. Kudos.

 

[Toga]

Could be 7 coaches. My point was that when Marrone left, he took most of the staff and people were pissed. Now we Hire Babers and he takes most of his staff from BGSU, I don't hear people feeling sorry for BG is all. Because we are on the receiving end.

Well duh

 

[Moontan]

Isn't it 7 coaches? Anyways, I was hoping he'd bring a few of his offensive coaches, but was hoping he'd make a splash hire for the DC and bring in some new blood in the defensive side or keep a couple of Shafers defensive coaches. I also had hoped he'd keep a few of the administration types. Instead he blew that all up as well as brought in his QC guys and others. Hopefully it all works out, but I can't believe the best hire for everything were his guys at BG. Didn't think it was a good idea when Shafer did it and don't believe it is now. Seems like too many favors instead of looking for better candidates. I'll hope for the best.

It's a cult, according to Dino. You can't bring in too many newbies at one time and maintain the cult the way it has been.

 

[Moontan]

Could be 7 coaches. My point was that when Marrone left, he took most of the staff and people were pissed. Now we Hire Babers and he takes most of his staff from BGSU, I don't hear people feeling sorry for BG is all. Because we are on the receiving end.

A major difference between the two was the timing of the move. BGSU was able to conduct a search in the middle of the normal coaching transition window. FHCDM's departure came afterward... leaving SU in a bad spot.

I'm also of the opinion that FHCDM didn't intend to take as many assistant coaches with him as he did. When others turned down offers to join him in Buffalo he went back to the SU assistants as his Plan B/C.

 

[Scooch]

A major difference between the two was the timing of the move. BGSU was able to conduct a search in the middle of the normal coaching transition window. FHCDM's departure came afterward... leaving SU in a bad spot. I'm also of the opinion that FHCDM didn't intend to take as many assistant coaches with him as he did. When others turned down offers to join him in Buffalo he went back to the SU assistants as his Plan B/C.

People seem to forget the timing of Marrone's departure. It was basically now-ish. Think about how many coaches have moved jobs in the past six weeks. Who's left? And that's the situation SU was stuck with. Replacing an entire staff in January.

 

[OrangeDW]

People seem to forget the timing of Marrone's departure. It was basically now-ish. Think about how many coaches have moved jobs in the past six weeks. Who's left? And that's the situation SU was stuck with. Replacing an entire staff in January.

Kinda hard to get an NFL job at Thanksgiving time though. Now is the time that those jobs become available.

 

[supp]

Isn't it 7 coaches? Anyways, I was hoping he'd bring a few of his offensive coaches, but was hoping he'd make a splash hire for the DC and bring in some new blood in the defensive side or keep a couple of Shafers defensive coaches. I also had hoped he'd keep a few of the administration types. Instead he blew that all up as well as brought in his QC guys and others. Hopefully it all works out, but I can't believe the best hire for everything were his guys at BG. Didn't think it was a good idea when Shafer did it and don't believe it is now. Seems like too many favors instead of looking for better candidates. I'll hope for the best.

It's a cult, according to Dino. You can't bring in too many newbies at one time and maintain the cult the way it has been.

Yeah, I agree with Moontan. I'll cut Babers some slack whereas Shafer doesn't get the same treatment. It's clear that Babers believes that he needs to change not only the offense at SU but the entire culture. He has a vision that Shafer did not seem to have. The lack of vision was most evident in his decisions on offensive direction. I'm sure from Babers' perspective, it's easier to carry out a vision with people you've already vetted, people you trust, and people that are equally convinced that this is the right way of doing things rather than trying to convince a bunch of holdovers of that.

With Shafer, the hires were also based on his comfort level with them, but it seemed like personal considerations mattered more than strategic considerations.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He decimated his alma mater's staff. Are you telling me there weren't a boatload of current/former NFL assistant coaches who weren't as good or better than some of the SU coaching staff he took with him? SU had the cream of football's available coaching elite? He couldn't have just taken a coach or two? Not like he didn't have some NFL connections.

He didn't owe anything to SU. His duty was to bring guys to Buffalo to help him.
Some would see it as rewarding those who helped him.

 

[CuseOnly]

I comprehended it just fine, amigo. You're of the belief that he was going to leave no matter what. I wasn't disagreeing. But when Marrone talked incessantly about how coaching SU was his lifetime destiny it's not strange that people got upset when that turned out to be 4 years.

No worries, but after his initial presser, I don't recall him speaking about it too much after that.

 

[DownTheField]

I have no problem with him bringing his own guys. They've been coaching under him and he knows what he's getting. One thing I love is that there aren't a bunch of promotions. No DC to HC, QB or WR coach to OC, etc. These guys have already coached what they're going to be coaching so they won't be learning on the job.

Yeah, I agree with Moontan. I'll cut Babers some slack whereas Shafer doesn't get the same treatment. It's clear that Babers believes that he needs to change not only the offense at SU but the entire culture. He has a vision that Shafer did not seem to have. The lack of vision was most evident in his decisions on offensive direction. I'm sure from Babers' perspective, it's easier to carry out a vision with people you've already vetted, people you trust, and people that are equally convinced that this is the right way of doing things rather than trying to convince a bunch of holdovers of that.

With Shafer, the hires were also based on his comfort level with them, but it seemed like personal considerations mattered more than strategic considerations.

 

[OrangePA]

Absolutely. I think Ps only hope was the Penn St gig though.

Incorrect.