Does the frustration of the fanbase even matter to the AD? | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Does the frustration of the fanbase even matter to the AD?

Why? You think he deserves to be fired after 1 bad year and 40+ that made him HoF?

I don’t post on the CBB side because of this nonsense. Y’all got yourselves all riled up and lost perspective.

I’m frustrated too! But c’mon. This isn’t hard. The guy built the program. We just were in the sweet 16 last year?! How does it look to fire the face of the program for 1 bad year?!
If anyone is saying he needs to be fired, that's wrong. I know JW will not fire JB.

But you and folks are in denial..yes denial that the program is stale and mediocre right now. It's hilarious that people think it's been 1 year. All because they go on a 3 game run in March does not negate the lack of success in season, the recruiting misses, the embarrassment of his public speakings and the list goes on. Unfortunately, those lil runs put a blinder on fans that "OH he got us to a sweet 16, we're still great". Like no. We have a higher standard because we are a blue chip type program. Blue chip programs don't settle on 16-12 seasons and pray they go on a sweet 16 run. As the Head Coach, this falls ALL on his shoulders...he's paid the big bucks to take this on.
He would have been gone if he was anyone else and didn't have his name on the court.
 
LOL this is the mindset that is the problem.

True dat!

We haven't played a conference game as a ranked team since 2014. We have never won more than two consecutive games in our own conference tournament, thus, never even reaching an ACCT semi-final. We've gone 8 straight years now of being a middle of the pack, middling conference team, not close to challenging for a conference title.

"One bad year."

As with anything in life, things are relative. And, folks unequivocally, will see what they want to see and believe what they choose to believe. Right, wrong or indifferent.
 
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One bad year and this fan base is ready to throw it away. (And don’t give me the steady decline crap. We’ve had several of those and weathered them back to revelence.)

JB has earned his long leash. He’s brought more value to the university and program that it can possibly give back to him. He built it, he can survive a bad season.

Simmer down.
One bad year? This is a joke, right?
 
FWIW, I have been told repeatedly by very connected people that JW definitely cares about what the fans think and fully understands the frustration. The type of pot shots being made in this and similar threads are, to be kind, misguided and uniformed. I don't necessarily expect anyone to take my assertions at face value. We are all entitled to our opinions. But, I would encourage people to look at the model that we have already seen play out with the football program. Tremendous resources and private donations have been dedicated (with more to come), obstacles to success have been identified and prioritized, directives were given to address staff and program issues, and the HC was given the budget to attract high quality additions. This was all done, with purpose and a plan, behind the scenes, without calling anyone out publicly, and without dedicating funds to a buy out.

When it comes to replacing a living legend and the face of Syracuse basketball, the issues are compounded, multifaceted and nuanced despite the heart-felt emotional reactions by some that this should be black and white. It's not. To think that JW is unaware, doesn't care, can't or refuses to do anything, is accepting of mediocrity, is only interested in cashing checks, or whatever else you guys come up with, is...misguided.

I won't pretend to know any of the details or even guess at the specifics, but I believe that contingency plans have been developed and are being adapted as events unfold. Candidates have been identified (ongoing). Difficult discussions are going on behind closed doors. And none of that will be made public by the AD, at least not during the process. JB's exit will be handled with dignity. He has earned the right to be part of the process, but is not the ultimate decision maker. Let's hope he doesn't try to force his will.
Well said...thank you.
 
One bad year and this fan base is ready to throw it away. (And don’t give me the steady decline crap. We’ve had several of those and weathered them back to revelence.)

JB has earned his long leash. He’s brought more value to the university and program that it can possibly give back to him. He built it, he can survive a bad season.

Simmer down.
ONE? Lol.
 
There is what is said in public and what is said in private. I don't believe, and have been told, that JW is not happy. Now, what can he do about it is another matter. Very sticky situation. I don't envy JW.
The AD simply should anounce a new head coach and JB retirement at the same time, end of story. JB has repeatedly said he is not the person in charge, hold him to that.
 
This year is not bad enough to force him out. It only feels like a disaster because of the standard set by the guy who raised the expectations so much.

I'm not going to lose my mind over a year of daddyball. He's not throwing Saul Smith out there

I agree with everyone pointing out the decline, I'm just saying I'm willing to suck it up because of my gratitude

Also if next year appeared better there wouldn’t be as much frustration.
Just looking at things with information available next year looks no different than this year.
 
You obviously don't pay attention to my posts. I agree we stink compared to where we used to be and where we should be. I've been critical of JB and the program for a while. That's not the argument. The argument is the national perception of pushing out a HOF NC winning coach that has had 45 consecutive winning seasons. I agree it is time for him to step aside. What I am saying is Wildhack and the university look like a jerks nationally if he is pushed out before the team actually has a losing record or maybe even multiple losing records.
This is where a mandatory retirement would be a good thing.
 

Also if next year appeared better there wouldn’t be as much frustration.
Just looking at things with information available next year looks no different than this year.
I mean, it looks different but in terms of prospects for success, possibly worse
 
One bad year and this fan base is ready to throw it away. (And don’t give me the steady decline crap. We’ve had several of those and weathered them back to revelence.)

JB has earned his long leash. He’s brought more value to the university and program that it can possibly give back to him. He built it, he can survive a bad season.

Simmer down.

I don't understand this perspective, because it doesn't seem rooted in the reality of the program's decline. It would be one thing if this were a one-off bad season, or if JB were still orchestrating 20-8 seasons, and fans were just lamenting that he'd lost a little off of his fastball.

But this ISN'T just "one bad year," and it isn't the "fan base... ready to throw it away" over a blip on the radar.

People can bury their heads in the sand all they'd like, but they can't hide from the FACT that we've had 12+ losses for 8 consecutive years. During that span, we dodged two NIT outcomes that would have tainted the record even further by opting out of the postseason in 2014, and due to COVID cancelling the 2020 season. We're perennially on the bubble. We aren't competing for ACC titles. When we play top 10 programs nowadays, we've gotten curb stomped. And now we're staring a losing record in the face, with one game to go in the regular season.

So it isn't just "one bad year." And we can't pretend that the steady decline isn't relevant, nor that the finish line isn't rapidly approaching for JB, one way or the other.

Until recently, I would have agreed wholeheartedly that JB would be able to call his own shot, and had earned that right. But we've already seen cracks in the foundation. Wildhack reportedly told him to knock it off with throwing players under the bus earlier this year. JB reportedly isn't listening much to his AC's these days. And the net result is dysfunction.

The same attributes that made Boeheim a HOF coach -- dogged stubborness, competitiveness to the point of being combative, etc. -- are now undermining him, and hurting the program. He might believe that he can pull us out of this tail spin, but the results -- garnered over an extended period of time -- suggest otherwise.

And there's more. The dynamics of the college basketball landscape are changing. NIL. Transfer portal. You can't berate players incessantly and expect them to stick around anymore.

Again, we're not talking about one bad year that happened in year 27, that fans are overreacting to. This is the CULMINATION of a lot of smaller problems that together are much bigger than a bread box.
 
This year is not bad enough to force him out. It only feels like a disaster because of the standard set by the guy who raised the expectations so much.

I'm not going to lose my mind over a year of daddyball. He's not throwing Saul Smith out there

I agree with everyone pointing out the decline, I'm just saying I'm willing to suck it up because of my gratitude
That’s a fair take.

as long as you acknowledge the decline and understand we aren’t the old Syracuse, I understand the the mindset even if I disagree
 
How long does JB want?
He doesn’t appear one year away.

I respect the man immensely. I just look at the fact of where we are in the landscape of the sport.

We are playing a different sport.
Al, my initial post was in response to the specific question you asked in the thread title.

For the record, I support the position that posters can simultaneously have immense respect for JB's HOF career and all that he means to Syracuse basketball, while at the same time question his continued ability to effectively lead the program at his age. I am one of those posters.

"How long does JB want?" I suspect that he wants to coach for as long as HE feels he can still win and has the health, energy, and desire to do so. How long should he continue to coach? That's an entirely different and much more complex question. As I said above, he has earned the right to be part of the process that determines the answer to that question, but he will not be the ultimate decision maker.
 
I don't understand this perspective, because it doesn't seem rooted in the reality of the program's decline. It would be one thing if this were a one-off bad season, or if JB were still orchestrating 20-8 seasons, and fans were just lamenting that he'd lost a little off of his fastball.

But this ISN'T just "one bad year," and it isn't the "fan base... ready to throw it away" over a blip on the radar.

People can bury their heads in the sand all they'd like, but they can't hide from the FACT that we've had 12+ losses for 8 consecutive years. During that span, we dodged two NIT outcomes that would have tainted the record even further by opting out of the postseason in 2014, and due to COVID cancelling the 2020 season. We're perennially on the bubble. We aren't competing for ACC titles. When we play top 10 programs nowadays, we've gotten curb stomped. And now we're staring a losing record in the face, with one game to go in the regular season.

So it isn't just "one bad year." And we can't pretend that the steady decline isn't relevant, nor that the finish line isn't rapidly approaching for JB, one way or the other.

Until recently, I would have agreed wholeheartedly that JB would be able to call his own shot, and had earned that right. But we've already seen cracks in the foundation. Wildhack reportedly told him to knock it off with throwing players under the bus earlier this year. JB reportedly isn't listening much to his AC's these days. And the net result is dysfunction.

The same attributes that made Boeheim a HOF coach -- dogged stubborness, competitiveness to the point of being combative, etc. -- are now undermining him, and hurting the program. He might believe that he can pull us out of this tail spin, but the results -- garnered over an extended period of time -- suggest otherwise.

And there's more. The dynamics of the college basketball landscape are changing. NIL. Transfer portal. You can't berate players incessantly and expect them to stick around anymore.

Again, we're not talking about one bad year that happened in year 27, that fans are overreacting to. This is the CULMINATION of a lot of smaller problems that together are much bigger than a bread box.
Summed up perfectly
 
The bottom line here is that Jimmy is bigger than the program, maybe he is bigger than the entire athletic department. He is not yet ready to leave, he is not yet and never will be ready to change anything on the court or off.

The younger fans can wait him out, us geezers, well, lets get into calculating life expectancies.

There is also Wildhack's bet his job factor.

Hypothetically, lets just say he could and would force Jimmy out. Jimmy still has plenty of supporters.

If the next guy doesn't turn things around IMMEDIATELY, he has lost his bet the job bet, especially if Jimmy manages to keep the Streak alive and the next guy doesn't.
 
Yes we have declined but objectively this year is worse, I don't think we should lump all unranked years together
Absolutely. As I said elsewhere, this is the lowest point yet in a long slide.

I'm not lumping all unranked years together. We can find them in other eras too. The difference is that they were blips. These last 8 years have not been.
 
In the last five years (counting this season), JAB has led Cuse to two Sweet Sixteens and a round of 64. Most pedestrian fans won't realize that from 03-04 to 07-08 was actually the worst five-year run for postseason in Boeheim's tenure with only one Sweet Sixteen and two rounds of 64 to show for it. Of course, the regular seasons were better, and we were coming off a National Championship. Plus, JAB was almost 20 years younger. However, there are many schools out there that would take three NCAA appearances in five years including two Sweet Sixteens. Sure, it's well below our expectations but mediocrity would be more along the lines of zero post season appearances.
03 to 08 had not one but 2 Big East Tournament Championships in 05 and 06. Those were a big deal. I know they followed them up with 1st rd exits to Vermont and A&M but those were big for recruiting against your rivals.

Today and for the last 8 years, we cant win more than 1 game in the conference tournament, so it gives the appearance we don't even belong anywhere near the top of this league.
 

Also if next year appeared better there wouldn’t be as much frustration.
Just looking at things with information available next year looks no different than this year.
No offense, but, yeah, I know. Who doesn't know they haven't been as good for a while?
 
Absolutely. As I said elsewhere, this is the lowest point yet in a long slide.

I'm not lumping all unranked years together. We can find them in other eras too. The difference is that they were blips. These last 8 years have not been.
I think it's going to be harder to stay good. I don't have the numbers but the shooting is so much better. There is a chance the next coach can get us back by recruiting really well. But I think the rest of basketball has gotten smarter and boeheims relative advantage in intelligence has decreased (he's as smart as ever, everyone else is less dumb)

Better three point shooting has increased parity in my opinion
 
Denny Crum is a good comparison, here is his final 8 years. I saw him in the Elite 8 at the dome in 96-97. He followed that up with 2 losing seasons and 2 tournament appearances, kind of a rollercoaster in an easier league by comparison. Does anybody remember, did he retire gracefully or forced out for Rick Pitino?

993-94LouisvilleMetro34286.82418.777.417510Reg. Season Champion; Conf. Tournament Champion; NCAA Tournament
1994-95LouisvilleMetro331914.57611.607.81Conf. Tournament Champion; NCAA Tournament
1995-96LouisvilleCUSA342212.64715.189.85121224NCAA Tournament
1996-97LouisvilleCUSA35269.74311.987.72625NCAA Tournament
1997-98LouisvilleCUSA321220.3757.909.032519
1998-99LouisvilleCUSA301911.63315.388.2824NCAA Tournament
1999-00LouisvilleCUSA311912.61314.938.7625NCAA Tournament
2000-01LouisvilleCUSA311219.3872.838.67
 
Denny Crum is a good comparison, here is his final 8 years. I saw him in the Elite 8 at the dome in 96-97. He followed that up with 2 losing seasons and 2 tournament appearances, kind of a rollercoaster in an easier league by comparison. Does anybody remember, did he retire gracefully or forced out for Rick Pitino?

993-94LouisvilleMetro34286.82418.777.417510Reg. Season Champion; Conf. Tournament Champion; NCAA Tournament
1994-95LouisvilleMetro331914.57611.607.81Conf. Tournament Champion; NCAA Tournament
1995-96LouisvilleCUSA342212.64715.189.85121224NCAA Tournament
1996-97LouisvilleCUSA35269.74311.987.72625NCAA Tournament
1997-98LouisvilleCUSA321220.3757.909.032519
1998-99LouisvilleCUSA301911.63315.388.2824NCAA Tournament
1999-00LouisvilleCUSA311912.61314.938.7625NCAA Tournament
2000-01LouisvilleCUSA311219.3872.838.67

Pushed out

 
Wow, send that to JW, he better get his stones ready for whats next
Specifically:
“He’s been here so long,” Jurich said. “He’s got a lot of friends too. Friends take care of their own friends. I understand that.”

He added: “I don’t think there’s any other way I could have handled it.”

THAT SAID...if he doesnt have a Rick Pitino in 2001 level replacement, its going to be even tougher
 

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