Dome Renovation

[dan7800]

the non-diehards that want to tailgate can go to buffalo and drink all weekend, dump mustard on pinto ron,

Hey, I am good friends with Ron.

 

[shandeezy7]

71k vs 40 to 45K.

It's still a bigger footprint than people realize. I would 100% guarantee that if a stadium were built in the Inner Harbor area, multiple parking garages would have to be built nearby. There isn't even space for 20,000 parking spaces there, I'd be willing to bet - and that's before you put a football stadium on top of at least half those spaces.

 

[GoSU96]

This project strengthens the long term health of a non profit organization which benefits the syracuse area in countless ways. The school spends $1b every year much of which flows directly into the local economy, it serves as a cultural and knowledge hub which benefits anyone who cares enough to come to campus to soak up all that is available, it's existence allows many area business owners to thrive and allows for the local development of 'new economy' businesses that require an educated work force, and it brings smart motivated people to the area who benefit the local population in myriad ways. There is nothing that syracuse has going for it that is ,ore important than their anchor university. Supporting that isn't a waste, it's a necessity.

If you don't see how the unique culture of syracuse university is continued and enhanced by this and how a move to the mall would take away from that, then I feel like you don't really understand what that place is about to the students who go there and the alumni who support the school and the athletic programs. Intangibles like brand value are worth much more than the direct economic return on an investment in further developing them. Buffett invests by looking at brand value and it's sustainability over time - this is a similar scenario. SU sports benefit the university and the university benefits the city - locals get to be a part of that but make no mistake that the sports teams are a resource of the university first and the community second, even though local fan support is crucial.

1. The university isn't going to pick up and leave, and it's not going to fail because the dome isn't overhauled top to bottom.
2. The only thing that NEEDS to be done is a new roof, everything else is to improve the experience for the people already going.
3. The primary beneficiaries should bear the cost, if your attitude is that the sports teams are a resource of the university first, then the university should finance it.

 

[Crusty]

If the overwhelming beneficiary of the investment is the school and the existing fan base, why shouldn't the school pay for it.
If the intention is to expand usage to additional events, I'm not sure how that location is going to accommodate a significant increase in the number of those events.

The logistics are difficult for the patrons and are going to be disruptive for the students.

I guess you don't see the inconsistency of your argument. You are willing to have the state pay for a chunk of concrete that goes into infrastructure, but not a chunk of concrete that goes into the dome itself. Same beneficiaries but somehow different to you.
More importantly, the university is the greatest economic driver in the region and the state is justified in supporting it in every way that is can. An investment in a new dome makes more sense than an outdoor performance center and yet nobody bitches about it.
Besides, the area near the dome can be developed as well , probably by the university itself.

Once again, Mayor Miner blew it and the state and SU went to plan B, which will be fabulous.

 

[dollarbill44]

Are there no trains available? I know you can take trains to The Link in Philly.

There is one NJ Transit light rail line. You have to drive or take a train to the Secaucus transfer station and hop on the train to MetLife. Getting to the stadium isn't a problem in that regard, but leaving is much worse than getting a bus to Skytop.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I guess you don't see the inconsistency of your argument. You are willing to have the state pay for a chunk of concrete that goes into infrastructure, but not a chunk of concrete that goes into the dome itself. Same beneficiaries but somehow different to you.
More importantly, the university is the greatest economic driver in the region and the state is justified in supporting it in every way that is can. An investment in a new dome makes more sense than an outdoor performance center and yet nobody bitches about it.
Besides, the area near the dome can be developed as well , probably by the university itself.

Once again, Mayor Miner blew it and the state and SU went to plan B, which will be fabulous.

Disagree on Miner, that other project was a pipe dream that was never happening she was just the one who got the blame for it.

 

[Cuseregular]

Disagree on Miner, that other project was a pipe dream that was never happening she was just the one who got the blame for it.

not to mention the ridiculous proposed location for it.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree building a hotel at the mall will hurt other hotels nearby to some degree. And for that reason, I don't support government help building a hotel next to the mall. It makes a lot more sense support one built near to the convention center, where it was desperately needed.

I also think if a nice hotel was built next to the mall, it would be a huge success, in part for the reasons OttoMets points out. But I think building a nice hotel that is part of the mall would make it easier for out of town people considering a stay to make that decision. It should drive more people to the mall, bring in people that would not have otherwise considering staying here, and it should drive more revenue to the mall, as well as making a nice profit on its own.

It makes sense to build it, so I think Congel will. I am kind of surprised it hasn't already happened. It should be a no-brainer...

My speculation (no knowledge here) is that Pyramid sees the demand but is counting on a public handout decreasing their investment. So they'll wait on that possibility for a little longer. Perhaps their clean-up of the Bear/Solar/Court/Clinton block was a goodwill gesture designed to grease the skids for that handout.

 

[JeremyCuse]

not to mention the ridiculous proposed location for it.

Agreed, it would have been a disaster.

 

[Millhouse]

not to mention the ridiculous proposed location for it.

everyone is so hell bent on making miner a loser here, how is she losing?

 

[Millhouse]

Hey, I am good friends with Ron.

i'm jealous and i'm not kidding.

 

[JeremyCuse]

everyone is so hell bent on making miner a loser here, how is she losing?

I think some people have but I don't think the majority does. Anyone who thinks she put the kabosh on that plan on her own isn't living in reality.

 

[Bayside44]

not to mention the ridiculous proposed location for it.

Between campus and downtown off the highway? Again, don't live there but seems logical from an outsiders point of view.

 

[Crusty]

Disagree on Miner, that other project was a pipe dream that was never happening she was just the one who got the blame for it.

SU, the county and, more importantly, the state didn't think it was a pipe dream. Syverud isn't the type of guy to associate his name or the university with a fanciful project. With respect to Miner, if she doesn't deserve the blame who does?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Between campus and downtown off the highway? Again, don't live there but seems logical from an outsiders point of view.

Next time your in town visit the proposed site, you will see why quickly.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Again, agree with a lot of this, but a little background:

My understanding is that visiting teams choose the Doubletree because it's the least offensive of the local options. In my experience, many coaches prefer a big hotel with predictable food, a Starwood/Hilton/Marriott property, some distance between campus and the hotel, some meeting space, and double rooms that aren't too cramped. They just don't want any more staff time than necessary spent on this sort of non-basketball minutiae, so they tend to be consistent.

When I was in college, this meant Marriott. If a city didn't have one, our assistant coach in charge of travel booked a Crowne Plaza (which, incidentally, highlighted one of the reasons head coaches don't like to stray from their preferred hotels: the banquet staff put out alfredo sauce [never on the pregame menu] in addition to marinara at our pregame meal at the Crowne Plaza in Worcester one time and our head coach lost his mind). Another time we were in an off-brand hotel someplace (don't remember the hotel or the city) and we had to review film in the coach's suite because the hotel didn't have meeting space with audio-visual capabilities. Again, coaches hate this.

In Onondaga County, with the only Sheraton (some teams stay here, but many won't) practically on campus, the Crowne Plaza having an odd design with tiny rooms, the Genesee Grande with no brand affiliation, and little else, the Doubletree wins: Hilton Honors points for the program, reliable meeting space, low probability of goofy students wandering in and knocking on doors or pulling fire alarms. But if Carrier Circle or downtown had a slightly nicer brand hotel, the Doubletree wouldn't get all those bookings.

they are building a new very large hotel off New venture gear drive currently. Looks to be about 250-300 rooms

 

[JeremyCuse]

SU, the county and, more importantly, the state didn't think it was a pipe dream. Syverud isn't the type of guy to associate his name or the university with a fanciful project. With respect to Miner, if she doesn't deserve the blame who does?

Syracuse was never going forward with that project for a multitude of reasons. This isn't a shot at you but the level people thought that project was close to being green lit has become warped on this site.

 

[Bayside44]

Next time your in town visit the proposed site, you will see why quickly.

I did this summer. It won't look like that if they built the thing.

It's still sorta on campus and right next to downtown. For someone who likes to walk to places it seemed fine to me.

The Nats built a stadium in basically East Berlin and it no longer looks like that either (I know Cuse isn't DC)

 

[JeremyCuse]

I did this summer. It won't look like that if they built the thing.

It's still sorta on campus and right next to downtown. For someone who likes to walk to places it seemed fine to me.

The Nats built a stadium in basically East Berlin and it no longer looks like that either (I know Cuse isn't DC)

I get what your saying but that area is not a good site. Next to downtown and kind of near campus are being generous, its a no man land. The current plan save for no update on parking and tailgating is light years better.

 

[GoSU96]

It's still a bigger footprint than people realize. I would 100% guarantee that if a stadium were built in the Inner Harbor area, multiple parking garages would have to be built nearby. There isn't even space for 20,000 parking spaces there, I'd be willing to bet - and that's before you put a football stadium on top of at least half those spaces.

You don't need 20K parking spaces for a 45K seat venue. Metlife has 28K on site for 82K. Univ of Phoenix has 14K on site parking for 63K seats, Philly has 22K for a 68K facility.

 

[Cusefan78]

I did this summer. It won't look like that if they built the thing.

It's still sorta on campus and right next to downtown. For someone who likes to walk to places it seemed fine to me.

The Nats built a stadium in basically East Berlin and it no longer looks like that either (I know Cuse isn't DC)

I didn't think that area was large enough for what they wanted to do.

 

[Millhouse]

i am slightly amused at how everyone freaked out about how miner missed a once in a lifetime, sign here right now hard sell silliness

lo and behold, ny state is still willing to spend hundreds of millions all over the place

 

[Crusty]

Syracuse was never going forward with that project for a multitude of reasons. This isn't a shot at you but the level people thought that project was close to being green lit has become warped on this site.

What reasons did the city have to turn down a half billion dollar project? I am sincerely interested.

 

[Cusefan78]

I get what your saying but that area is not a good site. Next to downtown and kind of near campus are being generous, its a no man land. The current plan save for no update on parking and tailgating is light years better.

there's are parking garages planned for the renovation. The problem with the garages is there are fire ordinances so you can't grill in the garages so any tailgaters wouldn't be using them

 

[OttoMets]

Syracuse was never going forward with that project for a multitude of reasons. This isn't a shot at you but the level people thought that project was close to being green lit has become warped on this site.

Yeah, when the main tenant (post-Gross/Cantor) had no interest in the thing, it was never going to happen.

It wasn't a real proposal, anyway, just a back-of-envelope rendering thrown out by a developer with an interest in the neighborhood.

I get what your saying but that area is not a good site. Next to downtown and kind of near campus are being generous, its a no man land. The current plan save for no update on parking and tailgating is light years better.

I agree that the current plan is better for SU and the city, but Kennedy Square is really close to campus and downtown - easy ten-minute walk from both. I'm just skeptical that it would have driven the same economic development that this proposal can. That was the wrong idea at the wrong time; the stadium would have gained more than the area would have in that transaction - better for Kennedy Square to get a more urban (academic/research/retail/residential) plan than a big football stadium.