Dome Renovation

[Millhouse]

Don't just do a drive by, spend some time in and around the area and you'll know why its a place to avoid. Key being around the area. I don't want something like this where a few blocks a way some of the cretins can make it in walking distance from the huge appartment building they house a VERY LARGE amount of s e x offenders and other criminals. Don't want it that close. And some of the other surrounding areas so close too. Dicey, to say the least.

when you buy into magical economic development stories, you want to put it in the worst place because that will spur free trade bodegas out the wazoo and make that area prosperous

it's why rochester spent a lot of money trying to get pittsford soccer moms to bring their families to Lyell Ave where the main economic activity is trading ham sandwiches for handies.

 

[Cuseregular]

Yankee stadium is blocks away from a city jail.

yeah ok...

 

[General20]

Again, agree with a lot of this, but a little background:

My understanding is that visiting teams choose the Doubletree because it's the least offensive of the local options. In my experience, many coaches prefer a big hotel with predictable food, a Starwood/Hilton/Marriott property, some distance between campus and the hotel, some meeting space, and double rooms that aren't too cramped. They just don't want any more staff time than necessary spent on this sort of non-basketball minutiae, so they tend to be consistent.

When I was in college, this meant Marriott. If a city didn't have one, our assistant coach in charge of travel booked a Crowne Plaza (which, incidentally, highlighted one of the reasons head coaches don't like to stray from their preferred hotels: the banquet staff put out alfredo sauce [never on the pregame menu] in addition to marinara at our pregame meal at the Crowne Plaza in Worcester one time and our head coach lost his mind). Another time we were in an off-brand hotel someplace (don't remember the hotel or the city) and we had to review film in the coach's suite because the hotel didn't have meeting space with audio-visual capabilities. Again, coaches hate this.

In Onondaga County, with the only Sheraton (some teams stay here, but many won't) practically on campus, the Crowne Plaza having an odd design with tiny rooms, the Genesee Grande with no brand affiliation, and little else, the Doubletree wins: Hilton Honors points for the program, reliable meeting space, low probability of goofy students wandering in and knocking on doors or pulling fire alarms. But if Carrier Circle or downtown had a slightly nicer brand hotel, the Doubletree wouldn't get all those bookings.

A Mariott was just built in Downtown Syracuse, and Hotel Syracuse is being run by Mariott with almost 300 rooms that are built to Mariott standards. There is a hotel being built in the inner harbor, another hotel being built in Carrier Circle, and there's likely to be a hotel built inside/alongside Destiny in the VERY near future.

Syracuse tourism is skyrocketing, and because of this the hotel situation in Syracuse is rapidly improving and growing. Remember that Syracuse is not going to be hosting next year's final four. If they ever do host a final four it will be ten years (or more) in the future. There is a night and day difference between Syracuse ten years ago and Syracuse now, and in another decade the difference will be even more significant.

When you project out into the future, the number of hotel rooms should not be a problem, especially when you consider that the new stadium will hold 40+ thousand fans and not the 80+ thousand fans as some of these sites do.

There is no way this proposal happens without state money, and you have to ask yourself why the state would want to pour all that money into a private university project that's not going to create much (if any) revenue that the current Dome is not already creating. Aiming to host a final four might be the answer to this question.

Just one final four scheduled in Syracuse would justify the cost of this project. If Syracuse could, say, host a final four once a decade it would be a major coup for New York state as a whole. There are zero cities the size of Syracuse that hold events as large as a final four. I can't even think of a city Syracuse's size that hosts an event the scale of an Elite 8/Sweet 16 which we did an excellent job with this last year especially. Just being able to have a conversation about this means that big exciting things are happening, and at this point I don't think you can rule anything out.

 

[Bayside44]

Don't just do a drive by, spend some time in and around the area and you'll know why its a place to avoid. Key being around the area. I don't want something like this where a few blocks a way some of the cretins can make it in walking distance from the huge appartment building they house a VERY LARGE amount of s e x offenders and other criminals. Don't want it that close. And some of the other surrounding areas so close too. Dicey, to say the least.

Eh, Nats Park was a built in the last part of DC that had sex bath houses and such and other things you describe. Even though those are gone Chip still goes to games.

 

[Bayside44]

A Mariott was just built in Downtown Syracuse, and Hotel Syracuse is being run by Mariott with almost 300 rooms that are built to Mariott standards. There is a hotel being built in the inner harbor, another hotel being built in Carrier Circle, and there's likely to be a hotel built inside/alongside Destiny in the VERY near future.

Syracuse tourism is skyrocketing, and because of this the hotel situation in Syracuse is rapidly improving and growing. Remember that Syracuse is not going to be hosting next year's final four. If they ever do hold a final four it will be ten years (or more) in the future. There is a night and day difference between Syracuse ten years ago and Syracuse now, and in another decade the difference will be even more significant.

When you project out into the future, the number of hotel rooms should not be a problem, especially when you consider that the new stadium will hold 40+ thousand fans and not the 80+ thousand fans and some of these sites do.

There is no way this proposal happens without state money, and you have to ask yourself why the state would want to pour all that money into a private university project that's not going to create much (if any) revenue that the current Dome is not already creating. Aiming to host a final four might be the answer to this question.

Just one final four scheduled in Syracuse would justify the cost of this project. If Syracuse could, say, host a final four once a decade it would be a major coup for New York state as a whole. There are zero cities the size of Syracuse that hold events as large as a final four. I can't even think of a city Syracuse's size that hosts an event the scale of an Elite 8/Sweet 16 which we did an excellent job with this last year especially. Just being able to have a conversation about this means that big exciting things are happening, and at this point I don't think you can rule anything out.

A lax Final Four is a more reasonable goal, those have gotten too big for the crowds they draw (meaning NFL stadiums)

 

[Crusty]

SU is about to announce the most important initiative since the Carrier Dome, the majority portion of which was paid for by the state, and we are quibling about location and public money. This attitude is why so many leave CNY when they are grown. The negativism is mind boggling. Our conference mates would be jumping with joy and optimism. Time to stop second guessing and complaining and get behind the Chancellor and TBOT.

 

[dollarbill44]

That sounds great, I hope that the broader development deals with the access concerns.

For an aging population of marginal fans where the home experience is as good or better than going and any difficulty, including parking from further away and walking up the hill is consideration, access is a huge issue. I think access and the time AND effort to make it to the stadium vs the home experience is as big a factor as demographic shift and much, much, much bigger factor than cost.

Why do people keep insisting that the only Dome parking is downhill from SU? I've parked in several different places for games and I've never walked uphill.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I personally thought the location sucked but I was in board with the project. You know why? I wanted the funds allocated to Syracuse. You get funds first and then you say hey governor this sight won't work perhaps we should move it. Feasibility study says the site blows so let's move it to such and such location. It was more important to get the funds earmarked for Syracuse. For those to say they don't want to spend other people's money that is just plain silly. the money will be spent whether it's in Syracuse, Utica or Albany. They don't put it back into a savings account. The bottom line is I'm sick of Syracuse getting **ked by the state. It's time for us to get our cut of the tax dollars. Buffalo, Albany, Rochester and even freaking Utica has gotten more it seems. Mayor Miner did what she thought was best, my problem With her is you pissed off the governor. Never bite the hand that feeds you. Still dumb dumb dumb

 

[retro44]

And just how do you know for a fact? The Mayor did not raise any of these issues at thed time - she just had her hand out.

Because I belong to a union and I asked questions to the right people,including the President of the NYS building TRADES. She flat out told the unions COR made it very clear that no PLA will be done and her step son is on the Board at COR,plus is a company V.P. I was at the hall one of the days she called and made it very clear no PLA. was to be done and the Mayor shot it down because COR refused to pay prevailing wages and were going to hire out of state contractors to do the work. She said no way in hell she was going to let union and non-union local labor get shut of of the bidding process will all that state money. COR'S game plan was they were going to say they will use all public money on engineering,business buyouts,infrastructure and other professional stuff AND WHEN IT WAS GOING TO BE THE ACTUAL BUILDING OF THE FACILITY THEY WERE GOING TO SAY IT WILL BE ALL PRIVATE MONEY.The Mayor knew the deal.
That facility was so low balled it was not even funny.
People who work construction up here knows how COR hires and who they hire.

 

[Crusty]

Because I belong to a union and I asked questions to the right people,including the President of the NYS building TRADES. She flat out told the unions COR made it very clear that no PLA will be done and her step son is on the Board at COR,plus is a company V.P.

People who work construction up here knows how COR hires and who they hire.

Sorry PLA?

 

[maxxyz]

What do you think is going to happen with the new dome facility. Cost is the same and financing will be the same? Edit - BTW UL does not play football in Yum Center. Not comparable.

It's absolutely comparable as a govt run venue with a college as the major tenant. The Yum Center is losing millions of dollars a year (as most municipal venues do) and is struggling to pay its bills. Both the county and the city are pointing to each other to bridge the gap.

As stated by another poster, this project was not being seriously considered. SU was just using it as a marketing tool to get fundraising support for the project they really wanted which was on campus.

 

[dollarbill44]

Metlife has a train from the city that stops right at the stadium.

Well, not quite. You have to transfer. You can take the PATH train to Hoboken and catch the train to MetLife, or you can go from Penn Station to Secaucus and transfer to MetLife. There isn't a direct line and the transfer is a little bit of a pain the arse.

 

[Millhouse]

A Mariott was just built in Downtown Syracuse, and Hotel Syracuse is being run by Mariott with almost 300 rooms that are built to Mariott standards. There is a hotel being built in the inner harbor, another hotel being built in Carrier Circle, and there's likely to be a hotel built inside/alongside Destiny in the VERY near future.

Syracuse tourism is skyrocketing, and because of this the hotel situation in Syracuse is rapidly improving and growing. Remember that Syracuse is not going to be hosting next year's final four. If they ever do host a final four it will be ten years (or more) in the future. There is a night and day difference between Syracuse ten years ago and Syracuse now, and in another decade the difference will be even more significant.

When you project out into the future, the number of hotel rooms should not be a problem, especially when you consider that the new stadium will hold 40+ thousand fans and not the 80+ thousand fans as some of these sites do.

There is no way this proposal happens without state money, and you have to ask yourself why the state would want to pour all that money into a private university project that's not going to create much (if any) revenue that the current Dome is not already creating. Aiming to host a final four might be the answer to this question.

Just one final four scheduled in Syracuse would justify the cost of this project. If Syracuse could, say, host a final four once a decade it would be a major coup for New York state as a whole. There are zero cities the size of Syracuse that hold events as large as a final four. I can't even think of a city Syracuse's size that hosts an event the scale of an Elite 8/Sweet 16 which we did an excellent job with this last year especially. Just being able to have a conversation about this means that big exciting things are happening, and at this point I don't think you can rule anything out.

i think building something for a final 4 is a very risky moon shot.

 

[retro44]

Sorry PLA?

I tell you what,Mahoney won't turn her back on the local labor here also.You will be surprised then if you think otherwise.She will again and has signed PLA'S in the very recent past and is more willing than Minor. Mock it all you want. Those dorms that was built next to the fine lot had to be raided by homeland security and know one politician will want to deal with another thing like that again.

Local labor is not happy with Minor...

 

[maxxyz]

I tell you what,Mahoney won't turn her back on the local labor here also.You will be surprised then if you think otherwise.She will again and has signed PLA'S in the very recent past and is more willing than Minor. Mock it all you want. Those dorms that was built next to the fine lot had to be raided by homeland security and know one politician will want to deal with another thing like that again. Local labor is not happy with Minor...

I think he was asking what a PLA is. Project Labor Agreement. It's an agreement during a govt bid project on what acceptable labor is for the job. Most require that local labor be used, which is good for the local economy.

 

[LAOrange]

i think building something for a final 4 is a very risky moon shot.

But not for a bowl game.

 

[dollarbill44]

when you buy into magical economic development stories, you want to put it in the worst place because that will spur free trade bodegas out the wazoo and make that area prosperous

it's why rochester spent a lot of money trying to get pittsford soccer moms to bring their families to Lyell Ave where the main economic activity is trading ham sandwiches for handies.

Mental note to self: next time going to Rochester, bring a loaf of bread and ham.

 

[Millhouse]

SU is about to announce the most important initiative since the Carrier Dome, the majority portion of which was paid for by the state, and we are quibling about location and public money. This attitude is why so many leave CNY when they are grown. The negativism is mind boggling. Our conference mates would be jumping with joy and optimism. Time to stop second guessing and complaining and get behind the Chancellor and TBOT.

lol

who cares about location, it's only a couple hundred million

when will an opportunity like this ever present itself again?!? it'll be tens of months before NY state is willing to spend money they don't have!

 

[HeaterCuse22]

A Mariott was just built in Downtown Syracuse, and Hotel Syracuse is being run by Mariott with almost 300 rooms that are built to Mariott standards. There is a hotel being built in the inner harbor, another hotel being built in Carrier Circle, and there's likely to be a hotel built inside/alongside Destiny in the VERY near future.

Syracuse tourism is skyrocketing, and because of this the hotel situation in Syracuse is rapidly improving and growing. Remember that Syracuse is not going to be hosting next year's final four. If they ever do host a final four it will be ten years (or more) in the future. There is a night and day difference between Syracuse ten years ago and Syracuse now, and in another decade the difference will be even more significant.

When you project out into the future, the number of hotel rooms should not be a problem, especially when you consider that the new stadium will hold 40+ thousand fans and not the 80+ thousand fans as some of these sites do.

There is no way this proposal happens without state money, and you have to ask yourself why the state would want to pour all that money into a private university project that's not going to create much (if any) revenue that the current Dome is not already creating. Aiming to host a final four might be the answer to this question.

Just one final four scheduled in Syracuse would justify the cost of this project. If Syracuse could, say, host a final four once a decade it would be a major coup for New York state as a whole. There are zero cities the size of Syracuse that hold events as large as a final four. I can't even think of a city Syracuse's size that hosts an event the scale of an Elite 8/Sweet 16 which we did an excellent job with this last year especially. Just being able to have a conversation about this means that big exciting things are happening, and at this point I don't think you can rule anything out.

I didn't think you could have a final four in Syracuse because if we were in it? That's why we cant be in regionals located here.

 

[Cuseregular]

Eh, Nats Park was a built in the last part of DC that had s e x bath houses and such and other things you describe. Even though those are gone Chip still goes to games.

come on guys, they ain't getting out of the jail and the bathhouses, etc. are apparetnly no longer there. This isn't DC or NY we're talking about besides, and the areas I'm referring to wouldn't be going anywhere.

 

[orange79]

I didn't think you could have a final four in Syracuse because if we were in it? That's why we cant be in regionals located here.

The FF is an exception, I believe. For example, if Seton Hall was in the FF in 96, they would have played on their home court in the Meadowlands.

 

[Bayside44]

come on guys, they ain't getting out of the jail and the bathhouses, etc. are apparetnly no longer there. This isn't DC or NY we're talking about besides, and the areas I'm referring to wouldn't be going anywhere.

Eminent domain solves a fair amount of problems.

Plus if there are 30K people walking somewhere it's hard to get mugged.

Anyway, water under the bridge.

 

[cuseguy]

A lax Final Four is a more reasonable goal, those have gotten too big for the crowds they draw (meaning NFL stadiums)

I don't think the tailgating around the Dome would please the lax folks. And I'm not so sure about an indoor Final 4.

 

[storange]

Eminent domain solves a fair amount of problems.

Plus if there are 30K people walking somewhere it's hard to get mugged.

Anyway, water under the bridge.

Alittle off topic but isnt the DC United new stadium going to be near Nats stadium

 

[Crusty]

come on guys, they ain't getting out of the jail and the bathhouses, etc. are apparetnly no longer there. This isn't DC or NY we're talking about besides, and the areas I'm referring to wouldn't be going anywhere.

The challenge is finding sites. There are few, if any, large areas in blighted older cities that don't have problems.