Dome Renovation | Page 59 | Syracusefan.com

Dome Renovation

I'm not saying that whole neighborhood would be in the direct sight line of the stadium, but there are a number of homes (some of the most expensive in the area) that are 100% in the direct sight lines of the back 9 of the Drumlins West course. This is a picture I took from that 18th tee box that you referenced. The homes across the way are part of Applecross Woods. It's a different set of residents in that area than near Manley. Not saying I agree with any of it, just that those thinking Drumlins is an easy option might be mistaken.

Yeah, any building up there would dominate the skyline. Imagine a stadium (even if it were cost-effective to dig it out and have only the upper deck above grade).
Next block from Doug Marrone's old house: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.017...4!1sODdAdvb09iuGOZw3wd4azg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (tree line dead ahead, above tennis center roof)

Over the gray house, three blocks from the site: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.022...4!1sU3Jup5rqJ7U7f0uLU5uwyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

About a mile away, north of Euclid: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.037486,-76.1139737,3a,75y,181.46h,77.59t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siOUArFSKAtzDlh4iMlU9Vw!2e0!6s//geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid=iOUArFSKAtzDlh4iMlU9Vw&output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&thumb=2&w=203&h=100&yaw=86.331276&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656 (tree line dead ahead)

Again, sight lines don't matter as much as some other externalities, but those Applecross residents didn't buy one of the few $600,000 homes in Central New York to look at a stadium wall where a green drumlin and setting sun used to be. SEQRA review does take into account "scenic views." Even if SU could force this through, it wouldn't want to burn the goodwill needed to do so.
 
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They can't just slap a non-air supported fabric up there with no structure that can support it. In addition, the overall goal is a better experience and updates. It's not just to fill the dome. Geez...even Michigan does upgrades and they don't have a problem filling their seats.

Who said no structure. ETFE would work with a light weight support structure and/or cabling, which the dome has today. It has 7 tons of steel cable holding the roof together.
 
But the question then becomes what to do with the Dome site. Does it become an income source as well. If so, does it do enough to offset the cost difference.
Put in a 1,000 room casino!

Or a massive hydroponic marijuana (excuse me, hemp) farm.
 
Who said no structure. ETFE would work with a light weight support structure and/or cabling, which the dome has today. It has 7 tons of steel cable holding the roof together.
Those cables do not support the roof. As you say, it holds the roof fabric together and provides structure to e.g. hang the scorebard. The roof (and its cables) is supported by air. In order to add a non-air-supported roof ("lightweight" or not), significant structure will need to be built around the dome... whether it is giant masts like those created for BC Place or walls that can support the roof load or some other support that works in our climate and for the chosen material. That support is where most of the money will be spent. That's the $200M. The current walls are not built to support a roof (at least not for long).

Once the support is there, for ETFE, it will require roof trusses too (besides structure to actually support the trusses).

StadiumCapture-Football-1280-600x330.jpg
 
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dooey139 said:
Gotta say, I never knew what a drumlin was until this thread prompted me to look it up. Just thought Drumlins was a cool name lol
You are not the only one.
 
The past several pages of this thread have been outstanding! I have learned quite a bit just by reading here and just wanted to send out a sincere "Thank you!" to the posters for their polite and rationale debate/discussion of this very timely and important topic. Well done, folks! Keep it up!
 
Yikes, who knew a new stadium would cost more.

Here's the thing a refurb doesn't expand the use in the facility, what additional revenue are you going to get other than marginal increase in football attendance?

The core issue is that the location is about as awful as possible for the cost that is being projected for the most ambitious update. I find it very hard to justify from both a taxpayer perspective and as a business case to drop a couple of hundred million on the dome.


Football stadiums in major many major markets are in horrific locations - yours luckily is a short walk at best from an optimal one.
 
You keep talking about "factors". What are those.

Are you saying a facility that is configurable is an easily accessible location wouldn't get more use?

How much more use are you going to get, the Dome is in use about 320 days a year.
 
You keep talking about "factors". What are those.

Are you saying a facility that is configurable is an easily accessible location wouldn't get more use?
What is this "more use" you are referring to? Do you think bands are not coming to Syracuse because they don't want to play in the dome? Do you think monster truck rallies skip Syracuse because of the dome?
The dome is a far better concert venue than almost any arena in the USA, save for professional teams' domes. It can be used 365 days/year (not effected by the weather like most stadiums). Only limitations would be not being able to book those events when SU sports are being hosted there (which would be the case with a mall stadium as well). The carrier dome gets any event that a new stadium would get. I don't know where you think this pot of gold in new events will come because they share parking lots with a mall. I also don't understand how you think building a brand new stadium (which is miles from the students, but I digress) would not cost more than a refurbishment of the current stadium, and need more revenue to break even. It's like you are being deliberately obtuse about the cost of the new facility, and at the same time pollyannish regarding the new "revenue" it can drum up, because you want better/easier parking.

Syracuse University's stadium is on Syracuse University's campus. That is amazing. Hopefully it stays that way.
 
What is this "more use" you are referring to? Do you think bands are not coming to Syracuse because they don't want to play in the dome? Do you think monster truck rallies skip Syracuse because of the dome?
The dome is a far better concert venue than almost any arena in the USA, save for professional teams' domes. It can be used 365 days/year (not effected by the weather like most stadiums). Only limitations would be not being able to book those events when SU sports are being hosted there (which would be the case with a mall stadium as well). The carrier dome gets any event that a new stadium would get. I don't know where you think this pot of gold in new events will come because they share parking lots with a mall. I also don't understand how you think building a brand new stadium (which is miles from the students, but I digress) would not cost more than a refurbishment of the current stadium, and need more revenue to break even. It's like you are being deliberately obtuse about the cost of the new facility, and at the same time pollyannish regarding the new "revenue" it can drum up, because you want better/easier parking.

Syracuse University's stadium is on Syracuse University's campus. That is amazing. Hopefully it stays that way.

Find one time that I said the cost of a brand new facility would be the same or less than a refurb. Tomcat was the one who said that given the circumstances it was likely to be close.

I have no problem with the dome staying where it is. And personally if all they do is replace the roof that is fine. That way they aren't wasting money.

But investing $250M or so to do a major overhaul at that location is stupid. If the school can come up with the cash to do it, good for them. If they finance it, good luck generating the cash flows to pay it back. If the state is donating the money, it's ridiculous.
 
Gotta say, I never knew what a drumlin was until this thread prompted me to look it up. Just thought Drumlins was a cool name lol
I thought it was like a pierogi.
 
If the school can come up with the cash to do it, good for them. If they finance it, good luck generating the cash flows to pay it back. If the state is donating the money, it's ridiculous.
Then the same goes for new stadium in a TBD/to be purchased/to be approved site (except the investment is even larger).
 
Every telecast from the Dome always includes marvelous shots of the campus, its students, and its buildings. This wonderfully positive publicity(plus the nostalgic commentary by Newhouse grads who frequent the announcers booth) is invaluable and unmatched by any other school. If the Dome is moved, this is lost. Don't move. Just replacing the current roof is fine with me.
 
Even if the only consideration were ROI, renovation is still the better option:

1. The figures I've heard mentioned for a new stadium (big enough for FB) exceed $500m (that's probably conservative). Using this as a rough capital cost, it doesn't appear that the revenue streams necessary to support a public investment of that scale could come from SU tickets alone. The numbers don't add up. Our peak attendance historically has been about 50k. Even assuming we get all those fans to return (and SU agrees to abandon its "on-campus Dome" brand), substantial additional revenue would still have to come from public events at higher volume than the Dome can provide (concerts, monster jams, wrestling, semi-pro teams and the like). With those revenues plus concessions and interior advertising, a new building could be done but it would take 40-50 years --possibly exceeding the building's life-span -- to repay $500+M plus interest (let alone generate an ROI). That's assuming income and operating expense projections are realistic (See the KFC Yum Center for a counter-example). Either way, the accelerated public event cycle needed to generate that kind of revenue would crowd out unprofitable University activities (practices and non-revenue-generating sports). These are just some of the concerns that make an off-campus option seem impractical and unaffordable;

2. There has been no serious consideration, or even a mention that I've heard, of demolishing the Dome. Accordingly, if it's to continue operating, like any building constructed in the early 80's it requires a new roof and other updates to remain attractive to fans and recruits. The quality and scale of the renovation will determine cost, but even if it's $250M or more - at currently low interest rates it could be partially paid for now and the rest bonded at half of the term of new facility. The U obviously will kick in some ($80m?). I would expect NYS to pony up most of the rest, less $20-30 million from corporate sponsors (the Yum center got 37M for naming rights). If those estimates are in the ball park, the State's contribution could be $150-175M. That is hardly a scandalous range for a facility that cost only $26M and has been a community magnet for 3 decades (until recently). NYS spends money all the time to lure private companies and support development projects that don't create anywhere near the Dome's annual economic impact. Therefore, renovating the Dome properly ... to upgrade FB/BB facilities and extend the Dome's benefits for another 20-30 years ... is a smarter fiscal path than underfunding (i.e., wasting) the facility as an asset AND THEN risking an additional $500+M on a new multipurpose public forum in the City of Syracuse;

3. In the future, if there is an independent need for a public complex at a regionally-accessible site, fine. Build something at the mall, or near the state fairgrounds. That doesn't have to involve SU. Local leaders would have to get on board (good luck), and make a business case to the State. So far that hasn't worked. If stkeholders eventually agree and NYS funds it, the authority can schedule all the concerts and monster jams it wants. In the meantime, SU's facility (roof) is not only more urgent, after 35 productive years it stands a better chance of rewarding taxpayers than a half-billion dollar public project.
 
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I can't understand why we would want to connect the Dome to Destiny (a property that isn't doing well) or an outdoor amphitheater used 4 months a year, both of which happen to be miles away from and not readily accessible from the core of the University.

This would be the 2016 version of the baseball stadium and we all know how that turned out...
You must be a current or former student.

The train is capable of picking anyone up from near the Fine Lot and V.A., bringing you directly to Armory Square, Destiny, the train and bus stations. So you would be wrong.
 
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You must be a current or former student.

The train is capable of picking anyone up from near the Fine Lot and V.A., bringing you directly to Armory Square, Destiny, the train and bus stations. So you would be wrong.


Trains are expensive.
 

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