Duke's Jalen Johnson will forgo remainder of season, enter NBA Draft

[Dcuse]

If a fan thinks he is more invested than a player who has worked his whole life at a sport, continues to practice/play games, etc, then we’re just going to disagree.

us sitting home having a beer and watching the game and posting on a message board and thinking that we’re more invested in the sport is hilarious.

if this all makes you mad at the sport, watch the NBA. No pretending geology 105 is super important. Nets/Suns just had an insane game. Great entertainment.

Well if a kid just walks out on his team when they are scrapping for a tournament bid then I would say the fan who invests his time,money and passion every year in unison with a busy life trying to feed his family IS more invested. You have such a sad outlook on this.

 

[djcon57]

The only way to adjust is revoke the scholarship and have them walk naked through the streets Game of Thrones style. Anyone supporting this move is blind to honor and integrity. Finish the season for gods sake.

im not supporting it, per se. I’m just not blind to reality. It’s going to happen if you like it or not

 

[MikeSU02]

Well if a kid just walks out on his team when they are scrapping for a tournament bid then I would say the fan who invests his time,money and passion every year in unison with a busy life trying to feed his family IS more invested. You have such a sad outlook on this.

You donating to his retirement fund if he ruptures an Achilles before the draft?

If not, I'll gladly keep my player-friendly outlook and feel great about myself.

 

[CuseCPT]

The whole system is bizarre if you step back and look at it. Kids are asked to hold onto a winning lottery ticket for a couple years in exchange for making other people rich, being funneled into the easiest classes that won't interfere with practice, and whatever perks of being the big man on campus they are able to get. All the while hoping they don't lose that ticket or have it stolen from them.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Someone wrote earlier that both sides are right on this one, and I agree. Cbb is not puppy-dogs & rainbows, its a $billion business. The labor is now exercising their rights within the rules btw, and taking control of their own means of production. "Student athlete" when it comes to the high-revenue sports, is nothing more than a convenient marketing term to placate the gullible. JMHO
Let's not kid ourselves- if Duke was playing for a top seed this kid doesn't go anywhere. Because the kid would realize that being on a winning team that's fighting for championships increases his exposure and is good for his brand, just like it would be for Dukes. But if he did choose to opt-out in that scenario, It'd be easier to understand folks being more upset.
This was a business decision, period. Duke is right to be miffed for his leaving the team, and the kid is right to weigh the pros and cons and make the move. And this won't affect his stock in the least, IMO. Why? Because the NBA for all its other faults, recognizes first and foremost that its just business. Its the NCAA that tries to play both sides against the middle.
If you wanna prevent this kinda thing from happening, let those kids who don't want to go to college go straight to the NBA. As long as a team is willing to pay them, why not? That's pure unadulterated capitalism- let the market decide.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You donating to his retirement fund if he ruptures an Achilles before the draft?

If not, I'll gladly keep my player-friendly outlook and feel great about myself.

The whole system is bizarre if you step back and look at it. Kids are asked to hold onto a winning lottery ticket for a couple years in exchange for making other people rich, being funneled into the easiest classes that won't interfere with practice, and whatever perks of being the big man on campus they are able to get. All the while hoping they don't lose that ticket or have it stolen from them.

Amen.

 

[Dcuse]

You donating to his retirement fund if he ruptures an Achilles before the draft?

If not, I'll gladly keep my player-friendly outlook and feel great about myself.

I'm donating to the local economy that is supported by the very thing you want the kids to walk away from. But by all means continue to feel good about yourself.

 

[djcon57]

I'm donating to the local economy that is supported by the very thing you want the kids to walk away from. But by all means continue to feel good about yourself.

insert w t meme

 

[MikeSU02]

I'm donating to the local economy that is supported by the very thing you want the kids to walk away from. But by all means continue to feel good about yourself.

Yeah, that's what I figured. And I will.

 

[Melancer46]

I just don't think it is. If you aren't going to pay these guys, where both sides clearly know they aren't there for school, you are taking a chance. I don't care if he gets to go to Geology 105 for free and can get all the Sbarro's in the world on his food card.

Again, I don't think Jalen's the right example for this since this relationship was fractured from the get go and this was the natural end result.

In general, I'm fine if the top guys drop out for the draft. It's the chance you take as a big time program/coach. These guys have been getting used by adults since they were little kids once their prowess was able to be measured in rankings.

You want to drop out to train for the draft and anger Coach K, so be it. You have to look out for yourself, first and foremost. It's not like his teammates didn't know what's up.

That's all well and good, but I will not stand for Sbarro slander. All you can eat Sbarro is fair value.

 

[rhcuse]

Try the Stromboli.


Joe knows.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If a fan thinks he is more invested than a player who has worked his whole life at a sport, continues to practice/play games, etc, then we’re just going to disagree.

us sitting home having a beer and watching the game and posting on a message board and thinking that we’re more invested in the sport is hilarious.

if this all makes you mad at the sport, watch the NBA. No pretending geology 105 is super important. Nets/Suns just had an insane game. Great entertainment.

Just take off your philosopher hat for a minute.

If it becomes the norm for people to quit the sport just as they're reaching the playoffs then that sport is on thin ice with the fans.

It's not about my personal sacrifice, it's about our emotional commitment as fans. How much money are you going to spend on season tickets or traveling to away games or the NCAA tournament, if your best player or two might choose not to play?

Networks pay lots and lots of money to show people stars players and top teams. If Duke and UNC and Kentucky and Kansas all start losing their best player or two in February every year because they don't want to get hurt before the draft, the sport is going to suffer badly.

You build up a star all season long, if you are ESPN, for example, and the Zion Williamson or Anthony Davis or whoever the top 5 draft choices project to be all say "eh, no thanks, I've done enough to earn my draft spot and I don't want to get hurt. Good luck to the rest of you guys and thanks for the platform to promote myself at your expense."

 

[maxxyz]

Just take off your philosopher hat for a minute.

If it becomes the norm for people to quit the sport just as they're reaching the playoffs then that sport is on thin ice with the fans.

It's not about my personal sacrifice, it's about our emotional commitment as fans. How much money are you going to spend on season tickets or traveling to away games or the NCAA tournament, if your best player or two might choose not to play?

Networks pay lots and lots of money to show people stars players and top teams. If Duke and UNC and Kentucky and Kansas all start losing their best player or two in February every year because they don't want to get hurt before the draft, the sport is going to suffer badly.

You build up a star all season long, if you are ESPN, for example, and the Zion Williamson or Anthony Davis or whoever the top 5 draft choices project to be all say "eh, no thanks, I've done enough to earn my draft spot and I don't want to get hurt. Good luck to the rest of you guys and thanks for the platform to promote myself at your expense."

I’m not sure that anything about this season will become the norm. If a player does this next year, he loses his scholarship to go with being labeled a quitter.

Plus in a normal season the tournaments are the biggest marketing tool a player has. If Duke was a tournament team this year it’s unlikely Jalen opts out.

 

[Newhouser]

Players at the highest levels care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the front. The fans have the opposite view. Always been that way just becoming more obvious now.

 

[Alsacs]

The kid should have just faked an injury said he rolled an ankle. Duke would remain quiet like they are now anyway and this becomes the nothing burger it should be.

Johnson wants to go pro and realizes Duke is done. He is quitting his teammates but people have outlined why it doesn’t matter.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The kid should have just faked an injury said he rolled an ankle. Duke would remain quiet like they are now anyway and this becomes the nothing burger it should be.

Johnson wants to go pro and realizes Duke is done. He is quitting his teammates but people have outlined why it doesn’t matter.

According to Duke fans he did that when he “hurt” his foot.

 

[Hoo's That]

{snip}
If you wanna prevent this kinda thing from happening, let those kids who don't want to go to college go straight to the NBA. As long as a team is willing to pay them, why not? That's pure unadulterated capitalism- let the market decide.

"One and done" is a creation of the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement with the Players Assn, not the NCAA. I've always looked at it as the owners' "Help keep us from drafting another Kwame Brown" clause in the Agreement. Everyone in basketball above the middle school level will benefit when OAD is gone. I don't watch the NBA at all, it's meaningless to me if a player goes there straight from HS. I didn't miss not seeing Kevin Garnett and I don't miss not seeing LeBron James, Put me in the group that cares more about the name on the front of the jersey than the one on the back.

 

[MikeSU02]

Just take off your philosopher hat for a minute.

If it becomes the norm for people to quit the sport just as they're reaching the playoffs then that sport is on thin ice with the fans.

It's not about my personal sacrifice, it's about our emotional commitment as fans. How much money are you going to spend on season tickets or traveling to away games or the NCAA tournament, if your best player or two might choose not to play?

Networks pay lots and lots of money to show people stars players and top teams. If Duke and UNC and Kentucky and Kansas all start losing their best player or two in February every year because they don't want to get hurt before the draft, the sport is going to suffer badly.

You build up a star all season long, if you are ESPN, for example, and the Zion Williamson or Anthony Davis or whoever the top 5 draft choices project to be all say "eh, no thanks, I've done enough to earn my draft spot and I don't want to get hurt. Good luck to the rest of you guys and thanks for the platform to promote myself at your expense."

I don't think it's a philosopher hat. I think it's just stripping away the emotion from how we view college basketball.

The very top guys are known before they ever step foot on campus and them using a college as much as a college uses them won't change their draft status, and that is all that matters to them. Whether it's Kuminga and Green in the G-League or Jalen Johnson barely playing for K or for LaMelo going to the NBL, it's all in service of getting to the NBA.

These guys don't need Duke or Kentucky to build them up. Emoni Bates does not need Izzo and MSU, I can assure you.

College football players are already doing this quite a bit with bowl games. There was debate about Zion coming back after he got injured at Duke. It's not that far off.

If the networks want to show the PBA tour instead of college basketball because a few guys drop out to train for the draft from Kansas or Duke, go ahead. But I'm guessing they'll deal with it.

 

[DoctorBombay]

"One and done" is a creation of the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement with the Players Assn, not the NCAA. I've always looked at it as the owners' "Help keep us from drafting another Kwame Brown" clause in the Agreement. Everyone in basketball above the middle school level will benefit when OAD is gone. I don't watch the NBA at all, it's meaningless to me if a player goes there straight from HS. I didn't miss not seeing Kevin Garnett and I don't miss not seeing LeBron James, Put me in the group that cares more about the name on the front of the jersey than the one on the back.

Fair enough. And the NBA is not shedding any tears over OAD since it gives them a year to evaluate & keep feeding the machine with future stars.
This mutual hypocrisy of "You give this kid a stage so we can evaluate his worth, and in return you help protect us from ourselves", is what its all about. If the NBA was serious they'd set up a baseball/EPL-type model where players are in training at a young age, go through the ranks, and then brought up to the Association when ready, y'know...like what the G-League is supposed to be about?
Instead they do this song-and-dance with universities trying to justify an exploitative model that's been obsolete for years.
The courts are getting more involved now so who knows where it will end up but in terms of power, the low man on the totem-pole are still the players. Again, I have no quarrel w/ Jalen Johnson exercising what little power he has to better himself and his family. If the shoe was on the other foot, Duke or other universities would do whatever benefits them first, not the player.

 

[MikeSU02]

Players at the highest levels care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the front. The fans have the opposite view. Always been that way just becoming more obvious now.

I agree with this, but I don't think it's framed correctly. It's that fans care about the program and high level players care about the NBA. It's not a bad selfishness, it's a focus on what the goal is.

It's tough, as a fan, to understand that these guys are just in a short-term 'we're going to use each other' for a semester or so before they go on to the NBA. It's not personal, but it feels personal.

 

[MikeSU02]

Fair enough. And the NBA is not shedding any tears over OAD since it gives them a year to evaluate & keep feeding the machine with future stars.
This mutual hypocrisy of "You give this kid a stage so we can evaluate his worth, and in return you help protect us from ourselves", is what its all about. If the NBA was serious they'd set up a baseball/EPL-type model where players are in training at a young age, go through the ranks, and then brought up to the Association when ready, y'know...like what the G-League is supposed to be about?
Instead they do this song-and-dance with universities trying to justify an exploitative model that's been obsolete for years.
The courts are getting more involved now so who knows where it will end up but in terms of power, the low man on the totem-pole are still the players. Again, I have no quarrel w/ Jalen Johnson exercising what little power he has to better himself and his family. If the shoe was on the other foot, Duke or other universities would do whatever benefits them first, not the player.

This is why they started G-League Ignite and have been making strides on two-way contracts, affiliates, salaries, etc.

They are doing exactly what you want them to do and it's already happening. G-League Ignite has had at least two games nationally televised. Kuminga has been beasting and his stock is rising.

 

[DoctorBombay]

This is why they started G-League Ignite and have been making strides on two-way contracts, affiliates, salaries, etc.

They are doing exactly what you want them to do and it's already happening. G-League Ignite has had at least two games nationally televised. Kuminga has been beasting and his stock is rising.

Agreed. And personally, I think it will only make the college game better.
As cbb fans we are emotionally invested in our programs. In spite of our good results w/ OAD’s Melo, Mali, & Ennis, for example -I’d still rather have a 2-3 year player that grows and develops instead of the UK/Duke OAD model.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't think it's a philosopher hat. I think it's just stripping away the emotion from how we view college basketball.

The very top guys are known before they ever step foot on campus and them using a college as much as a college uses them won't change their draft status, and that is all that matters to them. Whether it's Kuminga and Green in the G-League or Jalen Johnson barely playing for K or for LaMelo going to the NBL, it's all in service of getting to the NBA.

These guys don't need Duke or Kentucky to build them up. Emoni Bates does not need Izzo and MSU, I can assure you.

College football players are already doing this quite a bit with bowl games. There was debate about Zion coming back after he got injured at Duke. It's not that far off.

If the networks want to show the PBA tour instead of college basketball because a few guys drop out to train for the draft from Kansas or Duke, go ahead. But I'm guessing they'll deal with it.

Just pretend for a minute that you're not a player who is "looking out for what's best for him".

If a team sells tickets, and the best players quit as you approach the end of the season, how do you feel about that if you are a season ticket holder?

If you are a sports / broadcasting network, and the biggest 5 or 10 players in the sport, who you have promoted all season long, quit just as the playoffs are starting, how is that going to go over?

I just got a refund on my cable bill last fall because broadcast rights holders demanded money back for the lack of broadcast product from various sports leagues.

How would you have felt if Melo had decided in early March 2003 to sit out the rest of the season to avoid injury?

This is not an abstract issue. Leagues are going to lose fans if this becomes commonplace.

Loss of fans (or loss of eyeballs) means loss of revenue, first to the broadcaster, but then to the program or franchise, who loses broadcast rights fees.

We are only at the very beginning of this trend. Saying "quite a few" college football players did it is not really accurate. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, all those teams had almost all of their star players for the football playoffs. Trevor Lawrence didn't sit out at Clemson.

 

[MikeSU02]

Just pretend for a minute that you're not a player who is "looking out for what's best for him".

If a team sells tickets, and the best players quit as you approach the end of the season, how do you feel about that if you are a season ticket holder?

If you are a sports / broadcasting network, and the biggest 5 or 10 players in the sport, who you have promoted all season long, quit just as the playoffs are starting, how is that going to go over?

I just got a refund on my cable bill last fall because broadcast rights holders demanded money back for the lack of broadcast product from various sports leagues.

How would you have felt if Melo had decided in early March 2003 to sit out the rest of the season to avoid injury?

This is not an abstract issue. Leagues are going to lose fans if this becomes commonplace.

Loss of fans (or loss of eyeballs) means loss of revenue, first to the broadcaster, but then to the program or franchise, who loses broadcast rights fees.

We are only at the very beginning of this trend. Saying "quite a few" college football players did it is not really accurate. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, all those teams had almost all of their star players for the football playoffs. Trevor Lawrence didn't sit out at Clemson.

Im not disagreeing with you. At least I don’t think so.

My point is that the NCAA just has to deal with it.

However, with the G-League getting more established and the OAD likely going away, it will probably take care of itself, to an extent.

Until then, yeah, I’m fine if everyone has to sweat a little if 2 or 3 guys peace out to train. they’ve been getting these talented guys for free. If they need to find alternative solutions, tough cookies.

If Melo had left in March, I would have said thanks for the memories, thanked my deity of choice that Deshaun wasn’t on the team and rooted for Hak, GMac et al.

 

[shu 49]

As a nba scout I don’t want that kid on my TEAM. That’s a kid that is always gonna do him. As a sports guy this stuff drives me nuts. His choice but it will hurt him one way or the other.