Few Thoughts and theories on recent stuff | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Few Thoughts and theories on recent stuff

I'll never understand points like your 2nd one. This has been an irrelevant program for close to a decade now. What exactly do you think gets worse? We can continue to see this team finish in the bottom half of the conference? Fail to make the postseason? Fail to improve recruiting? What gets worse and why?

This is where the orange colored glasses come in. The list of college basketball programs that have been relevant in most years of the last decade is in the single digits. That’s barely hyperbole, if it is at all.

We have a warped perception of what relevance is and how other programs measure up to it.

We haven’t been the Syracuse we are accustomed to being. No argument there. But things can absolutely 100% get worse. We could go out and get a legitimate $5MM/yr. coach and have “worse” squarely in the sights.

We’re all quibbling over one more season.
 
Point one. You want to see how he does with a team that includes zero new players currently and without his two seniors who score 41% of the average points we score per game. Really? Why? Do you think he’ll do better next year without a center who can score? It’s done. It’s over. Time to start the next chapter.

Agree 100%

yeah one can draw a logical conclusion how it will turn out.
 
This is where the orange colored glasses come in. The list of college basketball programs that have been relevant in most years of the last decade is in the single digits. That’s barely hyperbole, if it is at all.

We have a warped perception of what relevance is and how other programs measure up to it.

We haven’t been the Syracuse we are accustomed to being. No argument there. But things can absolutely 100% get worse. We could go out and get a legitimate $5MM/yr. coach and have “worse” squarely in the sights.

We’re all quibbling over one more season.
This isn't about "1 more season". This is about the depths to which this program has fallen. Since Hop left (when Jim was supposed to step away) in the six seasons they have 2 wins in the tournament and more importantly, only been to the tourney twice. Two times. And I'm counting the Covid season as missing because they weren't making it. They haven't won a conference tournament since joinging the ACC. They haven't been ranked in 4 years. They don't have anyone currently on an NBA roster outside of Jerami Grant. This program is IRRELEVANT in the college basketball landscape.
Oh, and Saint Peter's has more tourney wins since 2017 than Cuse.
 
The list of college basketball programs that have been relevant in most years of the last decade is in the single digits. That’s barely hyperbole, if it is at all.

We have a warped perception of what relevance is and how other programs measure up to it.
Define "relevance". Otherwise, I can't show you how wrong you are about the single digits.
 
It could get much worse than this. We could be a conference bottom feeder and not being getting anything but 2-3 star kids. I'm not saying Boeheim should come back but the idea that we couldn't take a step further down is insane to me.
I think being fearful of the change because maybe it could get worse is insane to me. Let's not take a shot at becoming relevant again because maybe we can become slightly less irrelevant than we currently are.

If we just give JB next year then he can officially make it a full decade without finishing the year in the top 25, garnering a decent NCAA seed, having less than 13 losses*, being excited instead of nervous on selection Sunday. That sounds lovely. Nice big even number.
 
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This isn't about "1 more season". This is about the depths to which this program has fallen. Since Hop left (when Jim was supposed to step away) in the six seasons they have 2 wins in the tournament and more importantly, only been to the tourney twice. Two times. And I'm counting the Covid season as missing because they weren't making it. They haven't won a conference tournament since joinging the ACC. They haven't been ranked in 4 years. They don't have anyone currently on an NBA roster outside of Jerami Grant. This program is IRRELEVANT in the college basketball landscape.
Oh, and Saint Peter's has more tourney wins since 2017 than Cuse.

How is talking about Boeheim staying one more season not about one more season?
 
This is where the orange colored glasses come in. The list of college basketball programs that have been relevant in most years of the last decade is in the single digits. That’s barely hyperbole, if it is at all.

We have a warped perception of what relevance is and how other programs measure up to it.

We haven’t been the Syracuse we are accustomed to being. No argument there. But things can absolutely 100% get worse. We could go out and get a legitimate $5MM/yr. coach and have “worse” squarely in the sights.

We’re all quibbling over one more season.
I know one thing. It's getting worse under JB. We have gone from competing for protected seeds to the bubble to not even competing for the NIT.
 
How is talking about Boeheim staying one more season not about one more season?
LOL I mean, if you want to gloss over what's happened with this program and just look at "hey, what's one more season." By all means, have at it. I think myself (and others) aren't concerned with "1 more season". It's a way bigger issue. But hey, let him have at it. I'm sure next year's recruiting class will turn everything around for Big Jim...
 
Let’s assume JB has a contract through next season with a $10mm buyout after this one. That’s a quite reasonable assumption; it aligns with what has been said about Dino’s contract. What do posters think SU should do?
Pounding the table and saying “he has to retire“ doesn’t qualify as a realistic response. Also he has not said or done anything which would remotely approach grounds for termination for cause.
 
It could get much worse than this. We could be a conference bottom feeder and not being getting anything but 2-3 star kids. I'm not saying Boeheim should come back but the idea that we couldn't take a step further down is insane to me.
This is very true. We could be a LOT worse, in the grand scheme of things. We've been a .500 team in conference over the past 9 years (which is really mind-blowing). Pitt, for example, has been FAR worse. We could end up like Pitt.

Still, I don't think you can avoid doing things because the outcome might be worse than where you are at the moment. Not in sports, and often not in life.

It'd be one thing if this was just a downturn for a couple years. Suggesting we move on from Boeheim in, say, 2008 would've been insane.

But is there really much evidence to suggest that JB is about to lead a program resurgence? Are we about to replicate the run we had from 2009 to 2014? Again, it has been NINE years as a .500 ACC team. We're on our way to missing the tourney entirely for the 5th time in those 9 years.

JB is gonna be gone soon enough, he's doesn't have years of coaching ahead of him. The program has to face the future at some point, and it seems like we really should do it soon.
 
Define "relevance". Otherwise, I can't show you how wrong you are about the single digits.

I did your homework for you. The number is 23. Having looked at all of the teams one would think to look at in the power conferences and including the handful of midmajors who have made names for themselves, the list of teams that would count as more relevant than us is 23. Since it's a nebulous argument, the criteria was appropriately as nebulous.

The methodology was basically this:
- The 14-15 season was the starting point. I assume most count this as the beginning of the end and it somewhat lines up with the 'almost a decade' comment in the post I replied to.

Then it's sort of a waterfall of criteria.

- NCAAT appearances is the primary qualifier. They have to have 4 or more. If just 4, like us, they had to be a damn impressive 4. Ones with 5 were pushed into the next bucket to see if they should be included or not. The obvious idea behind this is 5 tournaments with mostly first round exits (observed to be the case with these teams) isn't much, if at all, more relevant than 4 tournaments with 3 'deep' runs.

- Records. Of the teams not clearly ahead in NCAAT success, simply, their records were observed. I don't have all day for this, so I eyeballed it. Teams that looked like they were winning 20+ games most of the time, got the nod (power conference teams that is, nobody cares about midmajors winning 20 or 24 games. Play somebody).

- Top 25 rankings. Looked at in conjunction with records. Seasons that peaked higher than ours were given more weight, but I wasn't giving teams 'relevance' credit if they worked their way up to a couple seasons in the top 25 surrounded by 14 and 16 win seasons.


Fun observation: You would all be gobsmacked at how common losing seasons are for 'successful' programs.

So, I'll say with confidence and having analyzed this with deference to ranking teams ahead of us, that 23 programs can say they've been more relevant since 2015. That doesn't make us 24th; we're in that next tier of about a dozen teams. I'm not interested in splitting those hairs. And I'm not posting my list, for this very reason. I'd rather put a gun in my mouth and blow my brains out than argue about if team xyz belongs ahead of us.

To the point I made about teams since 2014 being irrelevant for most of those years, the number is not single digits. It appears to be about 14, depending on how that's defined. If a team goes to the Sweet 16, then has a losing season, then goes back to the tournament, is that 2 or 3 years of relevance? IDK, but the answer would also necessitate that we adjust Syracuse's relevance accordingly. That was a rhetorical question, btw. I'm not interested in the answer.
 
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Let’s assume JB has a contract through next season with a $10mm buyout after this one. That’s a quite reasonable assumption; it aligns with what has been said about Dino’s contract. What do posters think SU should do?
Pounding the table and saying “he has to retire“ doesn’t qualify as a realistic response. Also he has not said or done anything which would remotely approach grounds for termination for cause.
If we gave him a contract with a 10mm buyout, Wildhack should be fired
 
Let’s assume JB has a contract through next season with a $10mm buyout after this one. That’s a quite reasonable assumption; it aligns with what has been said about Dino’s contract. What do posters think SU should do?
Pounding the table and saying “he has to retire“ doesn’t qualify as a realistic response. Also he has not said or done anything which would remotely approach grounds for termination for cause.
There is no chance in hell that JB has a $10M buyout.
 
LOL I mean, if you want to gloss over what's happened with this program and just look at "hey, what's one more season." By all means, have at it. I think myself (and others) aren't concerned with "1 more season". It's a way bigger issue. But hey, let him have at it. I'm sure next year's recruiting class will turn everything around for Big Jim...

But we're all operating from the point of view that things have not been good. Nobody who is arguing for or against one more year has argued that things have been chill and cool and good.
 
This isn't about "1 more season". This is about the depths to which this program has fallen. Since Hop left (when Jim was supposed to step away) in the six seasons they have 2 wins in the tournament and more importantly, only been to the tourney twice. Two times. And I'm counting the Covid season as missing because they weren't making it. They haven't won a conference tournament since joinging the ACC. They haven't been ranked in 4 years. They don't have anyone currently on an NBA roster outside of Jerami Grant. This program is IRRELEVANT in the college basketball landscape.
Oh, and Saint Peter's has more tourney wins since 2017 than Cuse.
How about the losing streak to Colgate
 
But we're all operating from the point of view that things have not been good. Nobody who is arguing for or against one more year has argued that things have been chill and cool and good.
Sooooo is your argument things will get better with one more year? Cause I can assure you from my viewpoint the trend line is down and it won't get any better with one more year. Promise you that.
 
I think he’s confused on why buyouts are put into contracts. There’s no concern that JB is leaving
Not exactly. I’ve negotiated them and had one myself.
 
But we're all operating from the point of view that things have not been good. Nobody who is arguing for or against one more year has argued that things have been chill and cool and good.
One more year is basically a throw away for a participation trophy. His throw away year was last year. He should not get 3 throw away seasons.
 

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