First game and a half

[oTTo113445]

We shot over 50% and 36 from three today, and went on a 14-0 run in the second half, pretty good.

 

[UpstateSM]

This isn’t a real good Colgate team. They only beat brown by 2 and brown stinks. Colgate was 6-18 from 3.

If we are locked in from the jump and disruptive on defense, they have no chance. They deserve a nice stomping in the Dome.

 

[Lukeyloo]

Starling is a great athlete, very good defender, creator, rebounder and finisher. But something has gone very wrong with that shot-put of a jumper. It’s like he’s trying to beat the buzzer every time he shoots. That’s not the form he had at BVille.

IIRC he injured both shoulders at Notre Dame, I wonder if one or both didn’t heal correctly. He doesn’t raise his shot up too high in front of him.

 

[RealMcNeil]

If we can Improve on defense, and I think we can, we’ll be pretty good. It may just take some time for the guys to figure out exactly what they need to be doing to be successful in man to man. We also need to crash the boards better.

These early games, especially with the longer stretches of practice between them, can prove to be as helpful as they were hard to watch at times. We’ll see - hell of a ride either way.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think we will score plenty, but the defense is atrocious. Most of it is effort and stupidity.

I

It’s hard to say how much falls on the players just not caring and how much is on Red for not coaching these guys up.

 

[pearl31]

This team is down Westry, has the situation with Benny and Maliq isn’t 100%. On top of our new coach and his system. Going to take a few beats.

I will say when we are engaged and attacking the rim, this team is really exciting. Work inside out: rim, FTs, threes. But right now there is a lot of inconsistency with the ability to be relentlessly attacking. We have to bring wave after wave of pressure on O. We should be shooting a ton of FTs. JT and Bell should be getting catch and shoot looks off of it. But it’s hard to consistently apply that type of pressure. It’s exhausting and if you aren’t getting calls, it can be real frustrating.

Last thing, Judah has to realize his path to the nba isn’t his counting stats. It’s his ability to raise the ceiling of his team and make better second level decisions. But to do that, he has to be focused. All the time. As I noted in the other thread, he should have Kyrie’s finishing-at-the-rim videos on repeat.

It’s game two. Could have been better, but it could have been much worse. Need to bank the next one and then it’s house money in Hawaii.

chicken dinner

 

[Orangezoo]

It's two games. I don't want to be harsh and I want to be optimistic. So far, I haven't been impressed with much. I think there is talent on this team. Red will improve as times go on. I just haven't been impressed to this point. I think the big guy is better than I expected. I would like to see him play more.

I'm not going to go pollyannish on this team yet but I think you have to step back and look at how much poor basketball is being played in general right now. I get the margins have been smaller as opposed to some teams demolishing others but there is not a huge difference in terms of how much bad basketball is being played right now across the country. It's why you don't see as many college guys dominating the NBA as you do overseas guys and OT Elite etc etc.

The folks who were Gung ho about an outside hire are licking their chops screaming for attention on the board right now. We aren't ever going to see the level of coaching or players in the glory days of college hoops. Everyone needs to start realizing that soon. Pitino wouldn't have come in here and poof we are good. People love to think that would be the case - it's not. Teams with enough talent and grad transfers that make it to the tourney can do some damage. That said things are far less predictable than maybe ever. I think what Red will find is that the portal and older kids are going to be the key. Young talent is fun and great but it's an uphill climb.

Lastly I think this roster has to turn over more to get what he needs to meet the standard he wants. Hopefully that means a few guys in the portal next year to pair with Freeman, Moore and the guys he thinks should return and agree to do so.

 

[billsin01]

Better talent will help but if this is the defensive system he’s gonna roll with… this is why I wanted a proven resume.

Don’t disagree but I would argue it’s a pointless discussion. It’s always the way it was going to go. If Duke goes with scheyer and UNC goes with Davis, Cuse wasn’t going to go outside. I’m not saying you’re wrong — we’ll see, but I haven’t been super impressed. But it was always going in house for the first hire post-JB.

 

[AZOrange]

83 and 89 points in first two games and the complaining is off the charts lol. This team cracked 80 once the first 10 games last year and Lost 4 of the first 6. No one is ever happy lol

I actually like what I’m seeing. Lots of mistakes but that can be fixed and lots of talent

 

[dasher]

I'm not going to go pollyannish on this team yet but I think you have to step back and look at how much poor basketball is being played in general right now. I get the margins have been smaller as opposed to some teams demolishing others but there is not a huge difference in terms of how much bad basketball is being played right now across the country. It's why you don't see as many college guys dominating the NBA as you do overseas guys and OT Elite etc etc.

The folks who were Gung ho about an outside hire are licking their chops screaming for attention on the board right now. We aren't ever going to see the level of coaching or players in the glory days of college hoops. Everyone needs to start realizing that soon. Pitino wouldn't have come in here and poof we are good. People love to think that would be the case - it's not. Teams with enough talent and grad transfers that make it to the tourney can do some damage. That said things are far less predictable than maybe ever. I think what Red will find is that the portal and older kids are going to be the key. Young talent is fun and great but it's an uphill climb.

Lastly I think this roster has to turn over more to get what he needs to meet the standard he wants. Hopefully that means a few guys in the portal next year to pair with Freeman, Moore and the guys he thinks should return and agree to do so.

We gave up 45 pts in the second half against these guys. We have to be better than that as the upcoming teams are a lot better than what we have just faced.

 

[Orangezoo]

We gave up 45 pts in the second half against these guys. We have to be better than that as the upcoming teams are a lot better than what we have just faced.

We did and we do. They made some very low pct shots that were well contested from 3 as well. I rewatched and absent blocking them there was little they could do more. Very unusual for an opponent like that to hit so many of those.

We also executed with both starting guards working together for a stretch of play for the first time all year. There was progress at least. The first half was a dumpster fire outside of McLeod.

 

[Sherman20]

I'm not going to go pollyannish on this team yet but I think you have to step back and look at how much poor basketball is being played in general right now. I get the margins have been smaller as opposed to some teams demolishing others but there is not a huge difference in terms of how much bad basketball is being played right now across the country. It's why you don't see as many college guys dominating the NBA as you do overseas guys and OT Elite etc etc.

The folks who were Gung ho about an outside hire are licking their chops screaming for attention on the board right now. We aren't ever going to see the level of coaching or players in the glory days of college hoops. Everyone needs to start realizing that soon. Pitino wouldn't have come in here and poof we are good. People love to think that would be the case - it's not. Teams with enough talent and grad transfers that make it to the tourney can do some damage. That said things are far less predictable than maybe ever. I think what Red will find is that the portal and older kids are going to be the key. Young talent is fun and great but it's an uphill climb.

Lastly I think this roster has to turn over more to get what he needs to meet the standard he wants. Hopefully that means a few guys in the portal next year to pair with Freeman, Moore and the guys he thinks should return and agree to do so.

I agree with most of what you say. But Pitino absolutely could have come in and won big right away here. He will do it at St John’s this season. But he’s probably one of the 5 best college coaches of the past 40 years and one of the few experienced coaches that would have been able to succeed big-time in year 1. Hopefully the team can scratch and claw their way into the tourney this season and then Red can build on that for next season.

 

[Bulldog04]

I'm sorry, they were never going to be 0-2 against these two teams. And we have had plenty of stretches over the past two years where we looked better than what they showed in the second half. You want to praise Red and attack JB, I get it. But these have not been good efforts by us. I think and hope Benny will help when he starts playing again next week. But so far, 2 12 pt wins against really second rate teams, is once again, not impressive.

Dash it’s not an attack on JB. Was Bryant a good team last year? Was Illinois 30 points better (cuse scored 44 that game) ? Colgate crushed them. Loss to St Johns. OT with Richmond. I’m just saying the start of the season this year could have been similar to last year and it hasn’t been yet. I completely agree there is a lot to work on, I’m just saying compared to what we saw last year, I’m counting this as a better start. That’s all

 

[Newhouser]

I think a lot of the guys think they are better than they are, and haven't quite figured out the term role player. Everyone (even Judah) thinks their game is better than it is. Hopefully a clearer understanding of role and accepting that role comes quick - I fear some beat downs in Hawaii, but still much more fun to watch than the previous pace and PT pattern.

 

[Scooch]

This team is down Westry, has the situation with Benny and Maliq isn’t 100%. On top of our new coach and his system. Going to take a few beats.

I will say when we are engaged and attacking the rim, this team is really exciting. Work inside out: rim, FTs, threes. But right now there is a lot of inconsistency with the ability to be relentlessly attacking. We have to bring wave after wave of pressure on O. We should be shooting a ton of FTs. JT and Bell should be getting catch and shoot looks off of it. But it’s hard to consistently apply that type of pressure. It’s exhausting and if you aren’t getting calls, it can be real frustrating.

Last thing, Judah has to realize his path to the nba isn’t his counting stats. It’s his ability to raise the ceiling of his team and make better second level decisions. But to do that, he has to be focused. All the time. As I noted in the other thread, he should have Kyrie’s finishing-at-the-rim videos on repeat.

It’s game two. Could have been better, but it could have been much worse. Need to bank the next one and then it’s house money in Hawaii.

Great, great post.

I'm trying to discern if Autry has the team taking more early-shot-clock 3s to try and get these guys into some kind of rhythm early in the season, or if they're not following a drive-and-kick plan?

I want to see them attack the rim on nearly every possession since that's clearly our strength, but I imagine what we're seeing is part of Red's long term plan.

This is fun. I've never watched SU play hoops in a different style and approach from what I saw from 1991, when I stepped on campus, to 2023.

 

[kingtidge]

2-0 is 2-0.

We NEED to beat Colgate though. It's almost a must if we are serious about a tourney trip

Yeah, it's sad this is such a big game now, but it is what it is. Red took the job knowing he has to win this game.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Dash it’s not an attack on JB. Was Bryant a good team last year? Was Illinois 30 points better (cuse scored 44 that game) ? Colgate crushed them. Loss to St Johns. OT with Richmond. I’m just saying the start of the season this year could have been similar to last year and it hasn’t been yet. I completely agree there is a lot to work on, I’m just saying compared to what we saw last year, I’m counting this as a better start. That’s all

Outside of JJ's shot being broken I have zero complaints about the offensive output, but they HAVE TO figure out the defense and a good amount of it is effort and stupidity. The help defense is not there and too often guys are not getting back or losing their man altogether.

 

[Scooch]

I'm not going to go pollyannish on this team yet but I think you have to step back and look at how much poor basketball is being played in general right now.

Yep. College basketball has by far the worst quality of play among any sport I follow. And I follow a freakin' lot of sports.

The disparity between the NBA and college is roughly the same as the disparity between college and some 8 year olds playing in their driveway. It's an awful product.

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree with most of what you say. But Pitino absolutely could have come in and won big right away here. He will do it at St John’s this season. But he’s probably one of the 5 best college coaches of the past 40 years and one of the few experienced coaches that would have been able to succeed big-time in year 1. Hopefully the team can scratch and claw their way into the tourney this season and then Red can build on that for next season.

Pitino took jobs where they were already running a similar system to what he runs. Iona played a pressing defense before him and then the same coming to St Johns. It's far less of a transition than it would be coming to SU where you have Red attempting to deploy a mtm system that has yet to showcase the more aggressive elements. Pitino is a great coach I agree but he's also racing the clock with father time. I don't doubt for a second he took the last two jobs knowing the transition would be far less drastic than trying to build it from scratch again

 

[Cheriehoop]

I have surgery Nov. 14. If they don’t win, I won’t heal correctly. Then if Maui is no damn good, I may end up in a nursing home. GO SU!

Hoping you have a successful surgery and compete, quick recovery - your team needs you!

 

[pwong]

Dash it’s not an attack on JB. Was Bryant a good team last year? Was Illinois 30 points better (cuse scored 44 that game) ? Colgate crushed them. Loss to St Johns. OT with Richmond. I’m just saying the start of the season this year could have been similar to last year and it hasn’t been yet. I completely agree there is a lot to work on, I’m just saying compared to what we saw last year, I’m counting this as a better start. That’s all

Last year, we beat Leheigh by 18 and NEastern by almost 30 early in the season.

Our schedule this year ramps up significantly harder than last year, so we don’t even know how good or how bad we will be vs Maui, Oregon, LSU, @ Virginia. But based on the eye test vs more inferior opponents, its trending worse than last year.

 

[MikeSU02]

Great, great post.

I'm trying to discern if Autry has the team taking more early-shot-clock 3s to try and get these guys into some kind of rhythm early in the season, or if they're not following a drive-and-kick plan?

I want to see them attack the rim on nearly every possession since that's clearly our strength, but I imagine what we're seeing is part of Red's long term plan.

This is fun. I've never watched SU play hoops in a different style and approach from what I saw from 1991, when I stepped on campus, to 2023.

I *think* Red wants to get JT and Bell a catch and shoot look early like 2004 Detroit used to get Ben Wallace a look early to keep them engaged.

The first game, he called a play for JT early and then it looked like he called a play for Bell but Judah audibled and took it himself.

Besides keeping those two engaged, I can see if we hit an early three, it will open up those driving lanes a bit for JJ, Judah, etc.

Agree, this is fun. I think if we had Westry and Benny, we could really push tempo even more. I just am not sure that we have quite enough guys at the moment to not get burned out.

 

[BigNastyJon]

I’m going to enjoy watching the team and reserve judgement until after the new year.

 

[AZOrange]

Great, great post.

I'm trying to discern if Autry has the team taking more early-shot-clock 3s to try and get these guys into some kind of rhythm early in the season, or if they're not following a drive-and-kick plan?

I want to see them attack the rim on nearly every possession since that's clearly our strength, but I imagine what we're seeing is part of Red's long term plan.

This is fun. I've never watched SU play hoops in a different style and approach from what I saw from 1991, when I stepped on campus, to 2023.

Red clearly wants to increase possession 25-50%. That’s going to lead to a lot of points being given up. The rotations will improve.

 

[AZOrange]

I’m going to enjoy watching the team and reserve judgement until after the new year.

Exactly. Last year we were dead the minute we stepped on the court. This year we have the horses. Once they learn to play together it will look pretty good