First game and a half

[721Comstock]

I *think* Red wants to get JT and Bell a catch and shoot look early like 2004 Detroit used to get Ben Wallace a look early to keep them engaged.

The first game, he called a play for JT early and then it looked like he called a play for Bell but Judah audibled and took it himself.

Besides keeping those two engaged, I can see if we hit an early three, it will open up those driving lanes a bit for JJ, Judah, etc.

Agree, this is fun. I think if we had Westry and Benny, we could really push tempo even more. I just am not sure that we have quite enough guys at the moment to not get burned out.

I was told that 18-22 year old college kids don’t ever get tired.

 

[AZOrange]

Also have we ever had a big in Naheem that drew more fouls trying to rebound on the offensive end? I bet he drew 6-8 fouls

 

[Orangezoo]

Red clearly wants to increase possession 25-50%. That’s going to lead to a lot of points being given up. The rotations will improve.

Yep. We are going to face a really good defensive team in Tennessee. They gave up 88 to Mich St who then got beat by James Madison. The number of possessions will increase a great deal this year with early shot clock offense and pushing the tempo.

It's going to be interesting to see how we play against better competition. Not getting up for these lesser teams and getting sloppy with a lead has led to lesser margins of victory. That doesn't equate to anything more than what it is at the moment. We need Benny back and Westry back to keep this pace though or we will have bad stretches where we get beat up on for sure.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This team is down Westry, has the situation with Benny and Maliq isn’t 100%. On top of our new coach and his system. Going to take a few beats.

Right, this is not yet the team that Red planned on having on the court. Also, too, Jesse was going to be a big focus on offense this season and now he's playing for WVU. I'm still not a Chris Bell fan, he looks like he's putting 50% more effort in this season, but it's still waaaaaaaay down compared to anyone else. I'd like to see a JJ, Judah, JT, Brown, McLeod lineup. They'd only have one shooter, but the rebounding and put backs would be better.

 

[dasher]

We did and we do. They made some very low pct shots that were well contested from 3 as well. I rewatched and absent blocking them there was little they could do more. Very unusual for an opponent like that to hit so many of those.

We also executed with both starting guards working together for a stretch of play for the first time all year. There was progress at least. The first half was a dumpster fire outside of McLeod.

Dash it’s not an attack on JB. Was Bryant a good team last year? Was Illinois 30 points better (cuse scored 44 that game) ? Colgate crushed them. Loss to St Johns. OT with Richmond. I’m just saying the start of the season this year could have been similar to last year and it hasn’t been yet. I completely agree there is a lot to work on, I’m just saying compared to what we saw last year, I’m counting this as a better start. That’s all

Yeah, Bryant was a lot better than the two teams we just played. As was those other games. I am not here to defend the job JB did at the end. But 2 12 pt wins against those two teams is nothing to brag about. I have been totally unimpressed so far. Now, I think Benny will help. And it is only two games. But an unimpressive start.

 

[OptimusOtto]

I wonder how much of it has to do with a young team and a dead dome. You like to think this group hasn’t won anything and would come in hungry but think the young guys feed off the crowd and these felt like glorified scrimmages.

Given all that’s riding on Colgate I think we’ll see a different team and energy. You could see in the second half once we went up 20 we took our foot off the gas and that’s going to happen with a young team.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah, Bryant was a lot better than the two teasm we just played. As was those other games. I am not here to defend the job JB did at the end. But 2 12 pt wins against those two teams is nothing to brag about. I have been totally unimpressed so far. Now, I think Benny will help. And it is only two games. But an unimpressive start.

I don't think anyone is calling them impressive. If they are well they would be in the super minority. That said I don't understand how margin of victory is a tell in these two games. I also think personnel fluctuation has a heavier impact in a situation like we are in with a new coach and system. I don't agree on Bryant. We just were not good at all last year. Cincy had no issue destroying Bryant last year nor did Liberty. Our schedule last year saved us from another losing season. It was incredibly weak front to back.

I know you watch a ton of hoops and the game for years. I think everyone needs to acknowledge there is a bias in having watched SU play and college hoops in it's glory days for so long that tends to skew how we evaluate things now.

Lastly - in the two games to date I don't recall a quieter less interested dome crowd even with early season games. Crappy broadcast or not the energy is non existent. Even when we executed and had runs going in both games the crowd was a bunch of zombies.

 

[AZOrange]

Yeah, Bryant was a lot better than the two teasm we just played. As was those other games. I am not here to defend the job JB did at the end. But 2 12 pt wins against those two teams is nothing to brag about. I have been totally unimpressed so far. Now, I think Benny will help. And it is only two games. But an unimpressive start.

We would have lost both these games last year

 

[Orangezoo]

We would have lost both these games last year

Yep.

 

[djcon57]

I don't think anyone is calling them impressive. If they are well they would be in the super minority. That said I don't understand how margin of victory is a tell in these two games. I also think personnel fluctuation has a heavier impact in a situation like we are in with a new coach and system. I don't agree on Bryant. We just were not good at all last year. Cincy had no issue destroying Bryant last year nor did Liberty. Our schedule last year saved us from another losing season. It was incredibly weak front to back.

I know you watch a ton of hoops and the game for years. I think everyone needs to acknowledge there is a bias in having watched SU play and college hoops in it's glory days for so long that tends to skew how we evaluate things now.

Lastly - in the two games to date I don't recall a quieter less interested dome crowd even with early season games. Crappy broadcast or not the energy is non existent. Even when we executed and had runs going in both games the crowd was a bunch of zombies.

Agreed on all counts. Wasn't impressive but I wasn't expecting it to be. I'm disappointed in the same things that everyone has mentioned (Benny not being present, JJ's shot, Judah's ballhoggery) but I don't think suggestions as if Red's defensive philosophy is doomed due to the first two games is productive or necessary.

If we see all the same things by end of the year, I think it's a valid off season discussion. For now, it's growing pains.

 

[gmacfor3]

Very weird watching a new system. I didn’t see a bit of either exhibition, but I’ve been to both regular season games.

Guys are gonna get beat of the dribble in college, my issue is with the lack of help defense. Too many guys standing around watching their teammate get beat instead of rotating over to give help defense.

I understand we’re gonna play primarily m2m, but it’s gonna get crazy nursing a lead when our guys are getting blown by 5 seconds into a possession and don’t want to challenge for fear of fouling.

Offensively, we have a lot of guys getting to the rim at will. But you’d be an idiot if you didn’t zone us with a shot blocker protecting the rim.

This offense desperately needs a back to the basket 4 or some type of offensive presence to be a relief valve for the penetrator.

Bell is going to continue to drive us crazy…nothing, nothing, why is he out there?, clutch defended 3….nothing nothing nothing, great put back layup…etc.

Judah was definitely a more in control player second half. He’s gonna drive us just a little less crazy than Bell though. And he’s going to get called for a ton of offensive fouls if he keeps raking his off elbow up high on defenders.

Q is the third player who’s gonna make us crazy. All he needs to do is make the simple play and he would be soo much more efficient. That triple-dipsy-soo up and under no-look passes are terrible.

Kyle Cuffe was measured with his hair. No way he’s 6-2. He going to get picked on by bigger guards. But he’s great giving us spot minutes in the backcourt.

Taylor has to play. He keeps defenses honest and from cheating to help.

Starling is a great athlete, very good defender, creator, rebounder and finisher. But something has gone very wrong with that shot-put of a jumper. It’s like he’s trying to beat the buzzer every time he shoots. That’s not the form he had at BVille.

Naheem can help. Obviously he’s a wall on defense. Gotta stop putting to ball on the floor though on the other end.

Brown just doesn’t have the athleticism to play behind guys in the paint. Once he’s pinned, he’s done. But he’s unbelievable with his hands on the perimeter. He pokes the ball away at a wicked percentage.

Benny. -haven’t seen him yet this year. But we could use the bigger presence underneath.

The Dome was dead. Very odd.

Too early to grade Red. I like the defensive system, it needs to be fine tuned and needs a traditional PF imho. Offensively I wanna see what happens in Hawai’i.

Great post! Two things I want to comment on…
One, I love Maliq Brown, think he’s going to be a huge part of the future. However, I don’t think he’s healthy right now, and although he has an uncanny way of poking the ball away on the defensive end, he HAS to learn to get his hands/arms vertical when guarding both in the post and on the perimeter. He closes out to shooters with his hands down, and also when he guards the post he has his hands out rather than walling up and contesting the shot. Seems like an easy fix the coaching staff can help him make.
Two, that has to have been the two smallest home crowds in a long time, no? I think we are at a big time impasse as far as the interest goes in Cuse sports, notably football and bball. Obviously nothing needs to be said about football. I think when it comes to bball fans are cautiously optimistic because of the players Red has been able to bring in, changing of playing styles, etc. But I think fans are waiting on their hands until the program wins some games against upper echelon teams and puts itself back in the conversation as a top tier program like it should be. We may or may not see that happen this year. While I think the style of play will certainly be more exciting, I think you are going to continue to see really small crowds until that happens/if it happens. Which is too bad because large crowds can elevate the play on the court, and is a huge selling point on the recruiting trail. However, I can’t blame people from staying away at this point.

 

[dasher]

We would have lost both these games last year

LOL No we wouldn't have

 

[dasher]

I don't think anyone is calling them impressive. If they are well they would be in the super minority. That said I don't understand how margin of victory is a tell in these two games. I also think personnel fluctuation has a heavier impact in a situation like we are in with a new coach and system. I don't agree on Bryant. We just were not good at all last year. Cincy had no issue destroying Bryant last year nor did Liberty. Our schedule last year saved us from another losing season. It was incredibly weak front to back.

I know you watch a ton of hoops and the game for years. I think everyone needs to acknowledge there is a bias in having watched SU play and college hoops in it's glory days for so long that tends to skew how we evaluate things now.

Lastly - in the two games to date I don't recall a quieter less interested dome crowd even with early season games. Crappy broadcast or not the energy is non existent. Even when we executed and had runs going in both games the crowd was a bunch of zombies.

Not to mention I don't think we lose to Bryanty last year if our best player doesn't get tossed from the game.

 

[two3zone]

I love the direction this team is heading, have to remember a majority of these guys are JB guys and they’re super young, even the transfers don’t have a ton of experience. We may not finish over 500 but I do like this team and the direction, next year and the year after I really thing we’ll be big time contenders.

 

[two3zone]

LOL No we wouldn't have

I don’t think people want to admit how much we lost from last year.

 

[Brooky03]

We would have lost both these games last year

Doubtful. For as bad as we were last year, these two teams we've played so far looked very bad.

 

[Knicks411]

I was going to mention that there is a lot of room for improvement in many areas but we are seeing point totals that haven't been common in recent years.

For whatever its worth we scored 90 in the opener last season, plus they cracked 80 3 other times in the non conf. So I wouldnt read too much into higher point totals against bad teams

 

[MSOrange]

For whatever its worth we scored 90 in the opener last season, plus they cracked 80 3 other times in the non conf. So I wouldnt read too much into higher point totals against bad teams

Fair enough. I usually do a bit of research before I spout off. I didn't that time. Guess some of the games we struggled to score are burned into my memory.

 

[Brooky03]

I don’t think people want to admit how much we lost from last year.

First year head coaches tend to take a while to get their footing, too. And by 'a while' I mean seasons. That seems to get a little bit glossed over due to the excitement of something new.

Red could very well be a future Hall of Famer, but the thing with future Hall of Famers is they tend to suck at the beginning. Bill Belichick was not a good football coach until he was the best football coach.

 

[two3zone]

First year head coaches tend to take a while to get their footing, too. And by 'a while' I mean seasons. That seems to get a little bit glossed over due to the excitement of something new.

Red could very well be a future Hall of Famer, but the thing with future Hall of Famers is they tend to suck at the beginning. Bill Belichick was not a good football coach until he was the best football coach.

100%

 

[Orangezoo]

I don’t think people want to admit how much we lost from last year.

Fair but I don't think others want to admit just how bad we were last year too. The factors to making that team as such is a story not yet sorted out yet both of whose back and who left.

It's likely a bit of a double edged sword for Red and the players combined.

As for where we land record wise this year it's going to be as much if not more about the players than Red in year 1 to see who is willing to help be a leader whether in games or practice to push the best out of everyone. Reading and reacting as a new coach while you have so much else to focus on is something that won't yield quick returns.

 

[two3zone]

Fair but I don't think others want to admit just how bad we were last year too. The factors to making that team as such is a story not yet sorted out yet both of whose back and who left.

We were bad last year, what makes us better this year? What we’re better at there are an equal amount of things we’re worse at.

 

[dasher]

Fair but I don't think others want to admit just how bad we were last year too. The factors to making that team as such is a story not yet sorted out yet both of whose back and who left.

It's likely a bit of a double edged sword for Red and the players combined.

It really has nothing to do with what we were last year. We all knew we sucked. We talked about it every day here. We wanted a Hall of Fame coach fired or forced to retire. What I am talking about is how I thought they looked in the first two games. And it wasn't good. Can we get better. Yes. I hope so anyway. We have some very tough games coming up. I hoped to win 3 of the 6 tough OTC games. I am not counting Colgate. Despite the last two years. That might be tough from what I have seen so far. But I have hopes that Benny will make a difference with his outside stroke giving us another shooter and his size. Get me 3 wins from Maui, the LSU, Oregon and G-town games and I will be very happy. Anything less, will be trouble for this year.

 

[Orangezoo]

We were bad last year, what makes us better this year? What we’re better at there are an equal amount of things we’re worse at.

I see it as two different conversations is my point. That said I think the bad years tend to create excess value in guys we lost paired with over valuing new guys because they are different.

 

[Orangezoo]

It really has nothing to do with what we were last year. We all knew we sucked. We talked about it every day here. We wanted a Hall of Fame coach fired or forced to retire. What I am talking about is how I thought they looked in the first two games. And it wasn't good. Can we get better. Yes. I hope so anyway. We have some very tough games coming up. I hoped to win 3 of the 6 tough OTC games. That might be tough from what I have seen so far. But I have hopes that Benny will make a difference with his outside stroke giving us another shooter and his size. Get me 3 wins from Maui, the LSU, Oregon and G-town games and I will be very happy. Anything less, will be trouble for this year.

We aren't disagreeing I'm just saying I see both realities in the early posts on the season.

Also this is Judah's team and I'm not impressed with him in that role. It's a carryover not seeing someone step up and be a leader.