For those are already to move on from Red

[SUFan44]

I agree the team would have a hard time making the tourney even with JJ, but IMO due to a lack of interior athleticism which is another glaring hole that was not addressed well through the portal.

As a head coach, Red has shown he's a great recruiter, maybe a B to B- coach during the season (in game, prep and practice), and very poor as a GM in getting the right combination of players

See, I don't even think we are B/B- in-game.

We don't play hard. That's a coaching thing. We tolerate Chris Bell's nonsense, and have for the last three years. That's a coaching thing. We are playing a PG that shouldn't play at this level -- regardless of the options on the bench, some of which at least deserve a shot at this point. That's a coaching thing.

I think that's a far bigger indictment than the GM piece. I agree some of the pieces (Lampkin, Carlos, specifically) are mismatched, but there is still enough talent to be more competitive with Tennessee, win the games vs. Texas/Texas Tech (at least 1), and win by double digits against the others.

Coaching is by far my biggest concern. And simply stating "this is not Syracuse basketball" is not an answer. It's just not.

 

[SUFan44]

You heard me. And not for nothing, JB would not have allowed that. No matter what.

That is part of this.

Autry is a company guy. He's not looking out for the program, he's looking to be a good partner with his boss.

Personally, I don't think taking a bus is a big deal. If you're leaving two days prior (which is what most teams do now that the rules have changed), they can leave at 9am to Boston, get in at 1pm, have a quick meal, practice at 5pm if they want, practice full the next day, and then shoot around on game day.

Small time? Sure. Whatever. But you think this prevented teams in the past from winning? Ask other teams from the early to mid 80's if they were getting chartered flights, catered meals, and being coddled 99% of the time. Didn't affect them.

 

[LAorange44]

College sports is the front porch for the university. With lower births starting in 2008, there is going to be a demographic shift in the number of students going to college. Winning college sports attracts good students. It’s part of the experience. Schools like Bama and Clim are going to see their academic rankings increase. Our academic and athletic slide will likely continue unless we figure things out

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Dick i hear many of your points. My interest in wins/losses has dulled to the point of indifference. I think college hoops as a whole is in trouble based on the moving around aspect of these teams. There was continuity and ownership to a program prior to NIL. It's just gone now. At least college football is a singular once per week thing that feels a bit more interchangeable.

I have a bigger issue in the Syracuse basketball industrial complex. I always felt like it was in good hands to remain viable. Boeheim certainly was a massive reason. Even at the dreadful end, we still had Jim Boeheim, HOF coach, as the main guy. It made us matter. At this point we're not viable, not entertaining, and probably becoming irrelevant. That to me is a major issue. I just hope the university is not deliberate here.

If Red can turn it around get us to 20 wins this year i'll be the first to admit he's learning on the job and he may be the guy for the job. I just feel like i've seen enough from coaching, managing the bench to think this may be going the wrong way fast.

Well, you had me until the getting to 20 wins part Coaching aside, I just don't see enough talent on this team to get there. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...in fact, it wouldn't even be the first time I was wrong today. But I don't think so.

 

[Orangezoo]

This all points to a Louisville like debacle this year. We need fresh blood and energy to go with the better NIL. But if Kent is in the way then we are handcuffed here.

 

[SUFan44]

This all points to a Louisville like debacle this year. We need fresh blood and energy to go with the better NIL. But if Kent is in the way then we are handcuffed here.

See, I think NIL will work itself out with the revenue sharing model.

The collectives will be put in much more difficult spots in terms of contracts with student-athletes. Won't be as many 'no show' contracts. They need to be legitimate. To what extent? I don't know. But there will be review systems in place.

The coaching is a huge concern. Coaches still need to be able to coach. It hasn't changed much.

Boeheim could still coach. He sucked at recruiting. And gave his sons way too big of roles. Even during the post-sanction years, we had enough talent to compete as evidenced by the Final Four run in '16. It really went downhill with his sons aboard. But he could still coach.

It's the opposite now. And it is worse. And that's not good.

 

[phil77]

Red’s not getting fired after what happened to Starling, nor should he be. Westry hasn’t even played, and not because of his knees, but because he got mono. Lampkin is clearly hobbled. These are the three best players on the team. Few coaches in the country can overcome that.

Carlos was brought in as a backup. Yeah, the staff hyped him up after they struck out with Leffew. What were they supposed to say? There were no other PGs of consequence in the portal, except Richmond, who was never coming back. If you bought into the coachspeak disguised as excitement for Carlos, isn’t that on you?

We have been giving Syracuse coaches excuses for over a decade now. When do they start taking some accountability instead of trying to blame everything else...

No bag man - Coach problem
No Offensive System - Coaches problem
No Defensive System - Coaches problem
Bad NIL - Coaches problem
Bad Talent Evaluation in the portal - Coaches problem
Not being able to close portal players - Coaches problem
Not being able to develop talent - Coaches problem
Terrible roster construction - Coaches problem
Not realizing what the team needs from portal - Coaches problem

I could go on and on the coach controls every aspect of the program if it fails it is all on him and we have failed for a decade now.
Guess what JJs injury means very little because we got similar if not better production from Moore, I will tell you if JJ was healthy Moore wouldn't have gotten the minutes he got. IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE !!!!

Tired of the excuses from people on this board who have relationships with these coaches
Tired of the coaches using excuses for terrible coaching and I am tired of the fan base letting it happen and worst of all accepting it

 

[Newhouser]

See, I don't even think we are B/B- in-game.

We don't play hard. That's a coaching thing. We tolerate Chris Bell's nonsense, and have for the last three years. That's a coaching thing. We are playing a PG that shouldn't play at this level -- regardless of the options on the bench, some of which at least deserve a shot at this point. That's a coaching thing.

I think that's a far bigger indictment than the GM piece. I agree some of the pieces (Lampkin, Carlos, specifically) are mismatched, but there is still enough talent to be more competitive with Tennessee, win the games vs. Texas/Texas Tech (at least 1), and win by double digits against the others.

Coaching is by far my biggest concern. And simply stating "this is not Syracuse basketball" is not an answer. It's just not.

And sadly this is Syracuse basketball - or has been for a while.

 

[two3zone]

JJ was playing so well it looked like it may not matter...

That's an interesting take. He was playing well, but it did matter... because we nearly lost to 3 tomato cans and haven't beaten anyone all year.

I don't think it would have mattered if JJ stayed healthy or not, this team isn't/wasn't going anywhere.

He went 3-17 and played wretched defense in his last game, which was against Cornell. That's not playing well.

 

[orangecuse]

Red’s not getting fired after what happened to Starling, nor should he be. Westry hasn’t even played, and not because of his knees, but because he got mono. Lampkin is clearly hobbled. These are the three best players on the team. Few coaches in the country can overcome that.

Carlos was brought in as a backup. Yeah, the staff hyped him up after they struck out with Leffew. What were they supposed to say? There were no other PGs of consequence in the portal, except Richmond, who was never coming back. If you bought into the coachspeak disguised as excitement for Carlos, isn’t that on you?

Interesting. Perhaps, deflection/diversion is a common behavioral trait of yours?

On a somewhat related aside, I presume Wildhack can likely count on you for supporting the hiring of Autry too, as his entire viewing audience should've simply chalked it up to 'AD speak,' PR and the like. I guess his voluntary and particularly chosen words are on those whom simply failed to recognize such an obvious disguise.

Wildhack said, Autry has been exposed to every aspect of the sport, and that uniquely prepares him for the job. “Adrian earned this,” Wildhack said Friday. “Adrian’s not here because he’s an alum, because he played here, because he’s an associate coach here. He’s here because I believe he’s the best candidate to lead this program and sustain the success that coach Boeheim has established over 47 years.”

 

[Eric15]

If i was Red id be at Boeheims house to get his input and figure out a strategy to help fix this mess.

Not to be a douche but if JB had a strategy to fix it he would have done it himself 7-8 years ago.

 

[cardiac]

Red’s not getting fired after what happened to Starling, nor should he be. Westry hasn’t even played, and not because of his knees, but because he got mono. Lampkin is clearly hobbled. These are the three best players on the team. Few coaches in the country can overcome that.

Carlos was brought in as a backup. Yeah, the staff hyped him up after they struck out with Leffew. What were they supposed to say? There were no other PGs of consequence in the portal, except Richmond, who was never coming back. If you bought into the coachspeak disguised as excitement for Carlos, isn’t that on you?

We were 4-2 and the 106th-ranked team in the country with a healthy JJ. Any coach who would count on a player who has 2 knee surgeries and hasn't played in 2 years would be crazy. This is a poorly coached team and Red is out of his depth. He will get a 3rd year and unless Melo can raise enough $ that the coaching problems are hidden by top-end talent, it's delaying the inevitable.

 

[tptcuse]

We have been giving Syracuse coaches excuses for over a decade now. When do they start taking some accountability instead of trying to blame everything else...

No bag man - Coach problem
No Offensive System - Coaches problem
No Defensive System - Coaches problem
Bad NIL - Coaches problem
Bad Talent Evaluation in the portal - Coaches problem
Not being able to close portal players - Coaches problem
Not being able to develop talent - Coaches problem
Terrible roster construction - Coaches problem
Not realizing what the team needs from portal - Coaches problem

I could go on and on the coach controls every aspect of the program if it fails it is all on him and we have failed for a decade now.
Guess what JJs injury means very little because we got similar if not better production from Moore, I will tell you if JJ was healthy Moore wouldn't have gotten the minutes he got. IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE !!!!

Tired of the excuses from people on this board who have relationships with these coaches
Tired of the coaches using excuses for terrible coaching and I am tired of the fan base letting it happen and worst of all accepting it

Well the fan base is definitely not letting it happen. Look at attendance. It’s abysmal.

 

[Day2]

The spin cycle is crazy here. You’re blaming the fans who bought into coach speak of Carlos being good? How about blaming the coaches for bad evaluation?

Red knew Westry was a wildcard at best who hadn’t played in 2 years. That’s on Red for not being more prepared.

Red chose to make Lampkin is big NIL get.

Additionally the fringe depth pieces aren’t good - Taylor, Cuffe, McLeod, Petar(not ready).

The only good pieces are the 2 freshman and JJ.

The staff built this roster, they have to own it

It’s not spin. Carlos was brought in as a backup and he looks like a backup. The evaluation was correct. Your issue is with the damage control after Leffew picked Georgia.

Westry getting mono is random and not something you can prepare for or expect.

Lampkin was a solid add. I understand people don’t care for him for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with his ability on the court, when healthy.

I don’t have a problem with our depth pieces. One of the biggest complaints over the last several years was our lack of depth. That’s being addressed now.

 

[Day2]

We were 4-2 and the 106th-ranked team in the country with a healthy JJ. Any coach who would count on a player who has 2 knee surgeries and hasn't played in 2 years would be crazy. This is a poorly coached team and Red is out of his depth. He will get a 3rd year and unless Melo can raise enough $ that the coaching problems are hidden by top-end talent, it's delaying the inevitable.

Rankings are meaningless this early in the season.

Again, Westry’s issues right now don’t have anything to do with his knees. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[albanycuse]

Not to be a douche but if JB had a strategy to fix it he would have done it himself 7-8 years ago.

Jb has the knowledge but got too old to put the work in. Recruiting was his biggest downfall towards the end.

 

[kingtidge]

It’s not spin. Carlos was brought in as a backup and he looks like a backup. The evaluation was correct. Your issue is with the damage control after Leffew picked Georgia.

Backup for whom??

He's averaging 28.4 minutes a game.

 

[cardiac]

Rankings are meaningless this early in the season.

Again, Westry’s issues right now don’t have anything to do with his knees. Correct me if I’m wrong.

November games are just as important and we dropped 40 spots in the rankings. The highest-ranked tournament team last year was 42nd its almost impossible to raise 70 spots.

Westry did not have Mono

 

[Day2]

Backup for whom??

He's averaging 28.4 minutes a game.

Dakota Leffew.

 

[kingtidge]

Dakota Leffew.

Oh, I thought you meant Carlos was a back-up for someone on our current roster, LOL.

 

[Day2]

November games are just as important and we dropped 40 spots in the rankings. The highest-ranked tournament team last year was 42nd its almost impossible to raise 70 spots.

Westry did not have Mono

I didn’t say anything about the importance of November games.

What was his illness?

 

[Day2]

Oh, I thought you meant Carlos was a back-up for someone on our current roster, LOL.

Heh, at this point he probably should be. Red’s giving him a longer leash than most are comfortable with.

 

[Blanko97]

Rankings are meaningless this early in the season.

Again, Westry’s issues right now don’t have anything to do with his knees. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Its getting late early on the rankings front. Its hard to climb, and its really hard to put together a resume with several of your best Q1 - Q2 OOC opportunities behind you...

 

[NKR1978]

Well the fan base is definitely not letting it happen. Look at attendance. It’s abysmal.

We are in our 11th year of mediocre to bad regular seasons. I'm not wasting money to fly up to Syracuse and spend $600 on a hotel and ubers and food/drinks for a weekend to watch this product.

 

[Sherman20]

Great people and great assistant coaches don't always make the best head coaches. There is nothing wrong with that. We need to accept that and move on. You can give Red 10 years it doesn't matter it will not work. After almost a year and a half of coaching, he has given Syracuse no identity on either end of the court. We do nothing well from year to year. Syracuse shouldn't be a place where someone "figures out" how to coach.

Open the checkbook and get a real coach. There are a couple in the Big East that we can and should be able to poach.

I’m not saying that Red will work out or that there aren’t issues. But for the contrarian view… How many posters on here for years have mocked Jeff Capel for being a terrible head coach (just a good recruiter)? But with a few years and a chance to build his program, Pitt has had two top 4 ACC finishes and made the NCAA tourney and is currently a top 15 team headed for its best season yet under Capel. I’m not saying we should struggle through four bad seasons with Red (like Pitt did with Capel). I don’t know if I can handle that, and there are talented, proven head coaches who I think would leap at this job. But sometimes a little patience is required.