FSU vs The ACC

[kcsu]

The ACC will bleed these guys for a minimum of 2 more years.

 

[kirbivore]

If major college football becomes two mega conferences I believe Syracuse would be in the Big Ten conglomerate, doesn’t matter if its a four division 8 or 9 team apiece 64 or 72 team P2. Syracuse makes the cut.

We would be in the East/NE division of the Big Ten with Penn State, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Boston College, West Virginia, Rutgers, and Maryland. With UVA If its 9 teams.

 

[DoctorBombay]

NYC media cares no more for Syracuse, but you do have Syracuse media interested in you.

That problem is quite harmful to any league with schools in the northeast when one of them is NOT PSU.

Disagree.
Winning cures all ills. No doubt that if Syracuse was in the CFP picture, they'd get plenty of media attention from NYC media. We've had numerous back pages in ALL NYC newspapers, whenever we've won big NCAA Tournament games.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Florida judges not having a clue seems to be a reoccurring theme

 

[sutomcat]

Thanks, sutomcat. The judge probably had to fumble through the explanation because it sounds like a weak ruling. When a body has to strain to make a decision, one has to wonder whether the decision is correct.

Regardless, the decision will likely be appealed and the NC court is not likely to step aside to the FL court. Rack up the legal fees on FSU. Soon enough, some finance or accounting type will run the real numbers and the BoT will realize AD "Ole Smoke and Mirrors" Alford is a train wreck waiting to happen.

He had problems finishing sentences and articulating his thoughts in a coherent manner.

Talked about being tired a lot. Too much.

Seemed openly belligerent to the ACC lawyers as well.

I hope the judges in the appeals court are more capable.

Good summary:

FSU lawsuit proceeds, Tallahassee judge rejects ACC jurisdiction arguments

Judge John C. Cooper said the ACC does significant business in Florida and can be sued in this state.

www.tampabay.com

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I am sure the ACC rules require that all matters be heard in NC. Not sure how that is by-passed.

 

[HtownOrange]

I am sure the ACC rules require that all matters be heard in NC. Not sure how that is by-passed.

The ACC agreement requires all suits be filed in NC. This is probably why the judge struggled to find jurisdiction. Add sutomcat's comments about the judge's articulation and coherence, combined they explain a lot.

Anyway, the NC trial will continue and even if the FL trial continues beyond appeals, the federal court would eventually be employed to resolve the matter...several years from now.

 

[All4SU]

He's BS crazy like most of FSU clan

He’s probably up for re-election.

 

[cayugacuse]

A handshake was all that was required to seal and stamp your contracts many moons ago. Your honor was at stake. Now any written contract is deemed a piece of paper that will likely be a mere irritating obstacle for an attorney to find a loophole to make it worthless. Really Fl St. belongs in the SEC with their own kind, football and tv money over education and ethics. I really am amazed that all these state schools have no problem spending taxpayers' money on ungodly sports budgets and ignoring the needs of their constituents.

 

[GHLF]

Disagree.
Winning cures all ills. No doubt that if Syracuse was in the CFP picture, they'd get plenty of media attention from NYC media. We've had numerous back pages in ALL NYC newspapers, whenever we've won big NCAA Tournament games.

Woad Blue has no idea what he is talking about. how about move ACC headquarters to DC or New York City, we are ready know the answer to that. However, that is such a pertinent discussion. I guess the ACC lacked foresight, big mistake. In any event Cuse can move the stick in the Northeast, Especially if we return to relevance. We still need TV dollars Woad

 

[GHLF]

I also, honestly feel there is going to be a return migration to the Northeast for many reasons

 

[oldpinepoint]

I also, honestly feel there is going to be a return migration to the Northeast for many reasons

taxes aside, there are a lot more positives

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Same taxes aside, there are a lot more positives

“Some taxes”.

 

[SURules]

Woad Blue has no idea what he is talking about. how about move ACC headquarters to DC or New York City, we are ready know the answer to that. However, that is such a pertinent discussion. I guess the ACC lacked foresight, big mistake. In any event Cuse can move the stick in the Northeast, Especially if we return to relevance. We still need TV dollars Woad

I just put him on Ignore.. problem solved. The issue is there are quite a few who actually believe the crap he does in the ACC which is sad. We just need to win again and get back to beating the Clemsons by 41-0 which is coming.

Look at this forum site and as it is one of best out there and tops in the ACC and country in format and content.

 

[elimunelson]

The ACC agreement requires all suits be filed in NC. This is probably why the judge struggled to find jurisdiction. Add sutomcat's comments about the judge's articulation and coherence, combined they explain a lot.

Anyway, the NC trial will continue and even if the FL trial continues beyond appeals, the federal court would eventually be employed to resolve the matter...several years from now.

This will linger until they settle for a number lower than we want and higher than what fsu and Clemson want to pay.

They want to leave. No one will force them to stay till 2036. It’s the best interest to end this sooner than later. Also in our best interest to have clarity on our future.

I’d rather a settlement asap and then the final maneuvers. If the GOR can be culled to a reasonable level does it open the door for the big 2 to remove their weak limbs?

 

[elimunelson]

While I respectfully disagree that SU will not end up at the Big boys table, the Big 12 would gladly jump at a new market the size of NY. Especially with WVU, Pitt and Louisville as projected by most clueless interweb prognosticators. The Big 12 needs any and all credibility it can muster. I don't see SU dropping down.

Big 12 isn’t big boys table. If they are then I can see your scenario. I was talking big or sec

 

[upperdeck]

Will Clemson turn into Neb is the question. Teams who have elite runs think it goes on forever. Ala fans forget those down years as well.

All good running towards money but Clemson could easily slip back to irrelevant Clemson in a tougher conf and become Rutgers.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This will linger until they settle for a number lower than we want and higher than what fsu and Clemson want to pay.

They want to leave. No one will force them to stay till 2036. It’s the best interest to end this sooner than later. Also in our best interest to have clarity on our future.

I’d rather a settlement asap and then the final maneuvers. If the GOR can be culled to a reasonable level does it open the door for the big 2 to remove their weak limbs?

How is it in the ACC's best interest to end this sooner? Or even ESPN's?

At the very least the ACC should hang on until after the new B18 TV contract. That makes it less likely that the B18 grabs teams before the end of the ACC GOR. It also makes it easier for the SEC/ESPN to grab teams first. Additionally the ACC will want to hang onto schools until the end of the B12 contract. At that point the ACC could be in a position to raid the B12 if things break right.


The B18 TV contract ends in 2030. Ideally they want to grab schools just prior to the new TV contract negotiations. They only took Oregon and Washington because the PAC was dying. Otherwise they would have waited at least another 5 years. The same would be the case for any ACC teams. They rather take a school in 2035 than 2031. Why allow schools out before 2030 if your conference can survive a B18 raid until 2035?

The B12 TV contract ends in 2031 so why let schools out prior and weaken the ACC? If the B12 contract is poor, then the ACC will be in a position to raid the B12. Why let ACC schools out before 2032 in this case?

The SEC contract ends in 2034. Ideally they would want to add a school just before the next contract negotiation. So if the SEC is not looking to raid the ACC until that time, why allow schools an out before then?


IMO it is in the ACC's best interest to NOT negotiate a settlement until 2032 at the very earliest. Anything before that will jeopardize the conference's long term survival. It is also in the SEC's and ESPN's best interest to NOT negotiate a settlement until 2032. ESPN gets cheap content that way. The SEC has no reason to expand before 2032 and waiting helps block a B18 move.

Sure the B18 wants a settlement before 2030 so they could raid the ACC. Sure the B12 wants a settlement before 2030 so the ACC is weakened. Sure the schools looking to leave want a settlement before 2030. But why would the ACC want to aid any of the above knowing it hurts the ACC?

 

[elimunelson]

Will Clemson turn into Neb is the question. Teams who have elite runs think it goes on forever. Ala fans forget those down years as well.

All good running towards money but Clemson could easily slip back to irrelevant Clemson in a tougher conf and become Rutgers.

Clemson will return to being…clemson

Always been a big boy program. Historically they were always a few wins short of historic seasons until dabo.

Rutgers is a mediocre program with like 2 signature seasons

 

[elimunelson]

How is it in the ACC's best interest to end this sooner? Or even ESPN's?

At the very least the ACC should hang on until after the new B18 TV contract. That makes it less likely that the B18 grabs teams before the end of the ACC GOR. It also makes it easier for the SEC/ESPN to grab teams first. Additionally the ACC will want to hang onto schools until the end of the B12 contract. At that point the ACC could be in a position to raid the B12 if things break right.


The B18 TV contract ends in 2030. Ideally they want to grab schools just prior to the new TV contract negotiations. They only took Oregon and Washington because the PAC was dying. Otherwise they would have waited at least another 5 years. The same would be the case for any ACC teams. They rather take a school in 2035 than 2031. Why allow schools out before 2030 if your conference can survive a B18 raid until 2035?

The B12 TV contract ends in 2031 so why let schools out prior and weaken the ACC? If the B12 contract is poor, then the ACC will be in a position to raid the B12. Why let ACC schools out before 2032 in this case?

The SEC contract ends in 2034. Ideally they would want to add a school just before the next contract negotiation. So if the SEC is not looking to raid the ACC until that time, why allow schools an out before then?


IMO it is in the ACC's best interest to NOT negotiate a settlement until 2032 at the very earliest. Anything before that will jeopardize the conference's long term survival. It is also in the SEC's and ESPN's best interest to NOT negotiate a settlement until 2032. ESPN gets cheap content that way. The SEC has no reason to expand before 2032 and waiting helps block a B18 move.

Sure the B18 wants a settlement before 2030 so they could raid the ACC. Sure the B12 wants a settlement before 2030 so the ACC is weakened. Sure the schools looking to leave want a settlement before 2030. But why would the ACC want to aid any of the above knowing it hurts the ACC?

That would be a legal analysis

At the end of the day chancellors,
Presidents and states will want this ended and not dragged on. Thats the emotional part of this. We lost being in the acc in 2003 because of emotions and politics. Feel like that will pop up again

 

[HtownOrange]

Big 12 isn’t big boys table. If they are then I can see your scenario. I was talking big or sec

The Big12 as a big boys table was not the point, I agree that they not on the same level as the SEC and B1G. My point is that SU will not be dropping football to a much lower level, at worst SU drops to the Big12.

 

[elimunelson]

The Big12 as a big boys table was not the point, I agree that they not on the same level as the SEC and B1G. My point is that SU will not be dropping football to a much lower level, at worst SU drops to the Big12.

We are in agreement then. I still think we may be further enhanced by our affiliation w ND somehow doesn’t enter the big 2.

 

[Cusester]

Not facing reality is what always means you will always fail to deal with reality in the best way. Dave Gavitt understood that you could form a basketball league of schools all located in northeastern states and cities and have it be Big Time in every sense: filled gyms, large TV audiences, lots of ranked teams, respect from national sports journalists of college athletics. But that was impossible for football and baseball.

For whatever sets of reasons, starting no later than the dawn off the 1960s, support for CFB by peoples living in the northeast began to wane. And the tide has never turned. For example, one of those guys who covers BC sports a lot wrote an article years ago about the divergences of Boston area media coverage of BD football in 1984, when Flutie won the Heisman, and 20007 when Matt Ryan was a Heisman candidate and BC played in the ACC Championship Game. In the early '80s, BC football was often on the front sports page of the Boston Globe and on Boston TV sports news even in mid-week. In 2007, BC got a slight fraction of the sports coverage it had gotten in 1984.

NYC media cares no more for Syracuse, but you do have Syracuse media interested in you.

That problem is quite harmful to any league with schools in the northeast when one of them is NOT PSU.

Hmmmm...

 

[kcsu]

ACC will play the long game. That is a fact. I have no idea how long this will go on but with two venues, two schools, it has to be a minimum of 3 years. The only path out for FSU or Clemson is an outright win of their lawsuits. I personally don't see anyway that happens. Without a clear win. One that survives all appeals I also don't see any other league offering and admitting either school.
There isn't a school in all of college football including Notre Dame that any league would add while they are involved in a major law suit of this nature.
Neither FSU or Clemson add enough value without the law suit to warrant fighting over them. Yes they are good brands but outside of the Big 10 they don't move the revenue needle for the SEC. Sure the Big Circus would take them but that isn't an upgrade over the ACC.
This move doesn't make business sense. I have always believed it was a knee jerk reaction by FSU to appease their crazy boosters after the snub.
This isn't going to end well for them as their on the wrong side of the law suit and they have a grossly inflated sense of their value to other leagues.
Simply put they are screwed and the game is just starting.

 

[HtownOrange]

This will linger until they settle for a number lower than we want and higher than what fsu and Clemson want to pay.

They want to leave. No one will force them to stay till 2036. It’s the best interest to end this sooner than later. Also in our best interest to have clarity on our future.

I’d rather a settlement asap and then the final maneuvers. If the GOR can be culled to a reasonable level does it open the door for the big 2 to remove their weak limbs?

In the emotionalmoment, it may be in FSU’s and Clemson’s interest. However, the SEC and B1G are not making $50MM more than the ACC and won’t do so for a long time, using the old projections.

Right now, FSU and Clemson agree that their buyouts would cost roughly $50MM/year left on the deal To get out of the ACC. Assuming that they immediately get picked up by the SEC or B1G, they will immediately start losing money because the new payout will not cover the buyout and the lost ACC share. Carry it through to 2036 and each team will lose a lot. Then add in the look-ins for ACC share increases.

if you prefer, the SEC is Payton out $51MM for 2023. The ACC is paying out $43MM, a difference of $8MM. If FSU had left, they would lose the ACC share of $43MM and payout the $50MM buyout, totaling $93MM to make $51MM, a net loss of $42MM.

Yes, the SEC is projected to increase more than the ACC, but the cost of getting out will not be at a break even until decades out, assuming a steady star, which we all know CFB is not in a steady state. All bloggers, blowhards, and internet mouthpieces use favorable SEC and B1G projections against outdated ACC guarantees, the premise is false to begin with. Nor is ESPN as apt to facilitate FSU to the SEC without significant payout to the ACC so they can avoid a tortious interference claim. Basically, FSU to the SEC is a losing proposition for ESPN as they already own FSU until 2036, there is no incentive for ESPN to move FSU.

To be sure, if Alford could have gotten FSU out for $100MM, it probably would have been a good deal. The ACC has been clear, FSU is not leaving for $100MM.

Further, FSU must have a landing, neither the SEC nor the B1G are accepting applications right now. To add to FSU’s dilemma, ESPN is not likely to agree to a buyout for less than they guarantee the ACC if FSU jumps to the B1G/Fox. Why would ESPN give up a profitable property to a competitor for nothing in return?

Alford is an ambulance chaser with no real business experience, no television experience, and no understanding of the complex relationships involved in major college sports. He is acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum because he wants the shiny toy $$£€¥$$ that the SEC and B1G have. He cannot see that if he waits, he can get what he wants for a lot less than what it will cost him now at a major loss.

Let’s also not forget that he is not likely to remain the AD for 10 more years so any actions and debts/losses he creates likely will not fall to his “legacy”. The egos of Nuevo riche verify their naivety.

I think some accounting/finance/business types at FSU will rise up against Alford as this decision is clearly not in FSU’s financial interest. The FSU BoT has a fiduciary responsibility to run the university on sound financial principles. Affords dream is not even close to the BoT’s level of responsibility. It amazes me that this has gone this far.