Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[Fly Rodder]

God bless that generation. Fast forward to 2016, imagine the lawsuits and demands for apologies to excuse such horrible and unsafe work practices. I reek every time I hear that this is the "most tolerant generation". Bunch of .

"As dangerous as ironwork is today, it is far safer than it was. Early ironwork, without hard hats or lanyards or numerous other modern safety measures, was a rapacious killer. In 1907, as many as one in seven men died on the job. ''We do not die,'' an early motto went. ''We are killed.'"

Like you said, .

 

[NJCuse97]

What do you see as a possible timeline for this project ... knowing that, at a minimum: 1) they're not going to re-schedule any FB or BB games; 2) the project includes a new roof; and 3) changes to the exterior walls will be included to let in more light?

Tough to say, but I feel a bit like this will be drawn out. I can see them doing the roof fast and then taking a long time for the rest. If that is the case, I would worry that they didn't include escalation in the estimate (and then they will surely blow the budget). If you look at the Turner web page, they talk about the MSG project being fast tracked and that it took 41 months (3 1/2 years). Such is the reality of doing work in an occupied facility. That said the Garden is likely way busier than the Dome.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I wonder if funding is even secured yet.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Not in the construction industry, so not familiar with the terms, but what is re-work? Work that needs to be done over because it was not done properly? How does the contractor get paid for fixing their own shoddy work?

Re-work is like a change order and this is the result...

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I wonder if funding is even secured yet.

That's something of a worry because history tells us we are likely to go into recession sometime in the next 2 or 3 years. Depending upon the severity of our next downturn, much of what we are hoping for could be many years away.

I will try not to dwell on my more pessimistic thoughts, however.

 

[reedny]

Re-work is like a change order and this is the result...
View attachment 63927

Note that the dingy says, "original contract".

 

[NJCuse97]

I hope you're not suggesting the new roof interior will look like that. The current bubble lets in a lot more natural light than that ugly crap.

Eye of the beholder. That building won awards. That said, no I don't think it will be that literal or traditional an interpretation of a saw tooth. If you look at the Vikings stadium design closely with what I suggested about the intent of a saw tooth design, you will see that it is about 60% ETFE and 40% solid. I would bet the solid portion "faces" south and the ETFE faces north. The pitch on the roof allows the solid portion to block direct sun for the entire field and probably the lower seating when the sun is at its highest (noon on June 21 or whatever). The Dome is oriented similarly (the length is east/west) and we could see a large truss span the field in that long direction that both a solid portion and an ETFE portion frame into. That truss could act as a runner or track for a center hung scoreboard to slide to one end and be centered on an offset hoops court. They can make roofs move, they can make scoreboards move. I see a schedule being a year for structural prep, (setting up any framing or bearing plates and doing any exterior buttressing or structural reinforcing) a year of the roof, and then 2 years of interior upgrades. Pure conjecture.

 

[xc84]

My understanding is that the existing concrete columns couldn't possibly support a steel/ETFE roof, forget about also supporting the existing roof during the transition period.

Not an engineer but I can't believe that is even close to being possible.

Am I crazy? C'mon engineers, step up and weigh in.

Right. I don't think the existing structure can support a new roof as described. There will need to be additional support. I am not an engineer but I play one on bulletin boards. The current dome sides were not built to support a roof.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Eye of the beholder. That building won awards. That said, no I don't think it will be that literal or traditional an interpretation of a saw tooth. If you look at the Vikings stadium design closely with what I suggested about the intent of a saw tooth design, you will see that it is about 60% ETFE and 40% solid. I would bet the solid portion "faces" south and the ETFE faces north. The pitch on the roof allows the solid portion to block direct sun for the entire field and probably the lower seating when the sun is at its highest (noon on June 21 or whatever). The Dome is oriented similarly (the length is east/west) and we could see a large truss span the field in that long direction that both a solid portion and an ETFE portion frame into. That truss could act as a runner or track for a center hung scoreboard to slide to one end and be centered on an offset hoops court. They can make roofs move, they can make scoreboards move. I see a schedule being a year for structural prep, (setting up any framing or bearing plates and doing any exterior buttressing or structural reinforcing) a year of the roof, and then 2 years of interior upgrades. Pure conjecture.

Not the best picture of the truss span but it does show the solid and light side converging in the center.

 

[PhatOrange]

All I know is that multiple experts here, with knowledge of the construction business and structural engineering, insisted that any new roof could not rest on the existing dome infrastructure. I'm paraphrasing, but they claimed the existing columns were engineered to support a lightweight roof with most of the load-bearing minimized due to the air support. As such, huge trusses would need to be established on the perimeter.

for sure they weren't designed to support a fixed roof, they're weight bearing is likely more for snow load. But I'd also bet they were way over built and can support a lot of weight. Anyhow, i can't see them going anywhere so they'll support what they can. This weight/support issue is why I also think you have to envelope the current dome with a new shell. (or exterior buttressing or structural reinforcing as NJCuse suggested.)

I picture a mushroom. The new roof will cantilever over the existing footprint but then they build the new shell to match up with the cantilevered portion and will do most of the load bearing.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I wonder if funding is even secured yet.

No it's not, they will be looking to sell suites and other naming rights. Probably a capital campaign as well.

 

[FrancoPizza]

for sure they weren't designed to support a fixed roof, they're weight bearing is likely more for snow load. But I'd also bet they were way over built and can support a lot of weight. Anyhow, i can't see them going anywhere so they'll support what they can. This weight/support issue is why I also think you have to envelope the current dome with a new shell. (or exterior buttressing or structural reinforcing as NJCuse suggested.)

I picture a mushroom. The new roof will cantilever over the existing footprint but then they build the new shell to match up with the cantilevered portion and will do most of the load bearing.

Is it cheaper to do a mushroom?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Not the best picture of the truss span but it does show the solid and light side converging in the center.

Just curious, how come they didn't do both sides with light? Was it to save on costs or is it an engineering constraint?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

There is an extensive discussion of the Minneapolis stadium -- from conception right up until today -- on this site:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=665706

Also a lot of excellent photographs of the stadium as it evolved.

 

[AZOrange]

Just curious, how come they didn't do both sides with light? Was it to save on costs or is it an engineering constraint?

I had the same question.

 

[RF2044]

There is an extensive discussion of the Minneapolis stadium -- from conception right up until today -- on this site:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=665706

Also a lot of excellent photographs of the stadium as it evolved.

As a resident of Minneapolis who sees the new stadium downtown every day, it is hard to envision how any Dome renovation would incorporate some of the architectural principles of the walls / roof of US Bank Stadium. Seems like doing so would cost a lot more than ~$200M--it would take a total replacement of much of the external structure.

Maybe they mean that the roof only will be constructed of that translucent material [integrated with a support structure] instead of the walls, etc.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Just curious, how come they didn't do both sides with light? Was it to save on costs or is it an engineering constraint?

That is a question for NJCuse97.

 

[Jake]

Or capacity seating changes. Unless I missed it.

prepare for a significant hit to seating capacity.

 

[GoSU96]

No it's not, they will be looking to sell suites and other naming rights. Probably a capital campaign as well.

Wait till they issue the call for stadium (re)builders licenses, one time charge to keep your rights to seasons.

 

[OttoMets]

Regarding no transparent material on both sides of the roof: too much sun.

Unpleasant for fans, treacherous for athletes (remember the glare in the Astrodome?), and murder on the utility bills. It'd be like a greenhouse.

 

[rrlbees]

prepare for a significant hit to seating capacity.

I had previously heard 5-7k (10-15%). You've heard more?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Less seats = higher prices.

100 level seat holders get bumped into the 200's. 200's get bumped to the 300's. 300's get bumped up a few rows.

Cats and dogs living together. Mass Hysteria.

 

[cuseguy]

Less than 45,000 would be a mistake.

 

[GoSU96]

Regarding no transparent material on both sides of the roof: too much sun.

Unpleasant for fans, treacherous for athletes (remember the glare in the Astrodome?), and murder on the utility bills. It'd be like a greenhouse.

The ETFE is on the southern exposure.

 

[GoSU96]

What we can look forward to.

http://www.architen.com/articles/etfe-foil-a-guide-to-design/

Solar Control:

As described above, the base material of an ETFE installation is very transparent, however, the ETFE Foil can be treated in a number of different ways to manipulate its light transmission properties. These include:

Printing: Also known as fritting, the surface of the foil is covered with a variety of patterns to reduce solar gain while retaining translucency. By varying the percentage of coverage and density of the ink, the energy transmission can be altered. Alternatively, the foil can be over printed with a number of treatments to affect transmission. We offer a standard range of over 20 standard fritting patterns to achieve this variety of light transmissions, however, bespoke patterns are available at an extra cost.

Tinting: A selection of coloured foils are also available, although less readily than the standard clear foil. Coloured foils can be used alongside clear foil to incorporate branding and large scale imagery. White ETFE foil can be used to reduce glare but maintain some light transmission and insulation properties.

Surface treatments: Surface treatments undertaken during the manufacturing process can vary the properties of the fabric and allow us to manipulate light transmission. These treatments render the foil matt in appearance and therefore provide an excellent projection surface for light shows and images.

Radiation: The foil be conditioned with a range of radiation treatments which can reduce the levels of IR and UV rays transmitting through the membrane skin.

Adding additional layers of ETFE foil to a cushion also allows light transmission and solar gain to be controlled. Multi-layer cushions can be constructed to incorporate movable layers and intelligent (offset) printing. By alternatively pressurising individual chambers within the cushion, we can achieve maximum shading or reduced shading as and when required. Essentially this means that it is possible to create a building skin which is reactive to the environment through changes in climate.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a19066/minnesota-viking-football-stadium-roof/

http://www.thorntontomasetti.com/projects/minnesota_multipurpose_stadium/