Generalizations & Expectations After Media Day

[IthacaMatt]

After watching and reading the Media Day coverage about this team, I feel like we're learning new information that is changing my expectations a bit.

One interesting piece is Quadir Copeland being a very dynamic player at the 2 scrimmages. Another, of course, is the unfortunate injury to Chance Westry that has him out until December or January, it sounds like. This gives Copeland a clear window and a 10 game chance to grab his opportunity to be a big part of things this year, right now, not sometime in the future.

That's very cool, because his passing (when it's not wasteful) is mustard on a hot dog. Oh, it so good! And that man knows his way around the baseline to grab an offensive rebound, or poke the ball away from a defender while you'e still underneath the hoop.

I liked that JJ deferred just a bit to Judah in his press comments. There are going to be so many opportunities for both of them, if they share the ball well. That's something I never felt like Judah and Joe clicked on - both were high usage players, but Joe could go ball-hog sometimes, took some bad shots, and so Judah would freeze him out for spells after something like that happened.

I like hearing that Kyle Cuffe repeated his efforts as a leader in the 3 point shooting contest in Rochester, after winning it in Syracuse. He may become the third guard if he can be an outside shooter. JJ and Judah right now project as streaky, but you have to guard them if they're open. I would love to see Cuffe be seen as too good to forget about from three. He could be that guy for us.

Watching some of the recent footage, MacLeod is going to be a challenge for a lot of people. He doesn't have to be a guy who gets a touch every time down the floor like Jesse was. But he is going to be helpful, even if he always does finish with his left hand, going left. That's his one move. They have to get him comfortable with his footwork rotating the other way, too, and then you have a guy who is very difficult to guard in the low post.

Surprising to hear them hedge about whether we will play zone this year? I mean, that sounds more like the Pitino Louisville Hybrid - press, drop back into 2-3. If this is still in the tool box, that's not terrible. But they have to pick people up and play them tough man, too. I thought it was going to be ALL man defense, but now I'm not so sure.

I could live with the Pitino approach, which uses clock to make the zone more effective. But don't bring your forwards so damn high that they can't help with rebounding and defend the corner shooters instead of your center. Leave your center in rebounding position, not running away from the hoop!

I think we are going to be in better physical condition this year, as well as more athletic. Very excited for what this first month or two under Autry is going to look like. I do believe we are going to pull some upsets over people.

 

[SoBristol]

I thought Red was very clear that M2M was the primary defense, though they can play zone in situations.

M2M can allow more opportunities for Copeland or Cuffe (in a 3 guard set up for SU) depending on the opponent’s lineup. November will give us a lot to discuss, as Red’s system takes hold, with tough games in Maui providing upset chances.

 

[hoopsupstate]

After watching and reading the Media Day coverage about this team, I feel like we're learning new information that is changing my expectations a bit.

One interesting piece is Quadir Copeland being a very dynamic player at the 2 scrimmages. Another, of course, is the unfortunate injury to Chance Westry that has him out until December or January, it sounds like. This gives Copeland a clear window and a 10 game chance to grab his opportunity to be a big part of things this year, right now, not sometime in the future.

That's very cool, because his passing (when it's not wasteful) is mustard on a hot dog. Oh, it so good! And that man knows his way around the baseline to grab an offensive rebound, or poke the ball away from a defender while you'e still underneath the hoop.

I liked that JJ deferred just a bit to Judah in his press comments. There are going to be so many opportunities for both of them, if they share the ball well. That's something I never felt like Judah and Joe clicked on - both were high usage players, but Joe could go ball-hog sometimes, took some bad shots, and so Judah would freeze him out for spells after something like that happened.

I like hearing that Kyle Cuffe repeated his efforts as a leader in the 3 point shooting contest in Rochester, after winning it in Syracuse. He may become the third guard if he can be an outside shooter. JJ and Judah right now project as streaky, but you have to guard them if they're open. I would love to see Cuffe be seen as too good to forget about from three. He could be that guy for us.

Watching some of the recent footage, MacLeod is going to be a challenge for a lot of people. He doesn't have to be a guy who gets a touch every time down the floor like Jesse was. But he is going to be helpful, even if he always does finish with his left hand, going left. That's his one move. They have to get him comfortable with his footwork rotating the other way, too, and then you have a guy who is very difficult to guard in the low post.

Surprising to hear them hedge about whether we will play zone this year? I mean, that sounds more like the Pitino Louisville Hybrid - press, drop back into 2-3. If this is still in the tool box, that's not terrible. But they have to pick people up and play them tough man, too. I thought it was going to be ALL man defense, but now I'm not so sure.

I could live with the Pitino approach, which uses clock to make the zone more effective. But don't bring your forwards so damn high that they can't help with rebounding and defend the corner shooters instead of your center. Leave your center in rebounding position, not running away from the hoop!

I think we are going to be in better physical condition this year, as well as more athletic. Very excited for what this first month or two under Autry is going to look like. I do believe we are going to pull some upsets over people.

I hope we never play man out of bounds under the basket. There will be opportunities to sprinkle in some zone. I think the zone will also be played a little different. I hope the forwards don’t have to cover as much area.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I hope we never play man out of bounds under the basket. There will be opportunities to sprinkle in some zone. I think the zone will also be played a little different. I hope the forwards don’t have to cover as much area.

Versatility is good. It’s all about adjusting to your opponent. The zone in spots is great. But primary man sprinkled with it is what we’ve all been begging for. Very excited for this season. A lot of fans who have been half interested the past few years are getting hyped too.

One upset in Maui and folks will be back on the train.

 

[721Comstock]

Matt - the reason we’ve had to bring the forwards up in the zone,
was because we had two minus defenders at the G spots for the past 4 years.

When you look back over the past say 15 years, and think about the times that the zone was an actual weapon,
it was when we had two plus athlete guards who could hold their own defensively.

We’re back to that now.
Dunno how good JJ will be on D, but he’s got height, length, and plus athleticism, which is a fantastic start.

I also wouldn’t mind us deploying the Pitino 3/4 press into a zone, as a situational switch up.
Forcing an opponent to burn clock and effort just to cross mid court makes the zone that much more effective, by giving far less time to work against it in the half court.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We aren't playing much if any zone. Let it die. I can't wait for the games to start because there's a lot of assumptions being made like Boeheim is still the coach.

 

[Dcuse]

After watching and reading the Media Day coverage about this team, I feel like we're learning new information that is changing my expectations a bit.

One interesting piece is Quadir Copeland being a very dynamic player at the 2 scrimmages. Another, of course, is the unfortunate injury to Chance Westry that has him out until December or January, it sounds like. This gives Copeland a clear window and a 10 game chance to grab his opportunity to be a big part of things this year, right now, not sometime in the future.

That's very cool, because his passing (when it's not wasteful) is mustard on a hot dog. Oh, it so good! And that man knows his way around the baseline to grab an offensive rebound, or poke the ball away from a defender while you'e still underneath the hoop.

I liked that JJ deferred just a bit to Judah in his press comments. There are going to be so many opportunities for both of them, if they share the ball well. That's something I never felt like Judah and Joe clicked on - both were high usage players, but Joe could go ball-hog sometimes, took some bad shots, and so Judah would freeze him out for spells after something like that happened.

I like hearing that Kyle Cuffe repeated his efforts as a leader in the 3 point shooting contest in Rochester, after winning it in Syracuse. He may become the third guard if he can be an outside shooter. JJ and Judah right now project as streaky, but you have to guard them if they're open. I would love to see Cuffe be seen as too good to forget about from three. He could be that guy for us.

Watching some of the recent footage, MacLeod is going to be a challenge for a lot of people. He doesn't have to be a guy who gets a touch every time down the floor like Jesse was. But he is going to be helpful, even if he always does finish with his left hand, going left. That's his one move. They have to get him comfortable with his footwork rotating the other way, too, and then you have a guy who is very difficult to guard in the low post.

Surprising to hear them hedge about whether we will play zone this year? I mean, that sounds more like the Pitino Louisville Hybrid - press, drop back into 2-3. If this is still in the tool box, that's not terrible. But they have to pick people up and play them tough man, too. I thought it was going to be ALL man defense, but now I'm not so sure.

I could live with the Pitino approach, which uses clock to make the zone more effective. But don't bring your forwards so damn high that they can't help with rebounding and defend the corner shooters instead of your center. Leave your center in rebounding position, not running away from the hoop!

I think we are going to be in better physical condition this year, as well as more athletic. Very excited for what this first month or two under Autry is going to look like. I do believe we are going to pull some upsets over people.

My biggest takeaway from Autry was his mention of Maliq as the guy who made the biggest jump from last year. You mention Macleod above, who I hope develops into a force at least defensively, but I fully expect to see Brown log the most minutes at the center position. Mostly because in order to get the 5 best players on the court, he has to be there.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I thought Red was very clear that M2M was the primary defense, though they can play zone in situations.

M2M can allow more opportunities for Copeland or Cuffe (in a 3 guard set up for SU) depending on the opponent’s lineup. November will give us a lot to discuss, as Red’s system takes hold, with tough games in Maui providing upset chances.

That's what I thought, too. But when I saw him on the podium at ACC Media Day, he seemed to hedge. Now, maybe that's gamesmanship, so opponents aren't sure what defense we may use, but that's only useful at the beginning of the season. Eventually, people will see who you are, and how you intend to play.

 

[IthacaMatt]

My biggest takeaway from Autry was his mention of Maliq as the guy who made the biggest jump from last year. You mention Macleod above, who I hope develops into a force at least defensively, but I fully expect to see Brown log the most minutes at the center position. Mostly because in order to get the 5 best players on the court, he has to be there.

I tend to agree, but there are going to be a handful of games this year where we are going to have to go bigger than Maliq in the post. I think he's a very underrated player by most of our fans. Losing Westry for a couple months really hurts. Because I don't think there's enough rebounding if Benny, Chris and Justin Taylor make up our forward rotation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Matt - the reason we’ve had to bring the forwards up in the zone,
was because we had two minus defenders at the G spots for the past 4 years.

When you look back over the past say 15 years, and think about the times that the zone was an actual weapon,
it was when we had two plus athlete guards who could hold their own defensively.

We’re back to that now.
Dunno how good JJ will be on D, but he’s got height, length, and plus athleticism, which is a fantastic start.

I also wouldn’t mind us deploying the Pitino 3/4 press into a zone, as a situational switch up.
Forcing an opponent to burn clock and effort just to cross mid court makes the zone that much more effective, by giving far less time to work against it in the half court.

While I think that's a very good point about the lack of guard defense the last few years with Buddy & Joe, my memory is he started doing it earlier than that. To me, the reason was to still have the advantage at the 3 point line by having 4 to guard 3 shooting locations (top of the key and the 2 wings) - but then that's when teams started to feast on the corner jumpers from the baseline, and he did the "mad scientist" routine of having the centers run out to the corners, to poor effect.

I agree that if we play zone, keep the forwards lower, keep your center in rebounding position, and understand that if you're guarding 2 defenders vs. 3 shooters up top, then you damn well have to rebound better, when you have 3 guys along the bottom who are "truly" along the baseline or underneath the basket, because the offense only has 2 guys to offensive rebound if they have 3 shooters out.

 

[Cusefan0307]

While I think that's a very good point about the lack of guard defense the last few years with Buddy & Joe, my memory is he started doing it earlier than that. To me, the reason was to still have the advantage at the 3 point line by having 4 to guard 3 shooting locations (top of the key and the 2 wings) - but then that's when teams started feast on the corner jumpers from the baseline, and he did the mad scientist routine of having the centers run out to the corners, to poor effect.

I agree that if we play zone, keep the forwards lower, keep your center in rebounding position, and understand that if you're guarding 2 defenders vs. 3 shooters up top, then you damn well have to rebound better, when you have 3 guys along the bottom who are "truly" along the baseline or underneath the basket, because the offense only has 2 guys to offensive rebound if they have 3 shooters out.

It started once guys were able to shoot from 30 feet out on the wing. The Gillon year was pretty bad with perimeter defense as well.

 

[rrlbees]

Matt - the reason we’ve had to bring the forwards up in the zone,
was because we had two minus defenders at the G spots for the past 4 years.

Nah. That’s not when we started using it. Even with Battle and Howard we did it some with the forwards. Probably before that too.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nah. That’s not when we started using it. Even with Battle and Howard we did it some with the forwards. Probably before that too.

People may not remember, but he changed how he played the base zone several times over the years. You see it really clearly when you look at old games.

 

[rrlbees]

People may not remember, but he changed how he played the base zone several times over the years. You see it really clearly when you look at old games.

Yep. It’s evolved. I liked it when the focus was using a guard to trap in the corners with the forward.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It started once guys were able to shoot from 30 feet out on the wing. The Gillon year was pretty bad with perimeter defense as well.

Absolutely. Teams with shooters shouldn't be zoned. If Autry has them play 2-3 zone against Colgate, I'll be flabbergasted.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yep. It’s evolved. I liked it when the focus was using a guard to trap in the corners with the forward.

That was always one of our best defensive moves, the sideline trap.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Absolutely. Teams with shooters shouldn't be zoned. If Autry has them play 2-3 zone against Colgate, I'll be flabbergasted.

I think we will see zone less than 5% of possessions. It's too much of a detriment to against good shooting and good offensive rebounding teams. I think we play in your face man to man. That's what it looks like our guys will excel at.

 

[rrlbees]

I think we will see zone less than 5% of possessions. It's too much of a detriment to against good shooting and good offensive rebounding teams. I think we play in your face man to man. That's what it looks like our guys will excel at.

I think we’ll play zone 7.87% of the time.

 

[Newhouser]

My biggest takeaway from Autry was his mention of Maliq as the guy who made the biggest jump from last year. You mention Macleod above, who I hope develops into a force at least defensively, but I fully expect to see Brown log the most minutes at the center position. Mostly because in order to get the 5 best players on the court, he has to be there.

The traditional 5s we have will struggle in man. Maliq is going to have to hold the fort.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Matt - the reason we’ve had to bring the forwards up in the zone,
was because we had two minus defenders at the G spots for the past 4 years.

When you look back over the past say 15 years, and think about the times that the zone was an actual weapon,
it was when we had two plus athlete guards who could hold their own defensively.

We’re back to that now.
Dunno how good JJ will be on D, but he’s got height, length, and plus athleticism, which is a fantastic start.

I also wouldn’t mind us deploying the Pitino 3/4 press into a zone, as a situational switch up.
Forcing an opponent to burn clock and effort just to cross mid court makes the zone that much more effective, by giving far less time to work against it in the half court.

Good post. I think we still would have seen the forwards cheat up a little with stronger defensive guards, but with the guard defenders we had the forwards moving up become more critical. Then it was a simple issue of geometry.

 

[007]

I think we’ll play zone 7.87% of the time.

You are going to get some psh back on the .07 part of the 7.87.

Red has said several times that M2M will absolutely be the primary defense, and that he will also play whatever defense it takes to win. We will see some zone for sure. Ironically, McLeod could be a major weapon anchoring the 2-3. We will no longer see the 5 rotating to cover the corner.

That type of flexibility and adaptability is PERFECT in today's game, especially with well coached pressure M2M as your base defense. Very impressed with the direction that Red is taking the program.

 

[cusefan88]

The hardest thing is people need to come in with expectations that are not related to Boeheim style on offense or defense anymore.

Whatever a player was last year is not that relevant now. The slate is clean.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The hardest thing is people need to come in with expectations that are not related to Boeheim style on offense or defense anymore.

Whatever a player was last year is not that relevant now. The slate is clean.

This can't be said enough.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think we’ll play zone 7.87% of the time.

I was thinking about 7.88%

 

[CardiacCuse]

The hardest thing is people need to come in with expectations that are not related to Boeheim style on offense or defense anymore.

Whatever a player was last year is not that relevant now. The slate is clean.

yeah good point

that said, my prediction is that having guards that can play good defense will make all the difference for this year