Hearing gross on his

[omniorange]

I think this line of thought is overl optimistic in that it assumes the BOT is organized and thoughtful enough to drive the sort of consensus required to come up with a to-do list for their hires.

Actually, having worked in education for over 30 years now, yes, BOTs do have items they give to a President to address or bring back recommendations on how they will be addressed or research for them and get back to them on what they find so they can determine how to proceed.

And, of course, Presidents have items they bring forward to the BOTs to keep them informed on certain topics that will include their recommendations on how to proceed whether that be by a BOT vote or involve giving the President the authority to act on the issue as the President sees fit.

BOT general policies are suppose to be public and those policies, along with the goals and missions of the university; the planning, resource allocation, and institutional renewal; leadership and governance; administration; integrity; and then institutional assessment of all of these items are the first seven standards the accrediting agency needs to confirm are being met for the institution to continue to be accredited. The accrediting team will always meet with the BOT as part of their investigation.

BOTs are not for show and their main purpose is in terms of goals and missions. Rarely should they get involved with the day-to-day stuff, but when it comes to athletics overall that does appear to be an exception at many institutions.

In this regard though, if it were a goal of the BOT it could be something as simple as they think too much is being spent on athletics and take care of it.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SUFan44]

This is said quite often, but I haven't seen much evidence of this. There are two known cases in this regard out in the public arena - the infamous Luke Jensen hire and Gary Gait. One is at last gone and the other is a Syracuse legend.

I've seen posts on this board that want to say Ange Bradley is another. But it's from the usual lot who don't care a twit about the non-revenue sports. But using common sense it would be difficult to imagine that we "overspent" on Bradley considering she came from Richmond (so while I am sure it was a pay increase from there, I would hardly think it was extraordinarily that much more than any BCS league might pay for such a coach) and it would be even harder to imagine she is getting paid anywhere close to some of the coaches she was to directly compete against or would likely compete against in the ACC when one actually looks at said coaches and their career accomplishments - like UConn's Nancy Stevens, Maryland's Missy Meharg, UNC's Karen Shelton, UVa's Michele Madison, etc.

Cheers,
Neil

Those are two pretty big cases - Jensen was making $350,000 per year, reportedly. Gait is making $300,000 per year, reportedly. That's a lot of money for two teams that, on their best days, lose money.

I like what Gait has done - his team is Top 5 in the nation consistently and have a legit shot at winning a national title this year. But $650,000 for two guys that could be making half as much money and still be at or near the top in their respective professions? That's beyond excessive.

And to think the extra $300K or so a year could be spent on keeping some respected assistant football coaches, or possibly hiring another Eric White for recruiting purposes. Or two, perhaps.

You can spend on non-revenues and be competitive without wasting money.

And this doesn't even begin to bring into account the hires of Dr. Renee Baumgartner or Herman Frazier, or the development wing headed by a former football player who doesn't really have a load of experience in fundraising (I'm sure Gedney is a nice guy and well respected, but I'm just saying). How much do you think Floyd Little is making to be a glorified recruiter for the football team?

I'm oversimplifying things a little bit, but you get the point.

 

[SmilinBob]

So Barb Jacobs will be hired again if this is true the woman hoops can go back to being 10-20 year after year. So basically Football, mens basketball and that's it for a decent competitive salary? They already go cheap on Boeheim and Shafer.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Those are two pretty big cases - Jensen was making $350,000 per year, reportedly. Gait is making $300,000 per year, reportedly. That's a lot of money for two teams that, on their best days, lose money.

I like what Gait has done - his team is Top 5 in the nation consistently and have a legit shot at winning a national title this year. But $650,000 for two guys that could be making half as much money and still be at or near the top in their respective professions? That's beyond excessive.

And to think the extra $300K or so a year could be spent on keeping some respected assistant football coaches, or possibly hiring another Eric White for recruiting purposes. Or two, perhaps.

You can spend on non-revenues and be competitive without wasting money.

And this doesn't even begin to bring into account the hires of Dr. Renee Baumgartner or Herman Frazier, or the development wing headed by a former football player who doesn't really have a load of experience in fundraising (I'm sure Gedney is a nice guy and well respected, but I'm just saying). How much do you think Floyd Little is making to be a glorified recruiter for the football team?

I'm oversimplifying things a little bit, but you get the point.

Jenson's already gone- I doubt it has anything to do with any current coaches' salary. Virginia alone pays $1,300,000 more for just their football/basketball coaches which would finance most of the salaries of SU's women's coaches. The discrepancy is even higher compared with most other ACC programs.

 

[Millhouse]

None of us are in any position to judge Gross whether he overspent. EDIT that's not true. Few of us. coughCTOcough. We all have our suspicions but none of their numbers are public. Considering how so much of the truth is secret, Gross didn't do himself any favors by giving a cushy job to his wife or making big splashy hires in sports no one cares about. Maybe he's very responsible but if that's all that any of us can see, we're going to judge on tha.

I'm inclined to trust Syverud's judgment over Cantor's but that is only because I have such a low opinion of her.

 

[omniorange]

Those are two pretty big cases - Jensen was making $350,000 per year, reportedly. Gait is making $300,000 per year, reportedly. That's a lot of money for two teams that, on their best days, lose money.

I like what Gait has done - his team is Top 5 in the nation consistently and have a legit shot at winning a national title this year. But $650,000 for two guys that could be making half as much money and still be at or near the top in their respective professions? That's beyond excessive.

Loyola MD pays their women's lacrosse head coach $120K annually. Gait getting $300K is excessive, but somehow before I posted this info, I bet most on this board would have thought $150K excessive as well.

http://www.salarylist.com/company/Loyola-College-In-Maryland/Head-Coach-womens-Lacrosse--Salary.htm
http://www.salarylist.com/company/Loyola-College-In-Maryland/Head-Coach-womens-Lacrosse--Salary.htm
Cheers,
Neil

 

[CU44SE]

Here's the thing, I think people thought these people were severely overpaid when we were dealing with big east money, but now were getting ACC money which means we have to pay everyone a little bit more to stay competitive in those respective sports. Obviously Jensen and Gait are 2 outliers, but that's not everyone and as mentioned Jensen is gone so it's really only Gait that we know about. And I have no idea if there true or not but iv seen rumors that Gait is essentially the men's coach in waiting, which means a higher pay to keep him happy and keep him here in Syracuse.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't understand this and there has to be more than a simple disconnect between the chancellor and Gross. I was always worried about Gross leaving for somewhere else, never him being let go. Not happy at all with this unless again, there is more to it.

He won't quite be let go.

Gross will decline to work within Syverud's guidelines and will show himself the door.

Not exactly a happy day, as Gross has done a lot of things very well, but there's always a chance the new guy will do a better job with our resources than he has.

 

[rrlbees]

Do we know everything on how the whole budget and spending works? Gets something I found that compares around 2008 to 2013. Not completely sure of it's meaning. And this is just basketball.

"While other athletic programs may be carrying light debt, Syracuse’s basketball program owed about $149 million. Under Chancellor Nancy Cantor, the debt has risen to $396.9 million in 2011-2013. Major donors have made up most of the debt, but Syracuse borrowed money to cover the rest, according to Syracuse.com."

 

[SmilinBob]

He won't quite be let go.

Gross will decline to work within Syverud's guidelines and will show himself the door.

Not exactly a happy day, as Gross has done a lot of things very well, but there's always a chance the new guy will do a better job with our resources than he has.

Or worse. Granted I have absolutely no clue on what is going on behind the scenes at SU but from my seat I love what Dr. Gross has done. I get it though...you need cash and the cash cows are football and basketball but to me it reeks of a 1%er type move in too many ways. You need money to pay for those sports but yet if this makes SU return to the average to worse in every sport but mens Football, Hoop and Lacrosse...that I am not comfortable with. Again, I get it but it annoys the heck out of me if this is the reason why Gross is being let go. I understand the difference in philosophies as well and if SU is just going to go for it in those 3 sports then that is the way it is.

 

[OttoMets]

...

Restructure the fund raising area and get some pros in here that know how to get that job done.

Be careful of upsetting this apple cart at this point in time.

I agree with your last point, Dan, but as to the idea of restructuring the fundraising and getting better people to do the work, Gross has had almost a decade to hire the right people for his department and we've seen that it's not a strong suit. Ideally the director can be trusted to make those hires without being micromanaged from people in the Chancellor's office.

I like him and like much of what he's done, but that's been a concern.

 

[SmilinBob]

Do we know everything on how the whole budget and spending works? Gets something I found that compares around 2008 to 2013. Not completely sure of it's meaning. And this is just basketball.

"While other athletic programs may be carrying light debt, Syracuse’s basketball program owed about $149 million. Under Chancellor Nancy Cantor, the debt has risen to $396.9 million in 2011-2013. Major donors have made up most of the debt, but Syracuse borrowed money to cover the rest, according to Syracuse.com."

With free labour? I find it ironic that something like this gets put out when it's possible Gross is about to leave. Didn't they state they actually made a net profit before...creative accounting or we now get the facts?

 

[NKR1978]

All I know is that it's nice to have an AD that actually gives a about athletics...something that Jake C never really gave me the impression.

Everything about the AD at the end of Jake's tenure screamed "small time." The ORANGEMEN in the end zone just completely epitomizes the depth that the AD fell to when Jake left.

 

[rrlbees]

With free labour? I find it ironic that something like this gets put out when it's possible Gross is about to leave. Didn't they state they actually made a net profit before...creative accounting or we now get the facts?

The person that sent that to me said it's from an article last year.

 

[OttoMets]

Or worse. Granted I have absolutely no clue on what is going on behind the scenes at SU but from my seat I love what Dr. Gross has done. I get it though...you need cash and the cash cows are football and basketball but to me it reeks of a 1%er type move in too many ways. You need money to pay for those sports but yet if this makes SU return to the average to worse in every sport but mens Football, Hoop and Lacrosse...that I am not comfortable with. Again, I get it but it annoys the heck out of me if this is the reason why Gross is being let go. I understand the difference in philosophies as well and if SU is just going to go for it in those 3 sports then that is the way it is.

I agree with you - if we're going to revert back to focusing on those Big Three at the expense of the other sports, I'm going to be really disappointed.

In a perfect world, we'd trim waste at the top, do the best we can with our non-revenue sports without going overboard (i.e., keeping the women's hoops team in the Dome), and maximize revenue across the board. Love Gross, but not sure if we can do that with him at the helm.

 

[SmilinBob]

The person that sent that to me said it's from an article last year.

Thanks bees. Still, it just reminds me of the Taylor machine (Mr. Smith goes to Washington) type of thing. I'd swear someone put out a post that showed that SU was in the black within the past 6 months.

 

[IthacaMatt]

SU was getting in to a major conference with or without Daryl Gross So I don't see this as the big accomplishment as some do.

Even if our football team was still a national laughingstock? You sure about that? Just look at UConn. Pasqualoni destroyed their momentum under Edsall and they are now on the outside looking in.

 

[rrlbees]

Thanks bees. Still, it just reminds me of the Taylor machine (Mr. Smith goes to Washington) type of thing. I'd swear someone put out a post that showed that SU was in the black within the past 6 months.

I don't know this for sure, but I think there are 2 separate things. One is the "checkbook" which are numbers we see where it says we made a profit. Such as football revenue was X and expenditures were Y. Or for all sports it is A and B. That's all the budget stuff for the sports. Then there is everything else that I'm not sure what to call it. Infrastructure, facilities, staff, operating expenses, etc. I think when the 2 are looked at as a whole, the picture isn't as bright as when we just see what the former looks like.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Daryl Gross has a commitment to athletic excellence, particularly in football, and that's exactly what we fans want in an AD. I don't like that games were moved to MetLife or the hiring of Robinson but he's gotten SU football into a great position now. I can only hope that SU continues to pursue athletic excellence without him and doesn't become complacent.

On paper, Robinson was not the worst hire in the world. A guy who was defensive coordinator at Texas when they were playing for national championships, former NFL defensive coordinator at a couple stops - 1 positive, 1 not-so-positive. If Robinson had built a better staff with more Northeast HS recruiting connections, it might not have been the clusterflock it turned into. And there was also the pressure of him having to fire Pasqualoni on the heels of that terrible bowl game loss when Gross had just been hired. All in all, he did a very solid job, but for the fundraising.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Those are two pretty big cases - Jensen was making $350,000 per year, reportedly. Gait is making $300,000 per year, reportedly. That's a lot of money for two teams that, on their best days, lose money.

I like what Gait has done - his team is Top 5 in the nation consistently and have a legit shot at winning a national title this year. But $650,000 for two guys that could be making half as much money and still be at or near the top in their respective professions? That's beyond excessive.

And to think the extra $300K or so a year could be spent on keeping some respected assistant football coaches, or possibly hiring another Eric White for recruiting purposes. Or two, perhaps.

You can spend on non-revenues and be competitive without wasting money.

And this doesn't even begin to bring into account the hires of Dr. Renee Baumgartner or Herman Frazier, or the development wing headed by a former football player who doesn't really have a load of experience in fundraising (I'm sure Gedney is a nice guy and well respected, but I'm just saying). How much do you think Floyd Little is making to be a glorified recruiter for the football team?

I'm oversimplifying things a little bit, but you get the point.

I think with Gait, there was the idea that he could be the men's coach-in-waiting if Desko ever falls down in the job.

 

[SmilinBob]

I don't know this for sure, but I think there are 2 separate things. One is the "checkbook" which are numbers we see where it says we made a profit. Such as football revenue was X and expenditures were Y. Or for all sports it is A and B. That's all the budget stuff for the sports. Then there is everything else that I'm not sure what to call it. Infrastructure, facilities, staff, operating expenses, etc. I think when the 2 are looked at as a whole, the picture isn't as bright as when we just see what the former looks like.

Amazing how NBA and NFL teams make tons of money while paying players while colleges use free labor and lose money. Something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[Alsacs]

If the AD has a lot of debt that is on the Chancellor and AD and IMO would be grounds for a new AD. I like Dr. Gross, but if the SUAD office has spent like a drunken sailor and our fundraising is sub-par(and it is sub-par IMO) I don't mind a new AD. Gross has done a good job as AD modernizing SU Athletics, but we need more revenue to sustain the AD office. All of this makes sense as to why the BoT probably didn't green light the IPF easily even with the ACC money coming in. The BOT probably wants some or a good chunk of the debt the SU AD office to be paid off by the ACC money before allowing Gross to spend more even with the TV money coming in.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If the AD has a lot of debt that is on the Chancellor and AD and IMO would be grounds for a new AD. I like Dr. Gross, but if the SUAD office has spent like a drunken sailor and our fundraising is sub-par(and it is sub-par IMO) I don't mind a new AD. Gross has done a good job as AD modernizing SU Athletics, but we need more revenue to sustain the AD office. All of this makes sense as to why the BoT probably didn't green light the IPF easily even with the ACC money coming in. The BOT probably wants some or a good chunk of the debt the SU AD office to be paid off by the ACC money before allowing Gross to spend more even with the TV money coming in.

Even if this is 100% true, I think it is wrong-headed. We are going to be in the ACC for hopefully the foreseeable future. We will be earning an extra $15-20M per year over what we made in the Big East. Spend some of that cash up front to get the IPF in place, then we are set. Everything else seems fine for the next 10 years in terms of facilities.

 

[Alsacs]

Even if this is 100% true, I think it is wrong-headed. We are going to be in the ACC for hopefully the foreseeable future. We will be earning an extra $15-20M per year over what we made in the Big East. Spend some of that cash up front to get the IPF in place, then we are set. Everything else seems fine for the next 10 years in terms of facilities.

I understand but if your the BoT your fudicary duty is to Syracuse University not the Football program. I want the IPF as quickly as possible, but if we are 150 million dollars in debt allegedly in the SU AD office, and the AD wants to spend 13 million on a IPF I could see the non-sports loving BoT members saying PAY DOWN YOUR DEBT WITH THE MONEY AND THEN GO AHEAD. Interest rates pile up the longer you have debt. I am saying if Syverud opened up the books of the AD office and was beyond pissed at the debt while I personally would like to see Gross stay on I see it as reasonable grounds for a new AD as long as Syverud wasn't completely destroying our AD and having us deemphize spending completely.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I understand but if your the BoT your fudicary duty is to Syracuse University not the Football program. I want the IPF as quickly as possible, but if we are 150 million dollars in debt allegedly in the SU AD office, and the AD wants to spend 13 million on a IPF I could see the non-sports loving BoT members saying PAY DOWN YOUR DEBT WITH THE MONEY AND THEN GO AHEAD. Interest rates pile up the longer you have debt. I am saying if Syverud opened up the books of the AD office and was beyond pissed at the debt while I personally would like to see Gross stay on I see it as reasonable grounds for a new AD as long as Syverud wasn't completely destroying our AD and having us deemphize spending completely.

Where did the $150M in debt come from? I've never seen any figure like that tossed about. We see the annual earnings that the school makes from sports. It appears we more than break even every year. We are one of the top earners in college sports. Did you get that supposed debt figure from anywhere, or is it just speculation? It's not like we built a football stadium recently.