Here's the problem with the guard transfers

[rrlbees]

Jalen Carey was our guy. We identified him early, built the relationship, and had a plan and future for him. Now, Battle came back, and when he did that changed the immediate direction of things for Carey, plus he got injured, but he was a guy at one point that was expected to be a critical, build-around-him part of the team.

He accomplished very little on court for us and is now in the portal.

Brycen Goodine was our guy. Camped, mutual love, we locked him up very early and very quietly. He was considered a critical part of the class, likely early contributor, possible push as a starter. A guy that GMAC got a lot of credit for when it all got locked in early.

He accomplished very little on court for us and is now in the portal.

If people want to say no big loss, they weren't as good as we thought, ok...

Why weren't they as good as the staff thought?

This is a problem.

playing time

 

[kcsu]

I think the problem is the way you laid it out. We have missed on guys our coaches really liked. They get to the Hill, and they aren't that good. That is scary on a few fronts. You wonder what our two incoming frosh will really look like. How can we be so wrong? The coaches, I don't think have suddenly got dumb. but there is no denying that something is amiss.

The issue is talent evaluation and roster management. A top 40 kid is easy to evaluate. They are usually going to pan out. Top 75-100 is a different animal. Once we started losing out on the top kids and had to depend on evaluations we started to miss. In addition JB has tried to create PG's out of natural 2's. Goodine, Carey are both guys who are slashers, athletic guys who are not natural PGs. Joe is not a PG. Im not sure why but other than Buddy is anyone even allowed to play the 2? Bottom line is this staff is weak.
18-14 with More Whiffs than Ron Bloomberg doesn't get it done. Hanging your hat on some sophomore commit doesn't get it done. Playing 2 average guards 40 minutes a game doesn't get it done. Having a center who is 6'10 and 185 pounds doesnt get it done. Replacing one of the top recruiters in the country with a green grad assistant doesn't get it done. 18-14 isnt getting it done.

 

[dasher]

The issue is talent evaluation and roster management. A top 40 kid is easy to evaluate. They are usually going to pan out. Top 75-100 is a different animal. Once we started losing out on the top kids and had to depend on evaluations we started to miss. In addition JB has tried to create PG's out of natural 2's. Goodine, Carey are both guys who are slashers, athletic guys who are not natural PGs. Joe is not a PG. Im not sure why but other than Buddy is anyone even allowed to play the 2? Bottom line is this staff is weak.
18-14 with More Whiffs than Ron Bloomberg doesn't get it done. Hanging your hat on some sophomore commit doesn't get it done. Playing 2 average guards 40 minutes a game doesn't get it done. Having a center who is 6'10 and 185 pounds doesnt get it done. Replacing one of the top recruiters in the country with a green grad assistant doesn't get it done. 18-14 isnt getting it done.

Didn't hopkins get replaced by Allen griffin? He wasn't a green grad ass't.

 

[cuse10]

Should we include Kaleb on this list?

Tossed in the fire early, but when he went to Creighton he was a non factor there as well.

The misses hurt and hurt badly. Recruiting isn't an exact science, but sheesh.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Didn't hopkins get replaced by Allen griffin? He wasn't a green grad ass't.

Correct. He was at Dayton.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Tossed in the fire early, but when he went to Creighton he was a non factor there as well.

The misses hurt and hurt badly. Recruiting isn't an exact science, but sheesh.

Yes and he was a Hop recruit. This started before he left contrary to popular opinion around here.

 

[Alsacs]

Kaleb Joseph’s problem was he was expected to be Tyler Ennis 2.0.

Ennis in 2014 bailed Boeheim’s short rotations out.
We only had 3 guards in 2014.
Ennis, Cooney and Gbinije.

We should have hit the recruiting trail hard for that class with multiple guards. We needed more than just Joseph.

RF has nailed time and time again Monte Morris paid his own way to our camp and didn’t even get an offer.
Then we lose Newton to Miami and Brunson to Villanova because of the zone.

Our coaches walked the tight rope.

Ennis bailed us out how good he was.
The staff expected a second year but didn’t recruit a big class.

Our problem is we don’t recruit enough quality depth at the important spots.
We get 1 body and hope that is enough.

Our problems are our own fault. The HC has to change how he feels or recruit quality players every year.

If he had Duke talent each year he would get more out of it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Goodine could have stayed if he wanted to compete for playing time. He chose to leave and take the easy way out. Whatever happened to working hard and improving your game to earn minutes. He quit on the program after one year. Think of all the others guys during the good years that stayed after not playing much or being productive as freshman and got significantly better during their second years.

I've been thinking about this post. The idea that Goodine "took the easy way out" and "quit" bothers me. That's loaded language.

There is the possibility that he saw that for the next two years that there is nothing Buddy could do short of losing his eligibility that would take him off the floor. That Miami game? Good chance that represents a fairly common "substitution pattern" for Buddy going forward. It's also possible that he realized Girard is now in the circle of trust. He played 33 mpg as a true freshman. Odds are, those minutes aren't going down, and if they do, not by much.

This judgment that Goodine didn't want to work, I don't buy it. It's not fair to put that on the player. It's far more likely that he read the tea leaves, and saw that his career here was going to be as the "in case of emergency break glass" guard, regardless of what he did.

I'm depressed and pissed about this, because I think he made the right call. He has bigger goals than that, and the chance he would achieve those goals here is a really low. Other guys that didn't "quit" and "put in the work" had a path. Assuming that's true, it's an issue in our program that guys on the roster can't see a viable path for them to play.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Our problem is we don’t recruit enough quality depth at the important spots.
We get 1 body and hope that is enough.

Our problems are our own fault.

This is basically where we find ourselves again.

Richmond has to pan out. If he doesn't qualify, gets in trouble, or gets injured, we're hosed.

 

[Alsacs]

I've been thinking about this post. The idea that Goodine "took the easy way out" and "quit" bothers me. That's loaded language.

There is the possibility that he saw that for the next two years that there is nothing Buddy could do short of losing his eligibility that would take him off the floor. That Miami game? Good chance that represents a fairly common "substitution pattern" for Buddy going forward. It's also possible that he realized Girard is now in the circle of trust. He played 33 mpg as a true freshman. Odds are, those minutes aren't going down, and if they do, not by much.

This judgment that Goodine didn't want to work, I don't buy it. It's not fair to put that on the player. It's far more likely that he read the tea leaves, and saw that his career here was going to be as the "in case of emergency break glass" guard, regardless of what he did.

I'm depressed and pissed about this, because I think he made the right call. He has bigger goals than that, and the chance he would achieve those goals here is a really low. Other guys that didn't "quit" and "put in the work" had a path. Assuming that's true, it's an issue in our program that guys on the roster can't see a viable path for them to play.

+1
Don’t blame Goodine one iota.
Buddy is not Markus Howard.
He is solid player I honestly can’t think of another P5 team Buddy would play 36 MPG at.

 

[Ghost]

Kaleb Joseph’s problem was he was expected to be Tyler Ennis 2.0.

Ennis bailed us out how good he was.
The staff expected a second year but didn’t recruit a big class.

Yeah, I think the second point was the big one. We thought Kaleb would have a year on the bench to get some token PT and practice behind Ennis. Did not happen.

 

[PhatOrange]

We survived the Earl Duncan and Keith Hughes transfers we’ll survive this.

2 great players in 1 season vs 3 mediocre players

 

[cuse10]

I've been thinking about this post. The idea that Goodine "took the easy way out" and "quit" bothers me. That's loaded language.

There is the possibility that he saw that for the next two years that there is nothing Buddy could do short of losing his eligibility that would take him off the floor. That Miami game? Good chance that represents a fairly common "substitution pattern" for Buddy going forward. It's also possible that he realized Girard is now in the circle of trust. He played 33 mpg as a true freshman. Odds are, those minutes aren't going down, and if they do, not by much.

This judgment that Goodine didn't want to work, I don't buy it. It's not fair to put that on the player. It's far more likely that he read the tea leaves, and saw that his career here was going to be as the "in case of emergency break glass" guard, regardless of what he did.

I'm depressed and pissed about this, because I think he made the right call. He has bigger goals than that, and the chance he would achieve those goals here is a really low. Other guys that didn't "quit" and "put in the work" had a path. Assuming that's true, it's an issue in our program that guys on the roster can't see a viable path for them to play.

That's not true about his minutes never going down going forward. Josh Wright was the starter the year before Jonny Flynn hit campus. Flynn gets to SU and takes the position for himself before the season begins. Goodine has a number of holes in his game. I knew Carey was leaving. Goodine would have been the first guard off of the bench had he come into the 2020-21 season with a better jump shot. As a guard, you have to be able to put the ball in the basket from a distance. The times he played, he was often left open because scouting said he can't put the ball in the basket from the mid range or perimeter. This isn't high school where you were the most athletic person on the court.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That's not true about his minutes never going down going forward. Josh Wright was the starter the year before Jonny Flynn hit campus. Flynn gets to SU and takes the position for himself before the season begins. Goodine has a number of holes in his game. I knew Carey was leaving. Goodine would have been the first guard off of the bench had he come into the 2020-21 season with a better jump shot. As a guard, you have to be able to put the ball in the basket from a distance. This isn't high school where you were the most athletic person on the court.

Josh Wright was NEVER in the circle of trust.

 

[orangecuse]

Welcome to recruiting 17-year olds.

Yeah, cuz only if we weren't recruiting that same age group when we were actually good and chasing conference titles, etc. we'd be so much better off today...

 

[orangecuse]

When we recruited Brissett and Sidibie, people were complaining that they were outside the top 100. Girard wasn't withing the top 200 recruits. Nobody knew who Hughes was when we got him. We only recruited Buddy because the assistant coaches convinced JB to let him play for us. Nobody knew they had warts because they weren't even looking at them.

Good frigging grief! The fact that you're pitching Sidibe as someone so stellar speaks for itself. He had a few nice games late in the season and contributed, but wow! Did you watch the Miami game? That team was a joke, and he fouled himself out about as quickly in that one as he did all season. Is there any team in our conference that he would start for? How many P5 teams at that? Syracuse University is the 5th winning program in college basketball, our fan base believes we are in that group right behind those 4 (elite) programs that have more wins in Kentucky, Kansas, Duke & UNC.

 

[Alsacs]

Good frigging grief! The fact that you're pitching Sidibe as someone so stellar speaks for itself. He had a few nice games late in the season and contributed, but wow! Did you watch the Miami game? That team was a joke, and he fouled himself out about as quickly in that one as he did all season. Is there any team in our conference that he would start for? How many P5 teams at that? Syracuse University is the 5th winning program in college basketball, our fan base believes we are in that group right behind those 4 (elite) programs that have more wins in Kentucky, Kansas, Duke & UNC.

I love the poster’s information posts but next year if we have a losing season it will be spun like after all these years why people complaining.

 

[Col. Bleep]

It would appear that three guards...two of whom dreamed of PLAYING at SU...leaving at the same time probably had similar perceptions: no real PT looming behind the starters.
Can't blame them for wanting to play.
(Granted, each one had his own issues regarding why no PT).

It's happened before because of JB's belief in a short rotation...keeping his number one players on the floor as long as possible.
Keith Hughes is the best example.
He had the misfortune of being the relief for Derrick Coleman and Stephen Thompson.
Left for Rutgers and led them to their last NCAA appearance...averaging something like 20 and 10.

 

[bnoro]

Kaleb Joseph’s problem was he was expected to be Tyler Ennis 2.0.

Ennis in 2014 bailed Boeheim’s short rotations out.
We only had 3 guards in 2014.
Ennis, Cooney and Gbinije.

We should have hit the recruiting trail hard for that class with multiple guards. We needed more than just Joseph.

RF has nailed time and time again Monte Morris paid his own way to our camp and didn’t even get an offer.
Then we lose Newton to Miami and Brunson to Villanova because of the zone.

Our coaches walked the tight rope.

Ennis bailed us out how good he was.
The staff expected a second year but didn’t recruit a big class.

Our problem is we don’t recruit enough quality depth at the important spots.
We get 1 body and hope that is enough.

Our problems are our own fault. The HC has to change how he feels or recruit quality players every year.

If he had Duke talent each year he would get more out of it.

Ennis threw a HUGE wrench in our recruiting when he decided to go pro. I have it on excellent authority that even in December of his freshman year he was saying there was no chance he'd leave early. And then he saw his draft stock and pretty much had to go (which was absolutely the right call)

But it really hurt us because it was so late and unexpected and we've been playing catchup ever since.

 

[patcuse]

+1
Don’t blame Goodine one iota.
Buddy is not Markus Howard.
He is solid player I honestly can’t think of another P5 team Buddy would play 36 MPG at.

Name a p5 team where Goodine and Washington would get quality minutes.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

Of the 89 player x season with greater than 100 minutes played since 2011 season ranked by Box Plus Minus, Washington this year ranked 85, Goodine 86 and Carey last year 87.

It also shows that Buddy had the worst defensive BPM, during the same time span, this season, slightly edged out Gillon.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But it really hurt us because it was so late and unexpected and we've been playing catchup ever since.

That it's taken so long to play catch up...

 

[Alsacs]

Ennis threw a HUGE wrench in our recruiting when he decided to go pro. I have it on excellent authority that even in December of his freshman year he was saying there was no chance he'd leave early. And then he saw his draft stock and pretty much had to go (which was absolutely the right call)

But it really hurt us because it was so late and unexpected and we've been playing catchup ever since.

We still lacked depth.
We had 3 guards in 2014 why didn’t go after more than just Joseph.

The staff should have always have multiple plans. They didn’t.

 

[Alsacs]

Name a p5 team where Goodine and Washington would get quality minutes.

Lol Goodine was a 4 star recruit who had offers from Kansas, Duke, Arizona and he wouldn’t get minutes anywhere?
OMG.

 

[cuse10]

Lol Goodine was a 4 star recruit who had offers from Kansas, Duke, Arizona and he wouldn’t get minutes anywhere?
OMG.

And he wouldn't have played there either. Who cares how many stars someone has? Over the last decade, the system is losing its value. More and more elite kids at the high school level are coming into the college ranks completely unprepared to play the game. Kentucky just had a five star recruit transfer in season because he wasn't good enough to warrant playing time.