Here's the problem with the guard transfers

[Day2]

Are we the only team recruiting 17 year olds?

Are we the only team with players in the transfer portal?

 

[Madbiker]

Kaleb Joseph’s problem was he was expected to be Tyler Ennis 2.0.

Ennis in 2014 bailed Boeheim’s short rotations out.
We only had 3 guards in 2014.
Ennis, Cooney and Gbinije.

We should have hit the recruiting trail hard for that class with multiple guards. We needed more than just Joseph.

RF has nailed time and time again Monte Morris paid his own way to our camp and didn’t even get an offer.
Then we lose Newton to Miami and Brunson to Villanova because of the zone.

Our coaches walked the tight rope.

Ennis bailed us out how good he was.
The staff expected a second year but didn’t recruit a big class.

Our problem is we don’t recruit enough quality depth at the important spots.
We get 1 body and hope that is enough.

Our problems are our own fault. The HC has to change how he feels or recruit quality players every year.

If he had Duke talent each year he would get more out of it.

Why didn't we recruit MCW's younger brother for a PG? Went to Creighton and was very good starting for a ranked team until he was injured late in the season. Big miss there.

 

[SWC75]

It would appear that three guards...two of whom dreamed of PLAYING at SU...leaving at the same time probably had similar perceptions: no real PT looming behind the starters.
Can't blame them for wanting to play.
(Granted, each one had his own issues regarding why no PT).

It's happened before because of JB's belief in a short rotation...keeping his number one players on the floor as long as possible.
Keith Hughes is the best example.
He had the misfortune of being the relief for Derrick Coleman and Stephen Thompson.
Left for Rutgers and led them to their last NCAA appearance...averaging something like 20 and 10.

That Hughes was behind Derrick Coleman and his teammate at both places was Earl Duncan, who was behind Sherman Douglas. Raise your hand if you wanted to see Hughes and Duncan out there rather than Coleman or Douglas. Carey, Goodine and Washington didn't play well enough when they were out there to get more playing time. I think they left because they believe the transfer rule is about to be changed and that they will be able to play immediately so they are looking for open spots rather than staying here and working on their game so they can earn more playing time. here.

 

[SWC75]

I really only think this is true of Brissett and maybe Hughes with the astersk you already mentioned. Buddy and Joe are solid but their numbers are really a product of the lack of talent that should be in front of then. Sidibe hasn't surpassed any expectations with one year left to do it.

Joe scored 30 points in a game and had a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio when he wasn't even expected to be the point guard. Buddy scored 25 points in half. Bourama showed enough early that people expected him to move past Chukwu as a freshmen. His knee problems prevented that and he'w showing what he's really capable of.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Given that Moyer shot 50% here and 30% there...since those two shot 30% here, would they shoot 10% at Vandy?

I know the answer to this!
The two trains would pass each other in 7 minutes!

That Hughes was behind Derrick Coleman and his teammate at both places was Earl Duncan, who was behind Sherman Douglas. Raise your hand if you wanted to see Hughes and Duncan out there rather than Coleman or Douglas. Carey, Goodine and Washington didn't play well enough when they were out there to get more playing time. I think they left because they believe the transfer rule is about to be changed and that they will be able to play immediately so they are looking for open spots rather than staying here and working on their game so they can earn more playign time. here.

Yes, of course.
And Boeheim has said if he gave Hughes more time than the starters wound't have been happy.
And he's right.
That is a coach's dilemma.
He gets paid to deal with it.
How well did he deal with here?
That may not be knowable.

The point in the case of the guards, though, is that they apparently didn't see much playing time ahead.
In Goodine's case people can fairly wonder why.

 

[Gotothehole]

Ennis threw a HUGE wrench in our recruiting when he decided to go pro. I have it on excellent authority that even in December of his freshman year he was saying there was no chance he'd leave early. And then he saw his draft stock and pretty much had to go (which was absolutely the right call)

But it really hurt us because it was so late and unexpected and we've been playing catchup ever since.

Really? We have low expectations all of a sudden

 

[Melancer46]

Been looking at used PS3s and NCAA Football 14 for the last hour...

I thankfully kept my Xbox 360 for just such an occasion. Not sure if I'll actually use it during the quarantine...I'm hooked on the PS4 games at the moment, but NCAA 14, College Hoops 2k8, and Top Spin are still worth coming back to every once in awhile.

Based on College Hoops 2k8, I'm confident I could outrecruit Jim Boeheim.

 

[TinyManInside]

Goodine could have stayed if he wanted to compete for playing time. He chose to leave and take the easy way out. Whatever happened to working hard and improving your game to earn minutes. He quit on the program after one year. Think of all the others guys during the good years that stayed after not playing much or being productive as freshman and got significantly better during their second years.

Compete for playing time? He wasn't going to play until he was a SR. The next 2 years guard minutes are completely set in stone, 75 minutes of Joe/Buddy and break-glass-in-case-of-emergency for whatever time is left. That's why ALL of our non-starting guards are leaving. Duh.

 

[patcuse]

Compete for playing time? He wasn't going to play until he was a SR. The next 2 years guard minutes are completely set in stone, 75 minutes of Joe/Buddy and break-glass-in-case-of-emergency for whatever time is left. That's why ALL of our non-starting guards are leaving. Duh.

You know the old saying. If you can’t beat them put your name in the portal.

 

[OrangeDW]

I thankfully kept my Xbox 360 for just such an occasion. Not sure if I'll actually use it during the quarantine...I'm hooked on the PS4 games at the moment, but NCAA 14, College Hoops 2k8, and Top Spin are still worth coming back to every once in awhile.

Based on College Hoops 2k8, I'm confident I could outrecruit Jim Boeheim.

Thinking of finding my PS2, and taking it back to NCAA 2004 with Carmelo on the cover.

 

[JOC44]

You know the old saying. If you can’t beat them put your name in the portal.

Well, if you don’t think it’s going to be a fair fight, then yeah.

 

[MadNY3]

Are we the only team recruiting 17 year olds?

I think you need help.

it was a macro/global comment on the hit/miss nature to it.

 

[NineOneSeven]

You know the old saying. If you can’t beat them put your name in the portal.

I feel like I should reply to this but I can’t figure out how to word it

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, if you don’t think it’s going to be a fair fight, then yeah.

Yup. This is the thing.

 

[Bayside44]

You are correct by the book but Goodine’s HS coach shut down the interest when the kid said he wanted to be Demetrius Nichols 2.0 and committed to Syracuse so early.

I am not going to say anymore as it’s pointless. But you were right.

Nichols got his tail kicked by JB for a good couple of years before he blossomed. We all sat here in those days marveling at his lack of PT.

 

[Alsacs]

Nichols got his tail kicked by JB for a good couple of years before he blossomed. We all sat here in those days marveling at his lack of PT.

Nichols offense in the first half helped us get a lead and beat Maryland in the 2004 NCAAT second round.

Nichols underachieved his first two years but he always played in those years and then his last two years he was the number 2 scorer in 2006 and was practically BE POY in 2007.

Goodine didn’t get the chance Nichols got.
Goodine only played in 14 of 20 ACC games and only averaged 5.6 minutes.

18 of those minutes were the Pitt game Buddy got hurt.
13 of those minutes were in the 2 BC games.

That left 39 minutes in the other 11 ACC games.
He didn’t get minutes.

 

[Briancuse]

Thinking of finding my PS2, and taking it back to NCAA 2004 with Carmelo on the cover.

I.miss that game. I love my PS4 but I miss playing NCAA bball and football.

 

[Bayside44]

Nichols offense in the first half helped us get a lead and beat Maryland in the 2004 NCAAT second round.

Nichols underachieved his first two years but he always played in those years and then his last two years he was the number 2 scorer in 2006 and was practically BE POY in 2007.

Goodine didn’t get the chance Nichols got.
Goodine only played in 14 of 20 ACC games and only averaged 5.6 minutes.

18 of those minutes were the Pitt game Buddy got hurt.
13 of those minutes were in the 2 BC games.

That left 39 minutes in the other 11 ACC games.
He didn’t get minutes.

The general point was Nichols had a very tough ride to get to his upperclass years, many had him headed into Al Skinner's (what happened to him? ) hands at BC. He had chances to bail and didn't.

I know 95% of what happens with a program we don't see.

 

[sufandu]

Are we the only team with players in the transfer portal?

How many have HOF coaches that have been consistently missing on guard prospects for quite a while now?

 

[moqui]

Yup. This is the thing.

no, it's not

 

[moqui]

Jalen Carey was our guy. We identified him early, built the relationship, and had a plan and future for him. Now, Battle came back, and when he did that changed the immediate direction of things for Carey, plus he got injured, but he was a guy at one point that was expected to be a critical, build-around-him part of the team.

He accomplished very little on court for us and is now in the portal.

Brycen Goodine was our guy. Camped, mutual love, we locked him up very early and very quietly. He was considered a critical part of the class, likely early contributor, possible push as a starter. A guy that GMAC got a lot of credit for when it all got locked in early.

He accomplished very little on court for us and is now in the portal.

If people want to say no big loss, they weren't as good as we thought, ok...

Why weren't they as good as the staff thought?

This is a problem.

context
over roughly the same period
malachi was our guy
tyus was our guy
joey was our guy

 

[sufandu]

Joe scored 30 points in a game and had a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio when he wasn't even expected to be the point guard. Buddy scored 25 points in half. Bourama showed enough early that people expected him to move past Chukwu as a freshmen. His knee problems prevented that and he'w showing what he's really capable of.

And yet combining the above with the leading scorer in the ACC didn't make us a very good team. Cherry picking numbers doesn't tell the whole story. As I said before, they're solid players that get more time than they would if we had the type of talent that should be in front of them. That doesn't mean they're surpassing expectations.

 

[sufandu]

I think you need help.

it was a macro/global comment on the hit/miss nature to it.

I understand the hit/miss part of recruiting. It's the coaches' jobs to hit. We haven't done much of that in a while. Our guys aren't transferring out because they were recruited over by elite prospects.

 

[orangebabe]

It would appear that three guards...two of whom dreamed of PLAYING at SU...leaving at the same time probably had similar perceptions: no real PT looming behind the starters.
Can't blame them for wanting to play.
(Granted, each one had his own issues regarding why no PT).

It's happened before because of JB's belief in a short rotation...keeping his number one players on the floor as long as possible.
Keith Hughes is the best example.
He had the misfortune of being the relief for Derrick Coleman and Stephen Thompson.
Left for Rutgers and led them to their last NCAA appearance...averaging something like 20 and 10.

Yeah but buddy and joe are no dc or Stephen Thompson lol

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Exactly. So why get all worked up over a player who was only going to see significant PT if Girard or Boeheim got hurt? He was a luxury, not a necessity.

No, not a luxury. We won’t be successful playing those two guys 40 minutes a night. We need solid backups.