Hope this is JBs last year

[lionf96]

We need a center, and non-freshmen versions of JG3 and the Canadian

Problems are 70% defense and rebounding

We've needed a center since Rakeem Christmas left.

 

[cuseguy]

Talking to most SU bball fans is like talking to a toddler. Everyone isn't worth the effort. He had offers from Duke and Michigan. The kid can play. He's frustrating to watch on the defensive end, but he has skill. That's my only post for the day.

Girard has talent. But — and l know I’ll catch hell for this — a backcourt of Buddy and him will never be overly successful. They’ll have their moments. But they’re too similar, too slow defensively, generally unable to create their own shot. I want to be wrong, but it’s the wrong combination.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Girard has talent. But — and l I know I’ll catch hell for this — but a backcourt of Buddy and him will never be overly successful. They’ll have their moments. But they’re too similar, too slow defensively, generally unable to create their own shot. I want to be wrong, but it’s the wrong combination.

You are absolutely right...the are the wrong combinational and you’ll likely catch hell for asserting it...JK...

 

[Caboose]

Edit: This post was created in its own thread but some mod inexplicably buried it in this thread. It was originally called "what is Wildhack's dilemma?". Is what it is.

So I have a question about what John Wildhack's supposed dilemma is regarding how he handles Jim Boeheim. People say you don't want to be the guy who let's go (forces the retirement) of the legend JB. On the other hand, how does he oversee the obvious downward spiral of the program? Is JB's status as the Syracuse basketball legend the overriding factor here in terms of Wildhack's decision-making, or is JB still coaching because Wildhack thinks he's doing a great job and he thinks that he'll turn this around and maintain it at the age of 75?

If you are to weight the two factors in Wildhack's decision-making, would you say "JB deserves to write his own exit story" = 90% of his decision and his performance = 10%? 100% vs 0%? What is the deal here with Wildhack and are his hands tied and it's 100% Boeheim's decision? Will this guy say enough is enough? Thoughts?

 

[Chip]

When Boeheim leaves, Syracuse goes downhill. Enjoy the ride.

I assume you've already planned for this?

I mean, the guy is 75 years old.

You can tell people careful what you wish for. But it's like living in Syracuse and wishing for snow on November 30.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I would have held JB to his agreement, not let the high dollar donors tell me otherwise, and started the Hop era.

JB agreed to retire at the end of the 2017-18 season. Call it April 1, 2018.

Hop took the Washington job in March 2017.

If Wildhack held JB to the agreement on April 1st, we would have started the Red Autry era. Or the GMac era. Or someone else's era.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

JB agreed to retire at the end of the 2017-18 season. Call it April 1, 2018.

Hop took the Washington job in 2017.

If Wildhack held JB to the agreement on April 1st, we would have started the Red Autry era.

And when did JB tell JW he wanted to coach past 2017–2018? Before or after Hop took the Washington job?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

And when did JB tell JW he wanted to coach past 2017–2018? Before or after Hop took the Washington job?

After Hop had already left, and Wildhack asked JB if he was willing to stick around a few more years.

The other options were Red, GMac, or hiring a new staff while we were still under sanctions for one more year.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Girard has talent. But — and l I know I’ll catch hell for this — but a backcourt of Buddy and him will never be overly successful. They’ll have their moments. But they’re too similar, too slow defensively, generally unable to create their own shot. I want to be wrong, but it’s the wrong combination.

In terms of the defense, you are correct, but I also can't help but think the extension of the three point line has compounded the problem. It's more space and greater distances to cover.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

JB agreed to retire at the end of the 2017-18 season. Call it April 1, 2018.

Hop took the Washington job in March 2017.

If Wildhack held JB to the agreement on April 1st, we would have started the Red Autry era. Or the GMac era. Or someone else's era.

We had an agreement for Hop to be the coach in waiting before those dates

That's the agreement I was talking about.

 

[orangemass]

This is a unmitigated run away train... Avert your eyes... Not going to end well... About to go sub 500...

 

[SUFan44]

JB agreed to retire at the end of the 2017-18 season. Call it April 1, 2018.

Hop took the Washington job in March 2017.

If Wildhack held JB to the agreement on April 1st, we would have started the Red Autry era. Or the GMac era. Or someone else's era.

Meh. Sure, the timeline is right. But Hopkins knew Boeheim didn't want to quit and also knew the University wasn't about to get rid of him.

Once he left, then the University needed some sort of fall back option and status quo was the best of the bunch.

 

[Alsacs]

After Hop had already left, and Wildhack asked JB if he was willing to stick around a few more years.

The other options were Red, GMac, or hiring a new staff while we were still under sanctions for one more year.

If Hop knew JB wasn’t ready to retire its highly doubtful he even goes to Washington.
Hop did his mentor right. The problem is JB wanted to continue coaching but hasn’t put together a complete roster in 7 years.

We haven’t had a team with 4 quality guards, one legitimate PG, and a big who could play offense and defense since 2012.

I would take the 2013 team. That had only 3 quality guards, and defensive bigs.
2014 the same.
2015 we didn’t have a PG but Rak developed and so on.

Jim Boeheim wants to coach fine then put a together a friggin complete roster.
Instead of band aiding it every single year.

It’s not going to be better next year unless we add a graduate transfer big and that would require more than 1 player leaving the team as one player already has to go.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We had an agreement for Hop to be the coach in waiting before those dates

That's the agreement I was talking about.

Hop had a contract to be HCIW, but there was never a fixed date for that to happen until the sanctions came down, and a 3 year timeline was established.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Hop had a contract to be HCIW, but there was never a fixed date for that to happen until the sanctions came down, and a 3 year timeline was established.

We should have fixed a date.

 

[CusefanATL]

Holy hell. Please pin this thread for the next 100 years so people can see how stupid they look.

It takes 1 player to change everything.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Meh. Sure, the timeline is right. But Hopkins knew Boeheim didn't want to quit and also knew the University wasn't about to get rid of him.

Once he left, then the University needed some sort of fall back option and status quo was the best of the bunch.

Did you know that Juli was working with the City of Syracuse to plan a "Jim Boeheim Day"? They were going to have a huge ceremony on the steps of City Hall, and the Mayor and County Exec were going to issue joint proclamations honoring JB, etc...

They were targeting Sept or Oct of 2017 for this to happen. Clearly Juli was unaware that Jim wasn't retiring.

 

[Alsacs]

Buddy's skillset is exactly what we should want in a great ACC 6th man. Still gets 25mpg and gets 10 shots up and if they are falling makes a big difference. Him getting 40mpg every night and impacting the game in basically no positive way if he makes less than 4 3s is absurd.

Girard is a damn undersized freshman from a small school. In most years he would be getting 5mpg for us to get his feet wet. Instead also 40mpg, while 2 other underclassmen guards are getting 0.

Great job Jimbo, even the blind loyalty folks think that's ridiculous.

If you put Buddy in the Cooney role in 2014 that team could cut down the nets.
It needed exactly what Buddy can do shoot.
It had Ennis at PG and Fair/Grant at Forwards and Christmas/Keira at C.

That is exactly where Buddy works. He isn’t the focal point but makes a difference. He would be the 4th best player on the team behind good players.
This roster Buddy is the second scorer and is a focal point for defenses after Hughes.

It’s just awful how this roster is constructed and it’s not going to be better. It will be the same players playing as now the same minutes next year with just more experience.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Meh. Sure, the timeline is right. But Hopkins knew Boeheim didn't want to quit and also knew the University wasn't about to get rid of him.

Once he left, then the University needed some sort of fall back option and status quo was the best of the bunch.

Yeah, the story being bandied about on here was that Hop took the UW job because he knew JB didn't want to retire and he didn't want to be the guy to force him out. There was a thread a year previous to Hop leaving about him hiring a new agent. Just because all the back and forth doesn't happen on the front page of Syracuse.com, doesn't mean stuff isn't happening.

It's laughable to think that JAB is some innocent bystander and just had a contract extension fall into his lap accidentally after negotiating his ass off to avoid being fired after the 2nd set of major NCAA violations. He convinced everyone that he was only going to stick around until the end of sanctions to make sure that everything would be in place for the next coach which was to be Hop after he signed the coach-in-waiting contract.

Edited to add: it's also telling that all of this was happening over 4-5 years where SU leadership was in a huge state of flux, new chancellor, new AD(s), new football coaches, and the one constant presence at SU was embroiled in his 2nd go-round with the NCAA when most coaches don't survive the first. I'd wager that JAB had the most juice on the hill and wasn't afraid to use any of it to keep himself where he wanted to be.

 

[Alsacs]

Holy hell. Please pin this thread for the next 100 years so people can see how stupid they look.

It takes 1 player to change everything.

What player please tell?
Recruiting for 2020 is done. We have a full roster for next year now that somebody has to go.
To add a grad transfer another player has to go. So whom are you talking about?

 

[chugg21]

If you put Buddy in the Cooney role in 2014 that team could cut down the nets.
It needed exactly what Buddy can do shoot.
It had Ennis at PG and Fair/Grant at Forwards and Christmas/Keira at C.

That is exactly where Buddy works. He isn’t the focal point but makes a difference. He would be the 4th best player on the team behind good players.
This roster Buddy is the second scorer and is a focal point for defenses after Hughes.

It’s just awful how this roster is constructed and it’s not going to be better. It will be the same players playing as now the same minutes next year with just more experience.

And the following year. Do you see any reason that Goodine isn't going to look to bounce come Spring? I probably do if I was him. Jim has made it clear that the backcourt starters are so vastly superior that he isn't worthy of stepping on the court and they have 2 years left.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

After Hop had already left, and Wildhack asked JB if he was willing to stick around a few more years.

The other options were Red, GMac, or hiring a new staff while we were still under sanctions for one more year.

I’ll agree to disagree

So I have a question about what John Wildhack's supposed dilemma is regarding how he handles Jim Boeheim. People say you don't want to be the guy who let's go (forces the retirement) of the legend JB. On the other hand, how does he oversee the obvious downward spiral of the program? Is JB's status as the Syracuse basketball legend the overriding factor here in terms of Wildhack's decision-making, or is JB still coaching because Wildhack thinks he's doing a great job and he thinks that he'll turn this around and maintain it at the age of 75?

If you are to weight the two factors in Wildhack's decision-making, would you say "JB deserves to write his own exit story" = 90% of his decision and his performance = 10%? 100% vs 0%? What is the deal here with Wildhack and are his hands tied and it's 100% Boeheim's decision? Will this guy say enough is enough? Thoughts?

This is the million dollar question.
From my perspective, JW screwed up the entire Hop situation. When he came on board, it was his responsibility to ensure that the agreement made before his arrival was implemented and managed properly.

Some might say that Hop simply had a change of heart and didn’t want to be the one to ‘force his mentor out’. I think Mike did feel that way and that’s why he took the Washington job. My point is that it NEVER should of gotten to that.

If I were JW, I would of sat JB down on day one and made sure he was on board with the transition, then worked with both Hop and JB to make sure it happened. I would of told JB that this was in the best interest of the program and he should not send any messages about extending.

My strong suspicion is that this never happened. JW never gave Hop the vote of confidence needed to allow him to get past his fear of ‘forcing his mentor out’.

There may be more to this. But certainly JBs desire to coach Buddy and JW’s management (or lack of) played into it too.

Where we are right now, is not in the best interest of the program. That’s for sure.

 

[Alsacs]

And the following year. Do you see any reason that Goodine isn't going to look to bounce come Spring? I probably do if I was him. Jim has made it clear that the backcourt starters are so vastly superior that he isn't worthy of stepping on the court and they have 2 years left.

Exactly.
It’s why the coaching is frustrating.
We aren’t going to be relevant this year anyway so play the players and let them get experience.
Instead we are coaching like every game is an elimination game and it’s not.

 

[Eric15]

Holy hell. Please pin this thread for the next 100 years so people can see how stupid they look.

It takes 1 player to change everything.

When people look at this thread 100 years from now, the people who are refusing to accept the reality with JB are going to be the equivalent of Mr. Ismay on the Titanic who was saying the ship can't possibly sink after it had already hit the iceberg.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

We should have fixed a date.

There was one, end of 2017-2018.