How Does This Happen?

[SUFan44]

Just feels like momentum is going in the wrong direction, and has been ever since Ennis/Grant left.

We had to beg, borrow and steal to get Battle to come, and he's basically the only guy that's a consensus top recruit that we've gotten the last two years. White and Gillon were 5th year, band aid guys who were decent but ultimately will be a blip on the screen.

I think Brissett and Sidibe are nice, four-year players and are going to help build the program's depth back up to where it should be, but they're not even Top 100 guys. Let alone Top 50. You can argue Brissett should be and I'd agree, but this class gets a C- as compared to what it could have/should have been.

Probation, no NCAA's two of the last three years, scholarship reduction. Trending downward. Need a big 2018 and to at least make the NCAA Tournament this year. Hope they can pull it off. Won't be easy.

 

[Briancuse]

Just feels like momentum is going in the wrong direction, and has been ever since Ennis/Grant left.

We had to beg, borrow and steal to get Battle to come, and he's basically the only guy that's a consensus top recruit that we've gotten the last two years. White and Gillon were 5th year, band aid guys who were decent but ultimately will be a blip on the screen.

I think Brissett and Sidibe are nice, four-year players and are going to help build the program's depth back up to where it should be, but they're not even Top 100 guys. Let alone Top 50. You can argue Brissett should be and I'd agree, but this class gets a C- as compared to what it could have/should have been.

Probation, no NCAA's two of the last three years, scholarship reduction. Trending downward. Need a big 2018 and to at least make the NCAA Tournament this year. Hope they can pull it off. Won't be easy.

I agree that we need a big 2018, but we need something for this year, or we will become Bc.

 

[normaliswear]

We had some bad luck and bad timing this year... it happens. We get euro and Thorpe we can still have a respectable class. Let's not make a whole self pity thread.

 

[raf4488]

It's a combo of bad luck and not having a very good plan. We were leaders for 2 top 50 players until the last moment, but now it's really late and options are few.

When you have a kid like JT that likes your program, but intentionally delays his decision to see if Knox doesn't go to Duke first, you can't rely on something like that. Any top kid is going to covet an SU offer, but Duke and UK are on their own level in today's recruiting. Just ask Roy and UNC about that, and they just won a title.

If we get Marek and a talented, experienced transfer guard, we can still finish 2017 strong. But we can't continue to afford to put ourselves in this position.

I just hope the staff has learned from the past couple of cycles and lands an excellent 2018 class

 

[Day2]

Brissett is a Top 50 recruit. What are ya, anti-Canadian?

 

[raf4488]

I agree that we need a big 2018, but we need something for this year, or we will become Bc.

This is way over the top. Go look at the kids we're involved with for 2018, and look at who BC is targeting. No comparison. Brand matters, track record matters. We're still a top third of the ACC program and we are still recruiting like one, despite losing top 50 guys to Duke and UK.

 

[SUFan44]

Brissett is a Top 50 recruit. What are ya, anti-Canadian?

Based on one site. He's nowhere to be found anywhere else. And there other Canadians on the lists.

 

[Briancuse]

This is way over the top. Go look at the kids we're involved with for 2018, and look at who BC is targeting. No comparison. Brand matters, track record matters. We're still a top third of the ACC program and we are still recruiting like one, despite losing top 50 guys to Duke and UK.

I'm not talking about 2018, I'm talking about this year, look at our roster right now, and compare it to the other Acc schools, its not pretty.

 

[Day2]

Based on one site. He's nowhere to be found anywhere else. And there other Canadians on the lists.

...Who played in the US this past season.

 

[pearl31]

Based on one site. He's nowhere to be found anywhere else. And there other Canadians on the lists.

Brissett gonna be filthy good

 

[SUFan44]

...Who played in the US this past season.

You're correct. Apologies. As I said, I think you can argue Brissett's a top 50-100 guy, and I hope he has a major impact next year. But other schools in our league and competitors are getting kids that are arguably better.

 

[jdubs30]

Weird set of circumstances make it look worse than it is.

When it comes down to it, we aren't going to beat Duke or UK for recruits very often. If Trae Young goes to UK and Kevin Knox goes to Duke, we most likely end up with Green and Tucker and people would be lauding about how great GMac and JB are.

Our priority happened to be Duke and UK's back up plans, and both needed to use their back up plan. It happens. If we lost these kids to Seton Hall and Georgia Tech I think it would be more concerning.

Point of the story is, UK and Duke are most likely going to get whatever kid they want no matter what you do.

 

[supp]

This is way over the top. Go look at the kids we're involved with for 2018, and look at who BC is targeting. No comparison. Brand matters, track record matters. We're still a top third of the ACC program and we are still recruiting like one, despite losing top 50 guys to Duke and UK.

You can recruit them but can you get them?

 

[supp]

Weird set of circumstances make it look worse than it is.

When it comes down to it, we aren't going to beat Duke or UK for recruits very often. If Trae Young goes to UK and Kevin Knox goes to Duke, we most likely end up with Green and Tucker and people would be lauding about how great GMac and JB are.

Our priority happened to be Duke and UK's back up plans, and both needed to use their back up plan. It happens. If we lost these kids to Seton Hall and Georgia Tech I think it would be more concerning.

Point of the story is, UK and Duke are most likely going to get whatever kid they want no matter what you do.

You're assuming a lot there.

 

[jdubs30]

You're assuming a lot there.

Which is what?

Tucker only got the Duke offer because Knox went to UK. Tucker was down to Cuse and Duke once he got the Duke offer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that if he never got the Duke offer, we would have had him.

Quade wouldn't have come off the bench at UK. He committed first which I think forced Trae Young to think more about OU.

 

[raf4488]

Weird set of circumstances make it look worse than it is.

When it comes down to it, we aren't going to beat Duke or UK for recruits very often. If Trae Young goes to UK and Kevin Knox goes to Duke, we most likely end up with Green and Tucker and people would be lauding about how great GMac and JB are.

Our priority happened to be Duke and UK's back up plans, and both needed to use their back up plan. It happens. If we lost these kids to Seton Hall and Georgia Tech I think it would be more concerning.

Point of the story is, UK and Duke are most likely going to get whatever kid they want no matter what you do.

Yes. If kids like Green and Tucker won't even consider SU, then it's time to worry. We finished runner-up to Duke and UK, just like UNC, Arizona, Michigan St, etc. all have recently.

 

[supp]

I'd like to see what the historical pattern looks like for the top-flight programs that drift into obscurity. From the examples I know best (Carnesecca and SJU, Massimino and Villanova, Thompson and GT), there was steady upward climb, then a plateau with some minor bumps, then things got a little rockier with the odd surprising NCAA run (especially true of some of Massimino's later teams), and then a pretty steep decline. Are we on that trajectory?

 

[supp]

Which is what?

Tucker only got the Duke offer because Knox went to UK. Tucker was down to Cuse and Duke once he got the Duke offer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that if he never got the Duke offer, we would have had him.

Quade wouldn't have come off the bench at UK. He committed first which I think forced Trae Young to think more about OU.

You're assuming that it would have happened if not for Duke or UK. How do we know that for sure? Just as they were reticent to commit to us before those programs got more serious with them, they may still have been if they never did. You're assuming that some other program wouldn't have stolen our lunch.

 

[SUFan44]

Yes. If kids like Green and Tucker won't even consider SU, then it's time to worry. We finished runner-up to Duke and UK, just like UNC, Arizona, Michigan St, etc. all have recently.

Arizona, Michigan State & UNC all have consensus Top 20 recruiting classes. They all also have more talent returning than us.

 

[raf4488]

Arizona, Michigan State & UNC all have consensus Top 20 recruiting classes. They all also have more talent returning than us.

Yes, but my post is still true. Our plan sucked and we got burned on a couple top targets, but we're probably adding 2 more players to the 2017 roster. Let's see what the finished class looks like before evaluating

 

[raf4488]

I'm not talking about 2018, I'm talking about this year, look at our roster right now, and compare it to the other Acc schools, its not pretty.

We'll be starting a ACC POY candidate at guard and another potential future first round pick at forward. We also have two more slots to fill for 2017, and there's a lot that can still happen. Nobody here knew who Marek was 2 weeks ago, and now people are saying we have to land him. Let's see who we get first

Maybe you're right, but it's still too early to write us off for next year

 

[pfister1]

We have clearly had to scramble this year to fill some holes, but there are a lot of reasons for that and I am not ready to say the program is on a downward plane. Most of the core issues appear to be getting addressed (e.g. (i) Sanctions have been imposed and are playing out, they will soon be behind us; (ii) the dynamic of JB handing over the team to Hop is resolved. It's clearly JB's team for the foreseeable future. I have the feeling the transition from JB to his successor will be handled much differently than JB to Hop; (iii) JB appears to be re-engaged in recruiting. You have to have clear leadership. To the extent that JB was backing off because he was quietly passing the mantle to Hop, because he was disinterested or whatever...I think that will be and has been addressed; (iv) to the extent that some of the decisions that were made related to misreading the current recruiting climate I think we can count on JB to learn from any mistakes. He is nothing if not an exceptionally smart guy. He's not going to have come through this process and not learned something.

So while recruiting is the life blood of the program, recruiting rankings and projected strength of incoming class doesn't always tells the whole story about what kind of team you will end up.

That said. Last year we were really happy with the roster we had returning, we were predicting a Top 10 pole to pole kind of season. Predictions are just that. We didn't get the kind of jump in performance we were hoping for last year from guys like FH and TR, this will be a different year different chemistry different cast of characters. We'll see what JB can do with the collection of talent that we have next year.

 

[Footey04]

Thorpe and European guy or see if Cameron reynolds is goin to transfer and get him and we ll be decent

 

[supp]

We'll be starting a ACC POY candidate at guard and another potential future first round pick at forward.

So did NC State. That's not enough to guarantee success in this league.

We also have two more slots to fill for 2017, and there's a lot that can still happen. Nobody here knew who Marek was 2 weeks ago, and now people are saying we have to land him. Let's see who we get first

Maybe you're right, but it's still too early to write us off for next year

What's left on the board might end up being good pieces in time but I have a hard time believing that they can deliver next year. The best we can hope for is flashes like we saw from both Battle and Thompson this past year. It wasn't enough to get us over the hump, even with Lydon and White.

 

[supp]

So while recruiting is the life blood of the program, recruiting rankings and projected strength of incoming class doesn't always tells the whole story about what kind of team you will end up.

We have clearly had to scramble this year to fill some holes, but there are a lot of reasons for that and I am not ready to say the program is on a downward plane. Most of the core issues appear to be getting addressed (e.g. (i) Sanctions have been imposed and are playing out, they will soon be behind us; (ii) the dynamic of JB handing over the team to Hop is resolved. It's clearly JB's team for the foreseeable future. I have the feeling the transition from JB to his successor will be handled much differently than JB to Hop; (iii) JB appears to be re-engaged in recruiting. You have to have clear leadership. To the extent that JB was backing off because he was quietly passing the mantle to Hop, because he was disinterested or whatever...I think that will be and has been addressed; (iv) to the extent that some of the decisions that were made related to misreading the current recruiting climate I think we can count on JB to learn from any mistakes. He is nothing if not an exceptionally smart guy. He's not going to have come through this process and not learned something.

That said. Last year we were really happy with the roster we had returning, we were predicting a Top 10 pole to pole kind of season. Predictions are just that. We'll see what JB can do with the collection of talent that we have next year.

Does anyone think that Boeheim's best years are ahead of him? This is the toughest thing to overcome.