How Does This Happen?

[Day2]

Simple. It doesn't fit their narrative.

THE Narrative (tm)

 

[Day2]

If we got Randolph we wouldn't have taken Tucker. Tucker was originally plan A then we prioritized Randolph and O'Connell.

They're both shooting guards and we were recruiting them to replace Battle (who was expected to be a one-and-done). I think we would have gladly taken one of them and Tucker.

Granted, Randolph would probably be the de facto SF with this current roster.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They're both shooting guards and we were recruiting them to replace Battle (who was expected to be a one-and-done). I think we would have gladly taken one of them and Tucker.

Granted, Randolph would probably be the de facto SF with this current roster.

Correct. I think they were all targets to fulfill our need to space the floor.

 

[Papadakis]

For the record, not sure how Kentucky and Duke have missed out on anything. Bamba still deciding between UK Duke, and Duval will pick Duke. Kentucky has 6 5 star rectruits (Daillo, Knox, Vanerbilt, Washington, Richards, and Green and two 4 stars Alexander and Backer. Duke has two 5 stars Carter and Trent, and two 4 stars Oconnell and Tucker, if this is missing I would like some of that.

 

[Papadakis]

We will be fine next year, we will round out this class with two of the following: Wright, Ayala, Wilson, Duarte, Thorpe, and Marek. As long as we get two of this group we will be fine, the studs are already in the lineup Battle and TT, just need role players that will be around for awhile.
Playing solid defense will tell how good this team will be, which was shown this year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For the record, not sure how Kentucky and Duke have missed out on anything. Bamba still deciding between UK Duke, and Duval will pick Duke. Kentucky has 6 5 star rectruits (Daillo, Knox, Vanerbilt, Washington, Richards, and Green and two 4 stars Alexander and Backer. Duke has two 5 stars Carter and Trent, and two 4 stars Oconnell and Tucker, if this is missing I would like some of that.

They recruit against each other at times and the loser is forced to go to plan B.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Why do so many feel the need to dismiss the final four run as a "freak run", when trying to make their point?

That team was pretty good. Losing the coach in the middle of the season was a huge setback. And then they lost some close games to good teams at the end, in a brutal stretch of the schedule. It was a team that was better than its record, but was held back by a few bad breaks. They played some great ball at times...one of them happened to be in the NCAA's. Michael Gbinije, Tyler Lydon, Malachi Richardson...that's 3 NBA guys. Under normal circumstances, it's probably a 20+ win, 11-12 ACC wins, 5-6 seed type team.

You're right about the earlier F4. I said "freak final 4s" as a generality, specifically about our last one. And meaning that reaching. Final four or not reaching one isn't the strongest indicator of how good a team you have.

But I'm still not buying the losing the coach in the middle of the season excuse. We lost the same kinds of games this past season with JB at the controls. Both years, we were inconsistent both with and without JB.

 

[OrangeDW]

You're right about the earlier F4. I said "freak final 4s" as a generality, specifically about our last one. And meaning that reaching. Final four or not reaching one isn't the strongest indicator of how good a team you have.

But I'm still not buying the losing the coach in the middle of the season excuse. We lost the same kinds of games this past season with JB at the controls. Both years, we were inconsistent both with and without JB.

The difference to me is that this year's team sucked at the beginning of the year. They lost those types of games because they were a bad basketball team at that point. They didn't turn the corner and become a decent team until ACC play.

Last year's team was pretty good right from the beginning. They beat some good teams early in the year. They hit the lull when Boeheim was out.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Edelin was a 4 star I believe, Warrick was barely rated at all, I don't believe he was even a 3 star, Forth was a top 150 guy I believe, I honestly don't remember where Pace was.

Warrick became top 100 after we offered.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

For the record, not sure how Kentucky and Duke have missed out on anything. Bamba still deciding between UK Duke, and Duval will pick Duke. Kentucky has 6 5 star rectruits (Daillo, Knox, Vanerbilt, Washington, Richards, and Green and two 4 stars Alexander and Backer. Duke has two 5 stars Carter and Trent, and two 4 stars Oconnell and Tucker, if this is missing I would like some of that.

I believe that we need to count our blessings. I want to see players that want to be at Syracuse. I mean players like Moyer, Sidibe, Brissett, Battle, Hughes, Washington, etc. players that you will and can build on and depend to be there for 3-4 years (with the exception being Battle who has demonstrated his loyalty by coming back this upcoming year).

Of Kentucky's Commits, maybe 2-3 will play or be with the team two or more years, the rest will either leave for the pros or transfer after one year, especially if Cal does the same recruiting job with the 2018 class. I have a problem seeing Kentucky playing 6-8 new players along with the returning few players from last year. People will be disenchanted on their playing time and transfer or quit. I believe that Sha Alexander may get more playing time in the end than Quade Green. Again, we know that Kentucky will have a 'top 5-10 recruiting class next year also. Some will stay and some will unhappily go.

Regarding Duke's class, assuming they get Duvall and Bamba, only Connell (most likely) will be on the team at the end of their sophomore year. Most will go pro and some will transfer (take your pick on who does what). Assume that Reddish will be on this time in 2018 which will cause a bottleneck at SF.

There will be continued flux at Duke and Kentucky over the next few years.

 

[AlaskaSU]

One other thing another poster brought up. Yes, the Syracuse name still has it's cache. But right now we are a middle of the pack ACC team with no real identity. The Big East we were the top dog. It's an obvious thing but don't under estimate it. We stood out more in the Big East, not so much the ACC.

Our recruiting prowess has diminished. There is no comparison between the attractiveness of a middle of the road ACC team and a top of the old Big East team. We still have facilities that are better than many but we no longer have the distinct recruiting advantages that we once enjoyed due to the Dome, the Big East and the Melo Center. We no longer have a significant recruiting advantage compared to many top 20 schools. We need to once again have facilities that are second to none. The most impactful thing that we could do to improve recruiting is to build a palatial athletic dorm. It might not allow us to beat out Duke or Kentucky but it would sure help when we go against most other P-5 schools. Kids want easy living and they can find it at Duke and Kentucky. Other schools, like Kansas, AZ, OR, are compensating by reinvesting. To save our program we need to have the best facilities but in order to do this we have to recognize that our circumstances are radically different than they were just a few years ago. We are in danger of throwing away the status we gained over decades of hard work and bold risk taking.

People seem to think that it is just bad luck, lack of a back-up plan, or second rate recruiting staff. They are wrong. We need to recognize the changed circumstances. We need to be bold. We've done it before. I hope we can do it again.

The typical P-5 team has occasional success. That has not been our history and I do not want that to be our future.

Since players cannot be paid, in lieu of pay, schools compete by supplying amenities - coaching, training, preparation and facilities. If we want to stay on top we have to compete on all fronts.

 

[Brian Orange]

Our recruiting prowess has diminished. There is no comparison between the attractiveness of a middle of the road ACC team and a top of the old Big East team. We still have facilities that are better than many but we no longer have the distinct recruiting advantages that we once enjoyed due to the Dome, the Big East and the Melo Center. We no longer have a significant recruiting advantage compared to many top 20 schools. We need to once again have facilities that are second to none. The most impactful thing that we could do to improve recruiting is to build a palatial athletic dorm. It might not allow us to beat out Duke or Kentucky but it would sure help when we go against most other P-5 schools. Kids want easy living and they can find it at Duke and Kentucky. Other schools, like Kansas, AZ, OR, are compensating by reinvesting. To save our program we need to have the best facilities but in order to do this we have to recognize that our circumstances are radically different than they were just a few years ago. We are in danger of throwing away the status we gained over decades of hard work and bold risk taking.

People seem to think that it is just bad luck, lack of a back-up plan, or second rate recruiting staff. They are wrong. We need to recognize the changed circumstances. We need to be bold. We've done it before. I hope we can do it again.

The typical P-5 team has occasional success. That has not been our history and I do not want that to be our future.

Since players cannot be paid, in lieu of pay, schools compete by supplying amenities - coaching, training, preparation and facilities. If we want to stay on top we have to compete on all fronts.

Agree. In addition to the dorms, this is where I think an updated, tricked out Dome would really come in handy as well to sell to the kids.

 

[skurey]

Wasn't around back then but how does this compare to the last few years of Coach P?

 

[AlaskaSU]

The last few years of Thompson were a disaster. Georgetown crashed before Esherick. Seemed that Thompson stopped recruiting. Perhaps he thought that he was so good coach that he could win with anyone. Seems that several of the older established coaches went out along similar circumstances. Some of the programs took years to recover and others never fully recovered.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Agree. In addition to the dorms, this is where I think an updated, tricked out Dome would really come in handy as well to sell to the kids.

We are one of the top earning programs. It was nice to spread the wealth but we need to reinvest to keep the gravy train running. Finance a full update of the Dome, put the old locker rooms in a museum, build a pleasure palace dorm.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We are one of the top earning programs. It was nice to spread the wealth but we need to reinvest to keep the gravy train running. Finance a full update of the Dome, put the old locker rooms in a museum, build a pleasure palace dorm.

A pleasure palace dorm is a great idea.

It only took Kentucky boosters a couple of weeks to finance their $12 million party house. You guys should have this paid for in a couple of days.

 

[GooseMutt]

A couple mediocre years (one in which we made the freakin final four) and one potentially bad year(assuming the worst for next year) does not make us "BC". BC has never gone to a final four even in their best years, their down years are significantly worse than ours, their average years are significantly worse than ours, etc. BC wouldn't even be in the running for recruits like Tucker and Green. I may be forgetting someone but I can't remember them getting a stud recruit since Chris Herron almost 25 years ago, who was local.

The fact we are even talking about being at BC level at anything is hilarious

 

[MSOrange]

A pleasure palace dorm is a great idea.

It only took Kentucky boosters a couple of weeks to finance their $12 million party house. You guys should have this paid for in a couple of days.

Exactly. Kansas was privately financed by donors also.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The fact we are even talking about being at BC level at anything is hilarious

Yeah BC is ridiculous, but I could totally see us having a year like UConn last year when they couldn't score at all outside of 2 players.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Exactly. Kansas was privately financed by donors also.

I think it's a Title IX thing. If the university builds a Men's Palace, they also have to build a Women's Palace.

However, if it's privately financed and donated to the university, it's allowed.

 

[GooseMutt]

Yeah BC is ridiculous, but I could totally see us having a year like UConn last year when they couldn't score at all outside of 2 players.

Please say it isn't so

 

[Cusesky8214]

I think it's a Title IX thing. If the university builds a Men's Palace, they also have to build a Women's Palace.

However, if it's privately financed and donated to the university, it's allowed.

Didn't the football team do some upgrade and make a lounge for the players? I've never been in the melo center do they have anything like that? I'm sure the plans for the dome renovations will be nice once they get done

 

[orangecuse]

He was our original Plan A and we backed off. He would probably be here otherwise.

Since the other poster hasn't answered, perhaps you can tell us who Plans B, C and D were.

Life and Mother's Day preparations, etc. got in the way a bit yesterday afternoon, of all things right?

In any event, other posters have addressed your question to me, so I won't repeat. Additionally, my post was obviously (though apparently not so obvious) sarcasm /exaggeration; the larger point I was attempting to get across is that it's very late in the game here and we are well past Plan B. SU typically/historically is not a late signing period school (last year was the first of its kind going after/getting the two 5th year transfers, etc.). Losing Malachi wasn't planned, so a need was filled due to the late and unforeseen circumstances. This year, most felt (even JB himself stated before the season began) that Lydon was gone after this season, and that there were many openings/scholarships to fill. So, the fact that we are still grinding full tilt to fill key roster spots for next season is clearly not ideal and atypical when looking how SU has primarily recruited over recent decades.

 

[Day2]

Life and Mother's Day preparations, etc. got in the way a bit yesterday afternoon, of all things right?

In any event, other posters have addressed your question to me, so I won't repeat. Additionally, my post was obviously (though apparently not so obvious) sarcasm /exaggeration; the larger point I was attempting to get across is that it's very late in the game here and we are well past Plan B. SU typically/historically is not a late signing period school (last year was the first of its kind going after/getting the two 5th year transfers, etc.). Losing Malachi wasn't planned, so a need was filled due to the late and unforeseen circumstances. This year, most felt (even JB himself stated before the season began) that Lydon was gone after this season, and that there were many openings/scholarships to fill. So, the fact that we are still grinding full tilt to fill key roster spots for next season is clearly not ideal and atypical when looking how SU has primarily recruited over recent decades.

If we're past Plan B, who was Plan B?

 

[orangecuse]

If we're past Plan B, who was Plan B?

As I mentioned others had eluded to...Tucker was not our Plan A...he may have even been our Plan C...missing out on Randolph (Arizona) and Walker (Miami).