How Does This Happen?

[OrangeDW]

I am strictly talking about next year.

I know. But even if we have the absolute worst case scenario disaster year and win 8 games and come in last in the ACC...it still doesn't make us BC. Nobody bats an eye when BC does that. If we have a year like that, it will be a national story. It will be "what's wrong with Syracuse?" And ultimately people will expect us to be back. Just like everyone knew UNC, Duke, Indiana, UCLA, etc. would be back. The brand is too strong for us to become BC.

 

[newmexicuse]

Not according to Tucker. He said he was Duke's Plan B for Knox all along and that's why he waited.

Plan B ????? - What is that ????

 

[Grbac]

Thinking Boeheim should have made a better hire for assistant coach. An AAU coach for example to start a recruiting pipeline. Instead we have a bench full of Syracuse retreads that are not known as good recruiters.
We lost a really good recruiter in Hopkins and did not really replace his efforts.
Thinking our class would be much different this year had Hopkins been able to step in as head coach instead of the way things went down.

Not to run down Boeheim but everything begins and ends with him period.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We were in better shape in 2001 than we are now. We won 25 games the year before and had Shumpert and Meshaun returning. That team was supposed to be top 10 good and we didn't need big contributions out of Warrick or Pace. Even with the issues that team had it makes the tournament if Edelin played that year. The difference this year is we need guys like Brissett and Moyer to play well right away or we won't be as good as that team.

 

[Day2]

Plan B ????? - What is that ????

Don't act like we don't have a Plan B.

 

[OrangeDW]

We were in better shape in 2001 than we are now. We won 25 games the year before and had Shumpert and Meshaun returning. That team was supposed to be top 10 good and we didn't need big contributions out of Warrick or Pace. Even with the issues that team had it makes the tournament if Edelin played that year. The difference this year is we need guys like Brissett and Moyer to play well right away or we won't be as good as that team.

Agreed.

The only time I remember Syracuse being picked to have a bad year was 1991-92. I remember a magazine (can't remember which one) predicting 15-15 or something. We were on probation. Billy Owens went pro. We missed out on Donyell Marshall and Jalen Rose.

We had Dave Johnson as a big time player and Autry as a returning starter with potential to develop into a bigtime player(he didn't for another year). Conrad McRae had potential but hadn't played much or done much at that time. Nobody knew Moten was going to come in and average 18 ppg. Without him doing that, we probably would've been a .500 team.

 

[orangenirvana]

It's really quite simple.

If you're recruiting a kid who has an offer from Kentucky and/or Duke - and your name isn't Kansas or UNC - then that kid is not going to commit to you.

"But paying the players will ruin parity!" Uh-huh. There is no parity in college basketball recruiting as it is.

 

[newmexicuse]

Don't act like we don't have a Plan B.

I gave you a like for making such a humorous post !!!!

I guess we have planned for two straight seasons to have our recruiting on scramble mode going into the summer.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's really quite simple.

If you're recruiting a kid who has an offer from Kentucky and/or Duke - and your name isn't Kansas or UNC - then that kid is not going to commit to you.

"But paying the players will ruin parity!" Uh-huh. There is no parity in college basketball recruiting as it is.

Agreed. And there was a time when Duke and Syracuse wouldn't typically be after the same kids too often. Duke only recruited a certain type of kid for the most part. Coach K realized he had to get over that and adapt.

 

[Day2]

I gave you a like for making such a humorous post !!!!

I guess we have planned for two straight seasons to have our recruiting on scramble mode going into the summer.

Was Duke in scramble mode when they went after Tucker?

Obviously we're going after Thorpe and Dolezaj now. That's not a Plan B?

 

[Day2]

We were in better shape in 2001 than we are now. We won 25 games the year before and had Shumpert and Meshaun returning. That team was supposed to be top 10 good and we didn't need big contributions out of Warrick or Pace. Even with the issues that team had it makes the tournament if Edelin played that year. The difference this year is we need guys like Brissett and Moyer to play well right away or we won't be as good as that team.

That's not why I brought up that class. I brought them up because they - along with Duany and McNeil - were the foundation for the championship team. Now I'm not saying we're going to win it all in 2018-19, but we have the supporting pieces in place for one last run. (And that's not to say this year's squad won't be competitive. I think they will be a very good defensive team, with the only real question mark being TT.) A lot of these guys are going to be around for a while. Takes the pressure off so we can concentrate on adding one or two elite players.

 

[orangecuse]

Was Duke in scramble mode when they went after Tucker?

Obviously we're going after Thorpe and Dolezaj now. That's not a Plan B?

Uh no, at this stage in the game, it has skipped over to Plan E...kind of like the 18th inning and we are getting ready to pitch our 3rd baseman... :bang:

 

[Edfromsodus]

Injuries to Chuku, Coleman and Moyer hurt this year. Not to mention Battle missing a few key games like Pitt. We win that and we're in the tournament.

Losing players early and Diage didn't help.

We went after some big recruits and lost out to UK and Duke. No shame in that.

The sanctions and coach in waiting also hurt recruiting.

Jimmy has a plan, and always seems to find some hidden gems. 2018 class is looking strong.

 

[Day2]

Uh no, at this stage in the game, it has skipped over to Plan E...kind of like the 18th inning and we are getting ready to pitch our 3rd baseman... :bang:

Oh really? Then please tell me who Plan B was. And Plan C. And Plan D.

There's a difference between not having a Plan B and not liking a Plan B.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The trouble for us in 17 has actually been UK and Duke striking out on their top choices. Normally you are not going to be fighting programs of that caliber for that level of player. Honestly Green and Tucker are both wheelhouse recruits for Syracuse and that means they would never even get a whiff from UK and only in a disaster would Duke get involved with somebody like Tucker. So I guess it is really the decline of UK and Duke that we should be talking about.

 

[Day2]

The trouble for us in 17 has actually been UK and Duke striking out on their top choices. Normally you are not going to be fighting programs of that caliber for that level of player. Honestly Green and Tucker are both wheelhouse recruits for Syracuse and that means they would never even get a whiff from UK and only in a disaster would Duke get involved with somebody like Tucker. So I guess it is really the decline of UK and Duke that we should be talking about.

And because you have two elite programs losing bunches and bunches of freshmen and sophomores every year, the second tier prospects understand there might be a place for them at those schools. We used to get guys when they were juniors in HS. Those days are gone.

 

[newmexicuse]

Was Duke in scramble mode when they went after Tucker?

Obviously we're going after Thorpe and Dolezaj now. That's not a Plan B?

Well to be precise, tucker was not our original plan a. If we had a legitimate plan b last fall, we would not be up to plan e in the words of another poster.

 

[Brian Orange]

One other thing another poster brought up. Yes, the Syracuse name still has it's cache. But right now we are a middle of the pack ACC team with no real identity. The Big East we were the top dog. It's an obvious thing but don't under estimate it. We stood out more in the Big East, not so much the ACC.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Jayzus. So much anger over someone saying "we're BC." It's hyperbole. You should be able to get the point without taking that 100% literally.

Whatever JB has meant to us over the last 40 years, today he represents limbo.

If his supporters believe he's at the top of his game somehow, and re-energized, and a killer of Father Time, he still needs the horses and we are striking out with important pieces. Scrambling to pick up Plans B isn't the best way to create a sustainable path out of the middle of the conference. And freak final 4s are not evidence that we aren't a middle of the conference team.

Some of us want to believe we are an elite program, but currently we are not and getting played with like a ball of yarn by a couple of kittens has demonstrated that. There is Elite, and then there is everyone else, and if we were near the top of the everyone else, we have been slipping.

I'm anxious and hopeful re Brissett and Moyer, and who ever we might add for 17-18, but so are all the other teams that finished above us, with their own newcomers.

 

[Day2]

Well to be precise, tucker was not our original plan a. If we had a legitimate plan b last fall, we would not be up to plan e in the words of another poster.

He was our original Plan A and we backed off. He would probably be here otherwise.

Since the other poster hasn't answered, perhaps you can tell us who Plans B, C and D were.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If we got Randolph we wouldn't have taken Tucker. Tucker was originally plan A then we prioritized Randolph and O'Connell.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

If we got Randolph we wouldn't have taken Tucker. Tucker was originally plan A then we prioritized Randolph and O'Connell.

Yes, if we had gotten O'Connell who was going to commit first, we would not have gone after Tucker. Randolph was always in the plans. Something screwed that up.

 

[OrangeDW]

Jayzus. So much anger over someone saying "we're BC." It's hyperbole. You should be able to get the point without taking that 100% literally.

Whatever JB has meant to us over the last 40 years, today he represents limbo.

If his supporters believe he's at the top of his game somehow, and re-energized, and a killer of Father Time, he still needs the horses and we are striking out with important pieces. Scrambling to pick up Plans B isn't the best way to create a sustainable path out of the middle of the conference. And freak final 4s are not evidence that we aren't a middle of the conference team.

Some of us want to believe we are an elite program, but currently we are not and getting played with like a ball of yarn by a couple of kittens has demonstrated that. There is Elite, and then there is everyone else, and if we were near the top of the everyone else, we have been slipping.

I'm anxious and hopeful re Brissett and Moyer, and who ever we might add for 17-18, but so are all the other teams that finished above us, with their own newcomers.

Why do so many feel the need to dismiss the final four run as a "freak run", when trying to make their point?

That team was pretty good. Losing the coach in the middle of the season was a huge setback. And then they lost some close games to good teams at the end, in a brutal stretch of the schedule. It was a team that was better than its record, but was held back by a few bad breaks. They played some great ball at times...one of them happened to be in the NCAA's. Michael Gbinije, Tyler Lydon, Malachi Richardson...that's 3 NBA guys. Under normal circumstances, it's probably a 20+ win, 11-12 ACC wins, 5-6 seed type team.

 

[Tobias Funke]

Why do so many feel the need to dismiss the final four run as a "freak run", when trying to make their point?

That team was pretty good. Losing the coach in the middle of the season was a huge setback. And then they lost some close games to good teams at the end, in a brutal stretch of the schedule. It was a team that was better than its record, but was held back by a few bad breaks. They played some great ball at times...one of them happened to be in the NCAA's. Michael Gbinije, Tyler Lydon, Malachi Richardson...that's 3 NBA guys. Under normal circumstances, it's probably a 20+ win, 11-12 ACC wins, 5-6 seed type team.

Simple. It doesn't fit their narrative.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Why do so many feel the need to dismiss the final four run as a "freak run", when trying to make their point?

That team was pretty good. Losing the coach in the middle of the season was a huge setback. And then they lost some close games to good teams at the end, in a brutal stretch of the schedule. It was a team that was better than its record, but was held back by a few bad breaks. They played some great ball at times...one of them happened to be in the NCAA's. Michael Gbinije, Tyler Lydon, Malachi Richardson...that's 3 NBA guys. Under normal circumstances, it's probably a 20+ win, 11-12 ACC wins, 5-6 seed type team.

Yeah I'm in agreement with the 15-16 team. It was pretty talented. If we had a Baye Keira type around them instead of Dajuan we probably win even more games. That was just a weird year. Lots of great wins with some terrible losses mixed in.

Edit: I'm also higher than most on those 3 guys NBA potential because they all can shoot it.