I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

[HRE Otto IV]

Agreed, we need him to be better against better competition.

But that's not the standard being applied to Shrader.

Why?

We know Tommy cannot get it done vs P5 teams. We don't know what Shrader can do. There is a reason why Dino brought him in and hasn't chosen a starting QB yet.

 

[Cuseregular]

This makes no sense to me.

Among the knocks on DeVito were that when plays broke down he falls apart, he's one dimensional as a passer, and he takes too many sacks that he could throw the ball away on.

The DeVito we're seeing this season has made plays scrambling and moving out of the pocket to complete passes to keep drives alive, is having pretty good success keeping the ball on RPO, and has avoided some sacks by throwing it oob.

That's a QB that's getting better.

Meanwhile there's this belief that Shrader is just going to get better the more he's out there because of... reasons?

And granted, small sample size, but did the dude look much different today vs against Rutgers? Looked like the same guy to me.

This is what I think is happening - DeVito has too much baggage for some to acknowledge the improvements he's made. Shrader doesn't carry any of that psychic hangover, plus people want to project Dungey on to him, which isn't really fair, or all that accurate a comparison. But it's there. So we get these mythologies that Shrader suddenly becomes a significantly better QB for our offense if he just plays more.

It doesn't make a lot of sense.

If people are in the camp that they just want what looks like the more dual threat QB out there, that's fine. I just don't see how you can look at the way these guys have played and come away with the conclusion that Shrader definitely has it. Especially since DeVito also has a better ypc than Shrader.

There’s no question tommy has improved this year, but the question is and remains the same as ever and so is the answer the same. Tommy’s skill set for success overall in an entire game doesn’t translate to the power 5. Schraders skill set does for many of the same reasons as Eric’s did. Or maybe I should say this, it my opinion it will. No question in my mind.

Some of its purely physical as we saw again today, Devito is small really small (don’t believe what he’s listed at, I’ve seen him eye to eye).

That makes it hard to avoid injury and see over bigger power 5 DL, as well as leading to more often turtle up to avoid injury when things break down, vs all the opposite for a bigger athlete like Schrader who is more of a risk taker, with his body because he’s so big. .

Arm strength it’s TD by a long shot, the overall package to be successful at a school like syracuse where your surrounding cast isn’t full of 4 and 5 stars? It’s Schrader all day long.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I was really hoping that this would be like 2013 where we started Hunt vs the FCS team and then took off the rest fo the year. We went with the younger, running QB over the older passer who wasn't getting it done. When it comes to making a Bowl we have zero margin for error. My fear is Dino waits too long to pull the trigger on either QB and it sets us back.

 

[Cuseregular]

We know Tommy cannot get it done vs P5 teams. We don't know what Shrader can do. There is a reason why Dino brought him in and hasn't chosen a starting QB yet.

Dude mind meld, lol, we posted almost simultaneously on this.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There’s no question tommy has improved this year, but the question is and remains the same as ever and so is the answer the same. Tommy’s skill set for success overall in an entire game doesn’t translate to the power 5. Schraders skill set does for many of the same reasons as Eric’s did. Or maybe I should say this, it my opinion it will. No question in my mind.

Some of its purely physical as we saw again today, Devito is small really small (don’t believe what he’s listed at, I’ve seen him eye to eye).

That makes it hard to avoid injury and see over bigger power 5 DL, as well as to turtle up to avoid injury when things break down, vs all the opposite for a bigger athlete like Schrader.

Arm strength it’s TD by a long shot, the overall package to be successful at a school like syracuse where your surrounding cast isn’t full of 4 and 5 stars? It’s Schrader all day long.

IMO Dino needs to ask himself the following...

Tucker is the O, so what gives Tucker the best chance at success:

Option A- stretching the field vertically without a true vertical receiving threat and a weak pass blocking OL
Option B- stretching the field horizontally, and keeping the front 7 from keying in on the RB with QB runs

The problem with Option B is you invite the Safeties to cheat toward the run.

 

[SoBristol]

What we saw today — it worked fine to play two QBs. Their stats were fairly even. TD had the one big hit deep to Alford; Shrader was 11 for 15 mostly short stuff with a bad interception, and help sustain and finish drives with 42 yards rushing and 2 TDs.
Of course, the MVP was Tucker — so the QBs needed to get him the ball. I believe Shrader will help Tucker more by providing a second running threat, but can’t prove that by how things went against Albany.

With the risk of injuries, there is a benefit to keep both game ready.

 

[Scooch]

We played an awful FCS team and really learned nothing, which was totally expected. I have no idea what we should do, but we pay a HC a ton of money to know what to do, so let’s hope he does.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We know Tommy cannot get it done vs P5 teams. We don't know what Shrader can do. There is a reason why Dino brought him in and hasn't chosen a starting QB yet.

Ok, but what exactly are you seeing from Shrader that tells you he can get it done?

There’s no question tommy has improved this year, but the question is and remains the same as ever and so is the answer the same. Tommy’s skill set for success overall in an entire game doesn’t translate to the power 5. Schraders skill set does for many of the same reasons as Eric’s did. Or maybe I should say this, it my opinion it will. No question in my mind.

Ok, thanks. This is what I'm getting at - folks that want to be in the Shrader camp, it's fine to be there. But you can't really point to what he's done on the field for us as to why there's this confidence that he's the answer now. Instead it's mostly an opinion that dual threat QBs are the answer, or hope that Shrader is Dungey-like.

Because looking at his play, he seems like a dude that can throw a decent pass but doesn't do it consistently, is going to lob some bad ducks pretty often, can make some things happen on the move, and is definitely big.

I'm just not convinced that for sure makes us better.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

IMO Dino needs to ask himself the following...

Tucker is the O, so what gives Tucker the best chance at success:

Option A- stretching the field vertically without a true vertical receiving threat and a weak pass blocking OL
Option B- stretching the field horizontally, and keeping the front 7 from keying in on the RB with QB runs

The problem with Option B is you invite the Safeties to cheat toward the run.

Yeah. Safeties creeping up should open up play action.

 

[Offthedome]

Shrader is definitely more fun to watch. I don't know if he is the answer, but I enjoy the suspense of every snap with him in the game. Also, when the camera focused on him on the sideline there were always several players around him talking and smiling. I don't recall seeing that with Devito very much at all.

That said, I'll support whoever gets us to wins.

 

[Chip]

We played an awful FCS team and really learned nothing, which was totally expected. I have no idea what we should do, but we pay a HC a ton of money to know what to do, so let’s hope he does.

I fear that he’s reading this thread, hoping we’ll make the decision for him.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Ok, but what exactly are you seeing from Shrader that tells you he can get it done?


Ok, thanks. This is what I'm getting at - folks that want to be in the Shrader camp, it's fine to be there. But you can't really point to what he's done on the field for us as to why there's this confidence that he's the answer now. Instead it's mostly an opinion that dual threat QBs are the answer, or hope that Shrader is Dungey-like.

Because looking at his play, he seems like a dude that can throw a decent pass but doesn't do it consistently, is going to lob some bad ducks pretty often, can make some things happen on the move, and is definitely big.

I'm just not convinced that for sure makes us better.

From what I have seen I do not have high hopes from Shrader. I don't think he is the answer. I know Tommy isn't the answer. I rather Shrader prove he isn't the answer than go with the known bad answer. Either way we need to coach around whomever is QB. Who has the more workable deficiencies? That really is the choice Dino is left with.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

From what I have seen I do not have high hopes from Shrader. I don't think he is the answer. I know Tommy isn't the answer. I rather Shrader prove he isn't the answer than go with the known bad answer. Either way we need to coach around whomever is QB. Who has the more workable deficiencies? That really is the choice Dino is left with.

Well, that's bleak.

I appreciate the honesty.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah. Safeties creeping up should open up play action.

They are more likely to play up with Shrader at QB, who is less likely to make them pay with his arm.

 

[Cusefan69]

Ok, but what exactly are you seeing from Shrader that tells you he can get it done?


Ok, thanks. This is what I'm getting at - folks that want to be in the Shrader camp, it's fine to be there. But you can't really point to what he's done on the field for us as to why there's this confidence that he's the answer now. Instead it's mostly an opinion that dual threat QBs are the answer, or hope that Shrader is Dungey-like.

Because looking at his play, he seems like a dude that can throw a decent pass but doesn't do it consistently, is going to lob some bad ducks pretty often, can make some things happen on the move, and is definitely big.

I'm just not convinced that for sure makes us better.

It’s fair to say your not convinced. We did to Albany what Syracuse should do to Albany every year. The thing is wins matter at the end of the day. So yeah Tommy has accumulated some good stats but that is not translating to wins. So the definition of insanity is what again? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Dino and TD keep doing it over again and again and at what point do you say we keep getting the same results, time for something new EVEN if the something new is unknown? At the end of the day it’s about wins and bowling……I want TD and the team to be successful. At some point you just have to go another direction.

 

[AngryOtto]

Agree with most people’s comments that not sure you can learn a lot from today’s game.
Things that were a positive.
D
Tucker
Getting multiple wr touches.
Using the TE
Things that were negative.
Penalties
Things that are still question marks.
QB
TD throws a nice deep ball but against D1 teams not sure he can be affective.
GS does not throw a strong deep ball. Does throw good short to intermediate routes. Running looked good.
Still a question mark.
OLine
Still at question mark. Played better when D Davis went in but have to see against p5 programs.
Figure TD will start Friday. If the team can move the ball and score awesome. If not DB cannot wait to long to make a change.
As others have said tucker is our O. Feel shrader because of his running ability may give tucker greater opportunities.
We will know by mid October whether DB ultimate decision was correct.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I have no faith in Tommy. I think Shrader at least gives us hope.

 

[TheHaze315]

Ish…Schrader can make throws. My guess is he was pressing a bit out there.

But IB is right - this offense would look very Dungey-eque with Schrader full time. Tommy is much more the short passing game with some downfield action.

Personally, I think Syracuse would be better off recruiting Schrader types. We will never have an OL that will allow 4-5 second progressions for the QB on every snap. And Tommy really struggles making anything happen under pressure. Throws a great ball when 1 is open or he has time.

I would rather have Schrader full time - he brings the RPO, read-option, and play action game to the table.

I don’t think this game showed us anything. Schrader made a bad throw forcing it into coverage - Tommy basically got himself killed because he has very little idea what to do when things break down.

If he’s the QB all of our passing game has to be short to intermediate routes, which can really limit our ceiling on offense. Dungey wasn’t the best passer and yet he was still light years ahead of Garrett. Garrett lacks fundamentals in his throwing motion and footwork, there were a few times today he didn’t completely plant when he threw and that in itself will take some steam off the ball, then you have to take into account his arm isn’t that big to begin with.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I fear that he’s reading this thread, hoping we’ll make the decision for him.

Naaah, remember he hasn’t planted roots in Syracuse yet to take an interest in fan opinion.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If he’s the QB all of our passing game has to be short to intermediate routes, which can really limit our ceiling on offense. Dungey wasn’t the best passer and yet he was still light years ahead of Garrett. Garrett lacks fundamentals in his throwing motion and footwork, there were a few times today he didn’t completely plant when he threw and that in itself will take some steam off the ball, then you have to take into account his arm isn’t that big to begin with.

I agree with this. Since we aren’t going to complete many passes down field anyway given our blocking and WRs, is it a big loss? We are giving up the home run ball for more consistent singles (QB runs). Given the rest of the talent on O isn’t that the way to go? It will limit negative plays, limit 3 and outs, and help sustain drives. That is what we need.

Swinging for the fences with our talent is like Cerrano trying to hit a breaking ball.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It’s fair to say your not convinced. We did to Albany what Syracuse should do to Albany every year. The thing is wins matter at the end of the day. So yeah Tommy has accumulated some good stats but that is not translating to wins. So the definition of insanity is what again? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Dino and TD keep doing it over again and again and at what point do you say we keep getting the same results, time for something new EVEN if the something new is unknown? At the end of the day it’s about wins and bowling……I want TD and the team to be successful. At some point you just have to go another direction.

Ok, so let's actually establish how DeVito and Shrader gets judged.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Ohio because Ohio isn't very good.

DeVito loses credit for losing vs Rutgers.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Albany.

Shrader played one end game series against Ohio.

Shrader plays three series against Rutgers, doesn't move the ball on the first two, does move the ball on the third, and the drive produces no points. But we'll give him credit for that because he didn't lose the game the way DeVito did. I guess?

Shrader plays the most he has in any game against Albany, our worst opponent, has more passing yards than DeVito thanks to Tucker turning a screen pass into a lot of yardage. He vultures two red zone TDs from his running backs. Throws a bad pick but give the guy a break, he's rusty, getting his legs underneath him, hasn't played much QB in a while, he's a gun slinger. We're going to give him credit though because we can project that his plays give us a better chance against P5 than the plays DeVito made against Albany... even though the best passing play of the game (and the season) was DeVito's, and also DeVito has better rushing numbers.

Conclusion - Shrader is the future.

I mean, come on.

There's some weird ass halo effect from Dungey and some fans are just done with DeVito.

Short of romping through the ACC the fans that are done with the guy aren't going to buy in.

Which is FINE but let's stop making Shrader out to be some kind of savior. He's a big southern kid that's not polished that the pirate decided was better suited to WR even though as a true freshman he made a cool helicopter play against the SEC.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I can’t think of many multi qb scenarios that worked aside from OSU and Bama.

Im not impressed by either option and wish Jacobian got some play vs Albany.

I don’t think the staff can switch them in and out at appropriate times and we’re already an offense that’s perpetually out of sync.

I say pick one

Guess what.. single qbs would have worked at either of those spots and you really don’t see much two QB spots so you don’t know if it would work. If you’re trying two QBs it’s likely if you chose one of them it wouldn’t work either.

 

[Cuseregular]

Ok, so let's actually establish how DeVito and Shrader gets judged.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Ohio because Ohio isn't very good.

DeVito loses credit for losing vs Rutgers.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Albany.

Shrader played one end game series against Ohio.

Shrader plays three series against Rutgers, doesn't move the ball on the first two, does move the ball on the third, and the drive produces no points. But we'll give him credit for that because he didn't lose the game the way DeVito did. I guess?

Shrader plays the most he has in any game against Albany, our worst opponent, has more passing yards than DeVito thanks to Tucker turning a screen pass into a lot of yardage. He vultures two red zone TDs from his running backs. Throws a bad pick but give the guy a break, he's rusty, getting his legs underneath him, hasn't played much QB in a while, he's a gun slinger. We're going to give him credit though because we can project that his plays give us a better chance against P5 than the plays DeVito made against Albany... even though the best passing play of the game (and the season) was DeVito's, and also DeVito has better rushing numbers.

Conclusion - Shrader is the future.

I mean, come on.

There's some weird ass halo effect from Dungey and some fans are just done with DeVito.

Short of romping through the ACC the fans that are done with the guy aren't going to buy in.

Which is FINE but let's stop making Shrader out to be some kind of savior. He's a big southern kid that's not polished that the pirate decided was better suited to WR even though as a true freshman he made a cool helicopter play against the SEC.

Ok some good legit points made here, but I’ll remind you of this post when tommy struggles going forward and Shrader comes in to save the day and a bowl game season, a savior if you will. That said if Devito leads us there (wont happen) you can look back on mine and I’ll be happy to be the one eating crow. Let the games begin!

 

[TheHaze315]

I agree with this. Since we aren’t going to complete many passes down field anyway given our blocking and WRs, is it a big loss? We are giving up the home run ball for more consistent singles (QB runs). Given the rest of the talent on O isn’t that the way to go? It will limit negative plays, limit 3 and outs, and help sustain drives. That is what we need.

Swinging for the fences with our talent is like Cerrano trying to hit a breaking ball.

The issue I see with this is when we get in ACC play the defenses could stack the box and leave our receivers on an island with their DBs and dare Garrett to beat us with his arm. And I don’t trust Garrett to be able to make those throws. And as you mentioned our WRs aren’t necessarily a strong suit for us outside of Taj and even Taj struggles with drops, especially in key moments, so what have they done to gain our trust to make those plays themselves? I see the argument made for Garrett, but me personally even after all the baggage i’ve thrown at Tommy, I think he gives us the best chance to win.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Agreed, we need him to be better against better competition.

But that's not the standard being applied to Shrader.

Why?

I’m with you on this. I don’t think either QB really changed anything today.

I think people see that helicopter jump/play that Shrader did at Miss St and think he’s Dungey. He did throw some nice balls today but did he do enough to unseat Tommy? Probably not. Did Tommy do enough to solidify #1? Probably not.

The backup is the favorite player on the team? How about #3? Bring on Morgan!