I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

[All4SU]

I can’t think of many multi qb scenarios that worked aside from OSU and Bama.

Im not impressed by either option and wish Jacobian got some play vs Albany.

I don’t think the staff can switch them in and out at appropriate times and we’re already an offense that’s perpetually out of sync.

I say pick one

I saw nothing from Morgan last year to suggest he should be ahead of Shrader or Devito. Obviously the coaches feel the same.

 

[Trueblue25]

I saw nothing from Morgan last year to suggest he should be ahead of Shrader or Devito. Obviously the coaches feel the same.

Id pray that be the case because Jacobian was a true freshman starting against the ACC.

Shrader and Devito are multi year players. They’re the present, not the future.

When you’re up 21+ vs a SUNY team you get your third and fourth strings some run. Theres nothing to learn about Garrett or Tommy in the 3rd and 4th quarters vs Albany

 

[All4SU]

We know Tommy cannot get it done vs P5 teams. We don't know what Shrader can do. There is a reason why Dino brought him in and hasn't chosen a starting QB yet.

Do we know that? Maybe two years ago. Last year? How many P5 games did TD play when he wasn’t hurt? And that doesn’t begin to address the OL issues the last two years….against P5 or anyone.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Good logic but , how many times in the last three seasons has TD led to s to come from behind wins ? It seems to me he tightens up when we get behind and starts getting worse. ( for lack of a better word )

2019 our D stunk but when down 15+ points TD had a 153.21 QB rating. That was with 83 attempts so it wasn't a small sample size.

 

[All4SU]

Id pray that be the case because Jacobian was a true freshman starting against the ACC.

Shrader and Devito are multi year players. They’re the present, not the future.

When you’re up 21+ vs a SUNY team you get your third and fourth strings some run. Theres nothing to learn about Garrett or Tommy in the 3rd and 4th quarters vs Albany

Shrader has played one year. And we are in no position to play “for the future.” It’s got to be live for today every single game. Nothing else matters. Who gives us our best shot today!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do we know that? Maybe two years ago. Last year? How many P5 games did TD play when he wasn’t hurt? And that doesn’t begin to address the OL issues the last two years….against P5 or anyone.

But see, that's how it works. DeVito loses credit for actually taking the beating from a terrible offensive line, while Shrader gets credit because we can say hypothetically he would have done better since he's a dual threat QB.

It's magic!

 

[gmoney44]

I mean, he hit Pena in stride, right on his hands.

We're only saying it was too high and hard because Pena failed to catch it.

That play is on Pena, not DeVito.

That pick was not on Tommy. A D1 receiver needs to make that catch. Pena’s hands and decision making have been bad this season.

I also think that Shrader’s pick was a crappy route by the TE. If he runs that route correctly that is a catch.

I’m of the opinion now like most that we need to play both QBs. Let Tommy start and if he falls apart insert Shrader. This must be a feel thing and not a planned you get the 1st quarter you get the second quarter type situation.

This is the way

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Do we know that? Maybe two years ago. Last year? How many P5 games did TD play when he wasn’t hurt? And that doesn’t begin to address the OL issues the last two years….against P5 or anyone.

It isn't all on him but his record as a starter against P5 teams is 2-11 and we scored 20.5 ppg. His stats with the game within one score (losing up to 8 points, tied, or winning up to 8 points) vs the P5 are not very good.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One guy has been here for years. One guy has not. They play two different ways and we don’t have close to the talent or discipline to play two offenses against teams that aren’t terrible.

GS brings an additional running threat that should help our best player, Sean Tucker.

Can TD throw the ball long? Yes. But the way he’s made out to be is like Russ Wilson on the long ball.

We have an OL that bounces between “ok” and “holy cow they are going to get our QB killed”.

We have mediocre WRs, including Taj.

Tommy almost got himself killed yesterday bc he couldn’t decide if/when to slide and probably should have just chucked it out of bounds anyway. He took a big hit running on the sidelines earlier in the game when he needed to step out of bounds. There is a big difference between being able to run and knowing how to run at this level.

Tommy has been here for years. Years. We would have known by now if he could be the guy.

We are a quarter through the season. It’s time to make a choice. We have key games coming up if we want to go to a bowl.

I get that GS isn’t lighting it up like the Fourth of July, but are we really going to put added pressure on our offense, which has basically one good player, bc we can’t figure out who should be behind center?

Make the switch. Use the RBs and GS to run and pass off the ability to run, make all FGs from 45 and in and have our defense keep us in the game.

There is no cheat code here. Our OL isn’t great or deep. Our WRs aren’t great. Our RB crew is the only one on offense that is at a real P5 level if we’re being honest so we need to unlock what we can with GS. We know what we have with TD and it’s not tailored for this team.

I completely get the logic of all of this.

Thing is, Dino made his bed here. If what you described is all correct, well, Dino needed to have "the talk" with DeVito so we could start fresh instead of getting to this point.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That pick was not on Tommy. A D1 receiver needs to make that catch. Pena’s hands and decision making have been bad this season.

I also think that Shrader’s pick was a crappy route by the TE. If he runs that route correctly that is a catch.

I’m of the opinion now like most that we need to play both QBs. Let Tommy start and if he falls apart insert Shrader. This must be a feel thing and not a planned you get the 1st quarter you get the second quarter type situation.

This is the way

I'd be fine with this.

Dino can say "Tommy is our starter and we like what Garrett brings to the offense so we'll play both QBs."

Done.

And if one completely sucks or makes huge strides then reassess.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If TD puts up 28 points on Rutgers we are likely not having this discussion right?

Probably not.

But I'd feel a lot more confident in DeVito getting us to 28 if his rhythm isn't disrupted by putting him on the bench for the 2nd quarter so we can see what we have with Shrader.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

I mean, he hit Pena in stride, right on his hands.

We're only saying it was too high and hard because Pena failed to catch it.

That play is on Pena, not DeVito.

I might argue that the play might be on the receiver 5 yards behind and Pena. That seemed like it was an odd bunching. I haven’t rewatched the game yet but it looked like the second receiver was too close to Pena to be a viable option.

But the ball hit Pena in the hands… should be on him

 

[Cuse1985]

If you want a run pass option run heavy short passing game then it’s schrader. Otherwise it’s devito. Two qbs never works and only worked at Alabama because they are nfl qbs. What ever offense babers thinks will win more games then that’s what you roll with. Neither one is great and clearly can’t separate.

 

[Cuseregular]

But see, that's how it works. DeVito loses credit for actually taking the beating from a terrible offensive line, while Shrader gets credit because we can say hypothetically he would have done better since he's a dual threat QB.

It's magic!

It’s not magic my friend it’s biometrics and observation with the data set in front of one. NOT purely statistics as the stats can be massaged and misused sometimes.

Having recruited a bit back in the day I always look for pure physicality before even looking at stats or play on the field. Since I was in a bit of a time out and couldn’t tailgate Got to the dome early and sat and watched warm ups.

Texted my fellow Fine messers from the stands pregame that #96 is going to be a player and factor no matter how much we blow them out. And that’s before I saw this:

From looking at the kids physical presence and then watching him warm up in drills I knew this was a kid with superior skills that we should go after and may very well have an nfl future. Huge fast quick athletic strong (Did you see his Tim green like sack pulling down TWO players simultaneously!) and to boot a good head on his shoulders (observed from watching him restrain his own players in a scuffle).

And that’s exactly the first thing Dino did post game and I can only hope he said he has a spot for him here and the kid can cut it academically (if he’s at UAlbany - a great school gonna figure this is a given).

Point of all this an experienced talent evaluater can make judgements by many methods and when all put together come to a conclusion re play and/or potential play on the field.

Now no question I’ve been wrong a few times over the years (cough cough -Ashton Broyld - when there were other factors beyond the physical underestimated), but most of this Is not magic nor a shot in the dark this stuff.

 

[Cusefan69]

Probably not.

But I'd feel a lot more confident in DeVito getting us to 28 if his rhythm isn't disrupted by putting him on the bench for the 2nd quarter so we can see what we have with Shrader.

Maybe...who knows. Fair or not we didn't score any points in the 1st Qrtr. None in the 2nd. TD found some rythm in the 3rd briefly for 7 points and then imploded in the 4th. Perhaps the 2 headed quarterback is our best option this year, not sure. Hopefully the team finds some ways to win , that is ultimately all I am hoping for and it matters little how we get the wins.

 

[All4SU]

It isn't all on him but his record as a starter against P5 teams is 2-11 and we scored 20.5 ppg. His stats with the game within one score (losing up to 8 points, tied, or winning up to 8 points) vs the P5 are not very good.

Without doing the research on my own, what’s GS’s record against P5?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It’s not magic my friend it’s biometrics and observation with the data set in front of one. NOT purely statistics as the stats can be massaged and misused sometimes.

Having recruited a bit back in the day I always look for pure physicality before even looking at stats or play on the field. Since I was in a bit of a time out and couldn’t tailgate Got to the dome early and sat and watched warm ups.

Texted my fellow Fine messers from the stands pregame that #96 is going to be a player and factor no matter how much we blow them out. And that’s before I saw this:
View attachment 206433
View attachment 206434

From looking at the kids physical presence and then watching him warm up in drills I knew this was a kid with superior skills that we should go after and may very well have an nfl future. Huge fast quick athletic and to boot a good head on his shoulders (observed from watching him restrain his own players in a scuffle).

And that’s exactly the first thing Dino did post game and I can only hope he said he has a spot for him here and the kid can cut it academically (if he’s at UAlbany - a great school gonna figure this is a given).

Point of all this an experienced talent evaluater can make judgements by many methods and when all put together come to a conclusion re play and/or potential play on the field.

It’s not magic nor a shot in the dark this stuff.

Eh...

I'm not buying it. These evaluations are more of a crap shoot than that.

But in any event, TD vs GS, they're getting evaluated on different things and it is kind of ridiculous.

I mean we have some posters equating having a weaker arm with throwing a more "catchable" ball.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Without doing the research on my own, what’s GS’s record against P5?

I tried looking this up, kinda hard to tell since Miss St. did play 2 QBs some that season. I think his record was 2-5.

 

[FloridaFan]

Look Tommy is a great representative for the University, just as Dino is but the bottom line is wins and losses. And again how come we didn't have drops yesterday with a lot of new reveivers? Because Garrett throws a better catchable ball. We didn't have that problem with Eric, all the dropped passes have been 2019, and 2020. Quit blaming the receivers and admit TD throwing the ball is part of the problem.

Shredder is going to throw more picks then devito. He launches ducks out there. He under throws passes too

 

[alphaorange]

What about the bad interception for a touchdown by Tommy, threw the ball too high and hard.

Disagree. A D1 WR is supposed to catch that pass. Its not like it was a 5 yd burner. It went right through his hands and it HAD to be hard or the DB would have jumped the route. WR had to make a big boy play and he didn't. Not on TD.

 

[All4SU]

The Intangibles:

Every quarterback brings a different skill set to the position. Sometimes there are things that don’t really show up as clearly.

I recall Donnie Mac had a unique ability to make a big play following a bad play. Give up a loss on a play, and hit a big play the next. You never really felt like a drive was dead. Any time we still had the bell, something good could happen. Now maybe that was equally due to the surrounding cast, but the QB still had to stir the drink.

Another intangible is how some QBs have the ability to make others around them play better. Whether it’s leadership or determination or respect, they seem to bring the best out of their teammates. I think Dungey was one of those guys.

I don’t know how to evaluate our current QBs against these intangibles with any real accuracy. I guess it’s a “I’ll know it when I see it” situation. But to me these criteria are equally valid.

 

[Old Scout 65]

What about the bad interception for a touchdown by Tommy, threw the ball too high and hard.

And you would never mistake him for Dungey as he trotted over not quite in time to make the tackle

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Without doing the research on my own, what’s GS’s record against P5?

As a starter from what I can tell he is 2-2. He also played split time in three games that his team all lost.

 

[storange]

2019 our D stunk but when down 15+ points TD had a 153.21 QB rating. That was with 83 attempts so it wasn't a small sample size.

How many wins from behind ?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

How many wins from behind ?

My point is if the starter isn't getting it done and you need to make a change, would you rather be bringing in a running QB or a passing QB? Tommy stunk it up the last 5 drives of the game vs Rutgers. But Dino had no choice but to stick it out. You can't bring in Shrader to try to pass your way back into a game. The only time Shrader makes sense as a relief pitcher is if it is a close game and you need a spark. If you need 2 scores then you are stuck with Tommy the whole way. If Shrader starts then Tommy makes sense to get back into a game.