I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

[CIL]

I see Schrader as a guy pressing too much because he wants the QB1 job. I am curious as to what we would see if there was no Tommy.

I KNOW what we would see out if Tommy is there was no Beard.

I also remember folks saying how much better a passer Tommy was than Dungey.

 

[DPCuse]

Not sold on either guy. I’m hoping our best QB in the program is on the bench (Lamson, etc).

 

[CuseLegacy]

I can’t think of many multi qb scenarios that worked aside from OSU and Bama.

Im not impressed by either option and wish Jacobian got some play vs Albany.

I don’t think the staff can switch them in and out at appropriate times and we’re already an offense that’s perpetually out of sync.

I say pick one

Northwestern if you go back a few years.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The issue I see with this is when we get in ACC play the defenses could stack the box and leave our receivers on an island with their DBs and dare Garrett to beat us with his arm. And I don’t trust Garrett to be able to make those throws. And as you mentioned our WRs aren’t necessarily a strong suit for us outside of Taj and even Taj struggles with drops, especially in key moments, so what have they done to gain our trust to make those plays themselves? I see the argument made for Garrett, but me personally even after all the baggage i’ve thrown at Tommy, I think he gives us the best chance to win.

I agree and it is a dilemma. But I think as the season goes on we see the safeties creep up even with Tommy at QB.

It is weird when Tommy is in we do not see the short passes, QB run outs, WR screens that we saw after he got hurt last year and yesterday when Shrader came in. I feel like these were staples of the O in 2016-2017 and then went away. Do we not call these with Tommy or can he not execute them? Or is it a WR issue?

We scored 60 with the Officer and 30 with Welch. Shrader is better than both IMO. With Tommy we score 20.5 ppg vs P5 teams. I think Shader with his deficiencies can at least match that.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I still think we play both but like the reasoning about playing the QB that is best for Tucker. He’s the offense and whatever helps him find running room and screen passes I am all for

 

[GoSU96]

This makes no sense to me.

Among the knocks on DeVito were that when plays broke down he falls apart, he's one dimensional as a passer, and he takes too many sacks that he could throw the ball away on.

The DeVito we're seeing this season has made plays scrambling and moving out of the pocket to complete passes to keep drives alive, is having pretty good success keeping the ball on RPO, and has avoided some sacks by throwing it oob.

That's a QB that's getting better.

Meanwhile there's this belief that Shrader is just going to get better the more he's out there because of... reasons?

And granted, small sample size, but did the dude look much different today vs against Rutgers? Looked like the same guy to me.

This is what I think is happening - DeVito has too much baggage for some to acknowledge the improvements he's made. Shrader doesn't carry any of that psychic hangover, plus people want to project Dungey on to him, which isn't really fair, or all that accurate a comparison. But it's there. So we get these mythologies that Shrader suddenly becomes a significantly better QB for our offense if he just plays more.

It doesn't make a lot of sense.

If people are in the camp that they just want what looks like the more dual threat QB out there, that's fine. I just don't see how you can look at the way these guys have played and come away with the conclusion that Shrader definitely has it. Especially since DeVito also has a better ypc than Shrader.

Somebody gets it

 

[GoSU96]

I agree and it is a dilemma. But I think as the season goes on we see the safeties creep up even with Tommy at QB.

It is weird when Tommy is in we do not see the short passes, QB run outs, WR screens that we saw after he got hurt last year and yesterday when Shrader came in. I feel like these were staples of the O in 2016-2017 and then went away. Do we not call these with Tommy or can he not execute them? Or is it a WR issue?

We scored 60 with the Officer and 30 with Welch. Shrader is better than both IMO. With Tommy we score 20.5 ppg vs P5 teams. I think Shader with his deficiencies can at least match that.

Huh?

Harris fumbled on a wr screen last week.

 

[kcsu]

Agreed, we need him to be better against better competition.

But that's not the standard being applied to Shrader.

Why?

Because he hasn't had a true opportunity yet. Id play both against Liberty.

 

[baggerbob]

What we saw today — it worked fine to play two QBs. Their stats were fairly even. TD had the one big hit deep to Alford; Shrader was 11 for 15 mostly short stuff with a bad interception, and help sustain and finish drives with 42 yards rushing and 2 TDs.
Of course, the MVP was Tucker — so the QBs needed to get him the ball. I believe Shrader will help Tucker more by providing a second running threat, but can’t prove that by how things went against Albany.

With the risk of injuries, there is a benefit to keep both game ready.

What about the bad interception for a touchdown by Tommy, threw the ball too high and hard.

 

[TheCusian]

This makes no sense to me.

Among the knocks on DeVito were that when plays broke down he falls apart, he's one dimensional as a passer, and he takes too many sacks that he could throw the ball away on.

The DeVito we're seeing this season has made plays scrambling and moving out of the pocket to complete passes to keep drives alive, is having pretty good success keeping the ball on RPO, and has avoided some sacks by throwing it oob.

That's a QB that's getting better.

Meanwhile there's this belief that Shrader is just going to get better the more he's out there because of... reasons?

And granted, small sample size, but did the dude look much different today vs against Rutgers? Looked like the same guy to me.

This is what I think is happening - DeVito has too much baggage for some to acknowledge the improvements he's made. Shrader doesn't carry any of that psychic hangover, plus people want to project Dungey on to him, which isn't really fair, or all that accurate a comparison. But it's there. So we get these mythologies that Shrader suddenly becomes a significantly better QB for our offense if he just plays more.

It doesn't make a lot of sense.

If people are in the camp that they just want what looks like the more dual threat QB out there, that's fine. I just don't see how you can look at the way these guys have played and come away with the conclusion that Shrader definitely has it. Especially since DeVito also has a better ypc than Shrader.

This is my read as well. I think outside of a horrific 4th Q vs Rutgers, Tommy’s been good. Shrader will be a great back up and insurance policy.

 

[TheCusian]

I think with Davis back, the OL takes another step fwd. We’ve not seen Tommy with a good OL and he’s been better this year with a mediocre one. I think there’s more upside with his arm than Shrader’s legs and wobbly passes.

Run the ball. A lot. And play Alford at WR.

 

[WarmWeather]

Babers has said a number of times that he is going to play the QB that gives the team the best chance to win. I understand the rationale behind this approach. But I wonder if the answer to that question (in the case of Syracuse in 2021) is that playing both QBs gives Syracuse the best chance to win (in most games)? It's obvious that both have different strengths (which are impressive) and both have weaknesses. The caveat here is - can the offensive line handle the differences? Can we run plays with both QBs without incurring more illegal formation, illegal procedure, and delay of game penalties than would occur if we played one of the QBs?

 

[RICuse44]

Ok, so let's actually establish how DeVito and Shrader gets judged.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Ohio because Ohio isn't very good.

DeVito loses credit for losing vs Rutgers.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Albany.

Shrader played one end game series against Ohio.

Shrader plays three series against Rutgers, doesn't move the ball on the first two, does move the ball on the third, and the drive produces no points. But we'll give him credit for that because he didn't lose the game the way DeVito did. I guess?

Shrader plays the most he has in any game against Albany, our worst opponent, has more passing yards than DeVito thanks to Tucker turning a screen pass into a lot of yardage. He vultures two red zone TDs from his running backs. Throws a bad pick but give the guy a break, he's rusty, getting his legs underneath him, hasn't played much QB in a while, he's a gun slinger. We're going to give him credit though because we can project that his plays give us a better chance against P5 than the plays DeVito made against Albany... even though the best passing play of the game (and the season) was DeVito's, and also DeVito has better rushing numbers.

Conclusion - Shrader is the future.

I mean, come on.

There's some weird ass halo effect from Dungey and some fans are just done with DeVito.

Short of romping through the ACC the fans that are done with the guy aren't going to buy in.

Which is FINE but let's stop making Shrader out to be some kind of savior. He's a big southern kid that's not polished that the pirate decided was better suited to WR even though as a true freshman he made a cool helicopter play against the SEC.

I think that’s a pretty honest assessment. But you are making the mistake that we are rationale humans.

On a struggling team- especially with a program that has been down- the best qb in the history of mankind is QB2.

Then sprinkle in some expectations- both for Tommy what he was supposed to be after the UNC and shrader for what he is supposed to be with the helicopter play- along w the fact that they are replacing one of the two best QBs we have had in 20 years and here we are.

The major issue for me is I think I know what I’m getting from Tommy but do see some room for development in shrader. And that’s based purely on number of times I’ve seen them play and their overall experience.

Tommy has shown better mobility this year and a better willingness to avoid sacks/pressure. He does not make plays in my opinion. Maybe that’s a function of what’s around him- not a good enough line and no receivers who can climb the ladder to make a catch. Maybe that changes with the o line switch to Bergeron-bleich-serv-Dakota-X but prob vet. Maybe it changes with giving this younger (Alford and Gadsden) and older (cooper) receivers some run.

I hope it does. I really don’t like 2 QB systems but also think neither QB can do everything we need to do on the field to win 6 games. So I favor playing them both and hope to see both improve during the year.

 

[kcsu]

I still think we play both but like the reasoning about playing the QB that is best for Tucker. He’s the offense and whatever helps him find running room and screen passes I am all for

I think Dino should continue to play both as they are 2 very different qbs that will force DCs to game plan for both. Neither one of these guys is the answer but in combination they we might be able to squeeze out a few more wins.
Tommy throws a great deep ball but his issues are well known and are not going to improve much. Shrader gas a weak arm cant make the long out throws but sees the middle of the field better and is obviously a threat that has to be accounted for which should make for a better RPO.
My call would be to play both.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It is weird when Tommy is in we do not see the short passes, QB run outs, WR screens that we saw after he got hurt last year and yesterday when Shrader came in. I feel like these were staples of the O in 2016-2017 and then went away. Do we not call these with Tommy or can he not execute them? Or is it a WR issue?

Those are good questions.

There are some simple plays to get the WRs going that we used to run a lot, that seem like the kinds of plays DeVito's "arm talent" (I think that's a goofy phrase, but everyone knows what it means) would excel at, but we don't often call them.

Why?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What about the bad interception for a touchdown by Tommy, threw the ball too high and hard.

I mean, he hit Pena in stride, right on his hands.

We're only saying it was too high and hard because Pena failed to catch it.

That play is on Pena, not DeVito.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Those are good questions.

There are some simple plays to get the WRs going that we used to run a lot, that seem like the kinds of plays DeVito's "arm talent" (I think that's a goofy phrase, but everyone knows what it means) would excel at, but we don't often call them.

Why?

It might be the WRs and not so much QB. We didn't run them a lot in 2018. That is after we lost Erv and Ish. Or maybe it was the loss of Sean Lewis. We ran them more last season after Tommy went down but maybe that is because Rex couldn't make any other throws. Yesterday we ran them because it was Albany and we wanted to test our ability to execute them. It might have nothing to do with Tommy but the difference is there.

 

[Newhouser]

Neither guy is a difference maker for the program. I stick with my guess Dino rides with TD until bowl eligibility is off the table. After that we see if Schrader can play or not.

 

[MikeSU02]

One guy has been here for years. One guy has not. They play two different ways and we don’t have close to the talent or discipline to play two offenses against teams that aren’t terrible.

GS brings an additional running threat that should help our best player, Sean Tucker.

Can TD throw the ball long? Yes. But the way he’s made out to be is like Russ Wilson on the long ball.

We have an OL that bounces between “ok” and “holy cow they are going to get our QB killed”.

We have mediocre WRs, including Taj.

Tommy almost got himself killed yesterday bc he couldn’t decide if/when to slide and probably should have just chucked it out of bounds anyway. He took a big hit running on the sidelines earlier in the game when he needed to step out of bounds. There is a big difference between being able to run and knowing how to run at this level.

Tommy has been here for years. Years. We would have known by now if he could be the guy.

We are a quarter through the season. It’s time to make a choice. We have key games coming up if we want to go to a bowl.

I get that GS isn’t lighting it up like the Fourth of July, but are we really going to put added pressure on our offense, which has basically one good player, bc we can’t figure out who should be behind center?

Make the switch. Use the RBs and GS to run and pass off the ability to run, make all FGs from 45 and in and have our defense keep us in the game.

There is no cheat code here. Our OL isn’t great or deep. Our WRs aren’t great. Our RB crew is the only one on offense that is at a real P5 level if we’re being honest so we need to unlock what we can with GS. We know what we have with TD and it’s not tailored for this team.

 

[Cusefan69]

Ok, so let's actually establish how DeVito and Shrader gets judged.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Ohio because Ohio isn't very good.

DeVito loses credit for losing vs Rutgers.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Albany.

Shrader played one end game series against Ohio.

Shrader plays three series against Rutgers, doesn't move the ball on the first two, does move the ball on the third, and the drive produces no points. But we'll give him credit for that because he didn't lose the game the way DeVito did. I guess?

Shrader plays the most he has in any game against Albany, our worst opponent, has more passing yards than DeVito thanks to Tucker turning a screen pass into a lot of yardage. He vultures two red zone TDs from his running backs. Throws a bad pick but give the guy a break, he's rusty, getting his legs underneath him, hasn't played much QB in a while, he's a gun slinger. We're going to give him credit though because we can project that his plays give us a better chance against P5 than the plays DeVito made against Albany... even though the best passing play of the game (and the season) was DeVito's, and also DeVito has better rushing numbers.

Conclusion - Shrader is the future.

I mean, come on.

There's some weird ass halo effect from Dungey and some fans are just done with DeVito.

Short of romping through the ACC the fans that are done with the guy aren't going to buy in.

Which is FINE but let's stop making Shrader out to be some kind of savior. He's a big southern kid that's not polished that the pirate decided was better suited to WR even though as a true freshman he made a cool helicopter play against the SEC.

Two things. No one is stating Shrader is the savior, at least I am not. Second TD does get credit for the wins this year. I do think people are saying that he should look great against teams like Albany and Ohio. I think people are also saying it would have been nice to see better play against Rutgers. Based on TDs won/loss history, his performance against Rutgers could very well be seen as a leading indicator for the ACC schedule. Rutgers is the worst power 5 we play this season and how many points did we score? 7 points. If TD puts up 28 points on Rutgers we are likely not having this discussion right? Syracuse and TDs record the last 2 seasons and this season is 8 wins and 17 losses. TD throws a tight ball, no one is disputing that. Again how many wins has that turned into? One last thing, I have been a big supporter of TD every year and would like nothing more than to have him lead the team to some dubs and a bowl this year. I hope he beats Liberty and then goes on to beat FS after. I hope it does all fall into place BUT his results to this point don't suggest that will happen. Really happy to be wrong on this also. TD works as hard as anyone.

 

[GoSU96]

Ok, so let's actually establish how DeVito and Shrader gets judged.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Ohio because Ohio isn't very good.

DeVito loses credit for losing vs Rutgers.

DeVito doesn't get credit for beating Albany.

Shrader played one end game series against Ohio.

Shrader plays three series against Rutgers, doesn't move the ball on the first two, does move the ball on the third, and the drive produces no points. But we'll give him credit for that because he didn't lose the game the way DeVito did. I guess?

Shrader plays the most he has in any game against Albany, our worst opponent, has more passing yards than DeVito thanks to Tucker turning a screen pass into a lot of yardage. He vultures two red zone TDs from his running backs. Throws a bad pick but give the guy a break, he's rusty, getting his legs underneath him, hasn't played much QB in a while, he's a gun slinger. We're going to give him credit though because we can project that his plays give us a better chance against P5 than the plays DeVito made against Albany... even though the best passing play of the game (and the season) was DeVito's, and also DeVito has better rushing numbers.

Conclusion - Shrader is the future.

I mean, come on.

There's some weird ass halo effect from Dungey and some fans are just done with DeVito.

Short of romping through the ACC the fans that are done with the guy aren't going to buy in.

Which is FINE but let's stop making Shrader out to be some kind of savior. He's a big southern kid that's not polished that the pirate decided was better suited to WR even though as a true freshman he made a cool helicopter play against the SEC.

Somebody gets it

 

[syrBossHogg]

From what I've seen TD has been better this year, but in a weird way my gut feeling is I still think they start GS.

 

[storange]

Given the overall talent on O, we should be running the ball or passing it short just about every play. In that case, Shrader is the better option. If we fall behind and need to go pass happy, then bring Tommy in. That IMO gives us the best chance at winning. It isn't about who is the best QB, but who is the best fit for the talent around him.

Good logic but , how many times in the last three seasons has TD led to s to come from behind wins ? It seems to me he tightens up when we get behind and starts getting worse. ( for lack of a better word )

 

[baggerbob]

Two things. No one is stating Shrader is the savior, at least I am not. Second TD does get credit for the wins this year. I do think people are saying that he should look great against teams like Albany and Ohio. I think people are also saying it would have been nice to see better play against Rutgers. Based on TDs won/loss history, his performance against Rutgers could very well be seen as a leading indicator for the ACC schedule. Rutgers is the worst power 5 we play this season and how many points did we score? 7 points. If TD puts up 28 points on Rutgers we are likely not having this discussion right? Syracuse and TDs record the last 2 seasons and this season is 8 wins and 17 losses. TD throws a tight ball, no one is disputing that. Again how many wins has that turned into? One last thing, I have been a big supporter of TD every year and would like nothing more than to have him lead the team to some dubs and a bowl this year. I hope he beats Liberty and then goes on to beat FS after. I hope it does all fall into place BUT his results to this point don't suggest that will happen. Really happy to be wrong on this also. TD works as hard as anyone.

Look Tommy is a great representative for the University, just as Dino is but the bottom line is wins and losses. And again how come we didn't have drops yesterday with a lot of new reveivers? Because Garrett throws a better catchable ball. We didn't have that problem with Eric, all the dropped passes have been 2019, and 2020. Quit blaming the receivers and admit TD throwing the ball is part of the problem.

 

[storange]

Huh?

Harris fumbled on a wr screen last week.

Did he , Not really