I am sure I will get killed for this

[OttoinGrotto]

That forward progress non-call is worse than the Clemson call. You never see referees not call forward progress.

I'm still pissed about Dungey's incomplete pass that was ruled a fumble against UVA his freshman year.

 

[Newhouser]

I just keep going back to, "If you fire Babers, who are you bringing in, and why will it be any different than him?"

Dino Babers didn't invent football. I'm not saying he should go or feel any heat (at least until next year), but this mindset that we are so low on the football totem pole that we are lucky to have him is insane to me. There are I'm sure great coaches out there waiting for an ACC opportunity, even if it is at lowly old SU.

 

[nzm136]

I think he deserves longer than that. He is a great representative for the university, great guy. Tremendous charismatic leader.

He has shown that he will make changes and do what needs to be done, we just need better results. He just needs to find a way to win more games.

Whether that means bagmen, cash or coaching changes I don't know.

We seemed to get penalized for dumb stuff, we might as well do something that makes a difference and is actually a real punishable offense.

Just kidding of course.

You shouldn’t be. Every other school does it.

We’re dumb enough to not and then tell on ourselves when we accidentally do.

Football is a cash-generating publicity grab with a positive impact on academics/student life. We need to stop being holier than the Pope.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Yes, there is talent on the defense. They still look a bit small to me, but maybe quickness will compensate. Power running teams are going to give us trouble, though, if you ask me.

We are a little small on defense, but our linebackers are young and will continue to get bigger and better. I think we're still bigger now than we were last year at that position. Our D-line will prolly always look small to the Clemsons/UNCs/Miamis/ but as long as we got a space eater and some athleticism, we can give O-lines fits.

 

[RF2044]

I'm still pissed about Dungey's incomplete pass that was ruled a fumble against UVA his freshman year.

That was such a BS call.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That was such a BS call.

I'm just saying, I've seen QBs throw passes way worse than that. Yes, his arm was hit a little, but he was in a throwing motion and the pass fell a little short of his target. It went like 15 yards in the air in a spiral.

Fumbles don't do that.

 

[RF2044]

I'm just saying, I've seen QBs throw passes way worse than that. Yes, his arm was hit a little, but he was in a throwing motion and the pass fell a little short of his target. It went like 15 yards in the air in a spiral.

Fumbles don't do that.

...and even worse, the "fumble" was then returned for a touchdown, which greatly contributed to us losing that close game on the road. It was a ridiculous call that gift wrapped UVa 7 points.

 

[orangecuse]

Sure it is but yours defies logic. Big difference.

FWIW, and all due respect, "defies logic," is again simply your opinion. You may choose and are certainly free to not agree with his opinion, however, you minimizing it, etc. doesn't change that fact. You are the owner of your own thinking. The only "big difference" is that he recognizes this premise relative to same.

 

[orangepassion]

The OL was "still crap" because we were starting a FB / TE / part time DT as the fifth starter, because Pat Davis, Dakota Davis, Froumy, Red, and White all out. That's at least four OG's. And a fifth, if you count Bleich getting boned by the NCAA. I'd like to criticize the coaches for the situation of not having depth -- but c'mon -- five guys out at the same position, at the same time???

Tisdale performed fine at OG in his first start. Really need another one of those guards back to solidify things up front -- and probably several of them for depth. Then we'll see how the OL looks. I'm confident that if we fielded Dakota instead of Elmore, that the protection would have been far better than what we saw Saturday.

Why the hell do we have six OL struggling with injuries? Is it just due to the strange off-season, not being in active team workouts, etc.?

Just to be fair-Pat Davis played and Qadir White wasn't out-He's just overweight.

 

[RF2044]

Just to be fair-Pat Davis played and Qadir White wasn't out-He's just overweight.

Davis played two series, and was at about 65% physically. He gutted it out just to help the team, and wouldn't have seen the field if the OL unit weren't so decimated by injuries -- just to be fair.

I believe White is injured as well.

 

[orangecuse]

Dino Babers didn't invent football. I'm not saying he should go or feel any heat (at least until next year), but this mindset that we are so low on the football totem pole that we are lucky to have him is insane to me. There are I'm sure great coaches out there waiting for an ACC opportunity, even if it is at lowly old SU.

Agree.

Babers had success in turning around Eastern Illinois in '12 & '13 going 7-5 & 12-2 respectively. This came after 2 consecutive putrid 2-9 seasons in '10 & '11 in which Eastern Illinois fired their coach and hired Dino. Dino left for Bowling Green afterwards, where BG went 8-6 & 10-4 under Babers in '14 & '15. Prior to Dino at BG, they went 8-5 in '12 & 10-4 in '13 under Clawson. So, Dino at BG kept them status quo to what Clawson had built and what Bowling Green was accustomed to. Interestingly, Dino's success at Eastern Illinois primarily surfaced around a high level NFL quarterback in Garoppolo and his one winning season to date at SU with Dungey, albeit not NFL caliber.

Since Dino has used these last two stints of his as steppingstones to a P5 school in SU, he doesn't have any track record for sustained success, since his gigs at Eastern & at BG were his first & second as a head coach. So, I don't get why some take such apparent offense to a viewpoint that Dino needs to start having success on the field (sooner than later at this point) earning his high paying salary, etc. The 10 win season of two years ago was awesome, exciting and full of hope moving forward. Then last year resulted, which was another losing season, his 3rd out of 4 to date. That is simply a fact. We can all argue, debate, make excuses, etc., as to why only the one winning season, but nothing changes that fact. At this point, for me, year 5 appears quite familiar to those 3 losing seasons vs. the apparent 10 win outlier.

Therefore, in my opinion, I think the jury is still out relative to Dino being here long term. I'm hoping he is, however, that sentiment is primarily based on him winning, and being "consistently good" not consistently bad. If he doesn't meet that mark, SU needs to move on. SU now has the money (being in the ACC and the $$$ coming into the program) to go after very good coaches, even if Rutgers is not as low (considering the worst P5 program after Kansas remark, etc.) as lowly Syracuse.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Dino left both of his first two jobs before his recruits really saw the field. Last year and this year are the first real view into him recruiting to his system. He has proven three times now that he can coach another coach’s recruits. We need him to prove he can recruit his own kids.

 

[NKR1978]

AND - he and the new assistants (and the old ones too) seem to be doing an improved job on the ‘crootin’ trail -

This could be our best class (in spite of some absurd downgrades and low rankings) in at least a decade, probably much longer.

But no, fire everybody now and burn it all to the ground, because reasons.

Syracuse just extended Dino, and he just hired 2 new coordinators & 2 assistants.
There’s a zero point zero chance that ANY of them get fired this year, or even feel any warmth of their seats.

The earliest his seat becomes warm is late next year.

 

[Eric15]

Dino Babers didn't invent football. I'm not saying he should go or feel any heat (at least until next year), but this mindset that we are so low on the football totem pole that we are lucky to have him is insane to me. There are I'm sure great coaches out there waiting for an ACC opportunity, even if it is at lowly old SU.

I agree. I want Dino here for the next decade plus, but the talking point that we could never find anyone else to coach here is just cringe-worthy.

 

[MikeSU02]

I agree. I want Dino here for the next decade plus, but the talking point that we could never find anyone else to coach here is just cringe-worthy.

No one should be untouchable, for sure. But Dino does deserve more time, imo.

However, while of course we could find someone else to come here, between what 1) we can afford, especially with all the current factors (Dino's extension, covid lasting impact on SU financials, etc) and 2) how unappealing this job is, again imo, means that our pool of candidates would definitely ensure that we could find "someone", but I think it would likely end up being a step down from Dino.

To be clear, imo, Dino is the right guy.

I don't think that SU is that appealing. We are now recruiting kids that never saw DNabb play. Heck, never even saw Freeney play. And we don't need to re-hash how SU has invested or not in the program, overall, enough.

The memories I have of SU football are so far from the situation on the ground that there will always likely be more appealing opportunities for the top up and coming coaches.

 

[kuethstheman]

I don't know if we sucked because of play selection but these things I do know:

1. Dino knows more about offensive plays, when, and why to run them than any of us.
2. Dino knows what plays the team is capable of running, at this point.
3. Dino knows which of those plays worked against the scout team.

As frustrating as the offense was, I'm going to give Dino a pass on the play calling.

But if that's the best the O can do while running it's best plays, gonna be a long year.

 

[Pyle]

I don't know if we sucked because of play selection but these things I do know:

1. Dino knows more about offensive plays, when, and why to run them than any of us.
2. Dino knows what plays the team is capable of running, at this point.
3. Dino knows which of those plays worked against the scout team.

As frustrating as the offense was, I'm going to give Dino a pass on the play calling.

But if that's the best the O can do while running it's best plays, gonna be a long year.

uggg the old well he knows more than you do argument eh? Here's a list of other who also without any doubt in my brain know more than we do about runninng an offense...ready?

Greg Robinson
George McDonald
Brian Pariani
Mitch Brown
Paul Pasqualoni
Scott Shafer

Get the picture? None of us knows more than those guys either. It's a dumb argument. Just because I don't more about running an offense doesn't mean I can't see a broken offense after watching football since the early 80s. The scout team argument? Ok so our plays worked against our true frosh and 3rd stringers, again not a really good argument.

 

[kuethstheman]

uggg the old well he knows more than you do argument eh? Here's a list of other who also without any doubt in my brain know more than we do about runninng an offense...ready?

Greg Robinson
George McDonald
Brian Pariani
Mitch Brown
Paul Pasqualoni
Scott Shafer

Get the picture? None of us knows more than those guys either. It's a dumb argument. Just because I don't more about running an offense doesn't mean I can't see a broken offense after watching football since the early 80s. The scout team argument? Ok so our plays worked against our true frosh and 3rd stringers, again not a really good argument.

Not dumb arguments. His knowledge doesn't mean he's always going to call the right plays but combined with my other points, it's an overwhelming argument for humility, as pertains to claiming to know better what plays should have been called.

And you know what? Maybe it's a coincidence but all those guys were worse at play-calling the worse their players were. Hell, put Ben Schwartzwalder (considered one of the most innovative coaches of his time) on the list! The play calling his last few years was worse than all those other guys.

Maybe you misunderstood my point about the scout team. I didn't say those plays worked against against the scout team. I'm saying I think it's likely that the plays you wish they ran Saturday worked worse. Scary. Huh?

 

[Pyle]

Not dumb arguments. His knowledge doesn't mean he's always going to call the right plays but combined with my other points, it's an overwhelming argument for humility, as pertains to claiming to know better what plays should have been called.

And you know what? Maybe it's a coincidence but all those guys were worse at play-calling the worse their players were. Hell, put Ben Schwartzwalder on the list! The play calling his last few years was worse than all those other guys.

Maybe you misunderstood my point about the scout team. I think it's likely that the plays you wish they ran Saturday worked worse against the frosh and 3rd stringers than the up-the middle plays. Scary. Huh?

It is a dumb argument. And I can explain why very simply. Dino isn't calling plays against me. He's calling them against other D1 coaches and he has to be better than them with what he's got at his disposal. It's not ok to question the play calling when we only score 3 pts per half against a defense that was ranked 44th last year? Give me break. We weren't playing against Clemson's D.

Also, that whole worse at play calling when the players get worse? Is that really your argument? It's Dino and his assitants job to get guys here to play at a competitive level. He doesn't get a mulligan for the talent on the team.

Humility? I don't claim to know how to coach better than Dino Babers. But maybe, just maybe, somebody else does! That is the question we are starting to ask.

 

[nzm136]

It is a dumb argument. And I can explain why very simply. Dino isn't calling plays against me. He's calling them against other D1 coaches and he has to be better than them with what he's got at his disposal. It's not ok to question the play calling when we only score 3 pts per half against a defense that was ranked 44th last year? Give me break. We weren't playing against Clemson's D.

Also, that whole worse at play calling when the players get worse? Is that really your argument? It's Dino and his assitants job to get guys here to play at a competitive level. He doesn't get a mulligan for the talent on the team.

Humility? I don't claim to know how to coach better than Dino Babers. But maybe, just maybe, somebody else does! That is the question we are starting to ask.

If you want to feel better about the play calling, reminisce about him not punting on 3rd down.
(Your post reminded me that GRob did that, which puts our current ineptitude in perspective. Also, to make matters worse and/or to be fair to GRob, that call was one of his better calls. I feel like he did it 2-3x, but I only "clearly" remember one.)

 

[kcsu]

The OL was "still crap" because we were starting a FB / TE / part time DT as the fifth starter, because Pat Davis, Dakota Davis, Froumy, Red, and White all out. That's at least four OG's. And a fifth, if you count Bleich getting boned by the NCAA. I'd like to criticize the coaches for the situation of not having depth -- but c'mon -- five guys out at the same position, at the same time???

Tisdale performed fine at OG in his first start. Really need another one of those guards back to solidify things up front -- and probably several of them for depth. Then we'll see how the OL looks. I'm confident that if we fielded Dakota instead of Elmore, that the protection would have been far better than what we saw Saturday.

Why the hell do we have six OL struggling with injuries? Is it just due to the strange off-season, not being in active team workouts, etc.?

Our issue wasn't at guard or tackle. Its our center. His snaps are slow and he cant hold his own. The poor kid was completely overmatched. Watch the game and focus on him. He was destroyed play after play. He was the weak link in the chain. The other guys held their own.

 

[RF2044]

Our issue wasn't at guard or tackle. Its our center. His snaps are slow and he cant hold his own. The poor kid was completely overmatched. Watch the game and focus on him. He was destroyed play after play. He was the weak link in the chain. The other guys held their own.

The issue wasn't an either / or -- it was a combination of factors that all contributed to poor line play. Vett played poorly in many respects, too. Especially with snaps that weren't crisp, getting pushed backwards on running plays, etc.

We have a lot to iron out with the blocking before our next game.

 

[Nicknack]

Reading through 16 pages of this, no matter the argument or perspective, it seems to keep coming back to one thing more than anything else... recruiting.

Remember, Dino has had a vision for Syracuse Football. He had us all close our eyes as he told us. I applauded him then and still do because in order for us to have sustaining success, we have to be sort of a niche program. We can't expect to play the same way as other teams who have better talent. We have to do things a bit different and take advantage of our uniqueness (largely the dome). Dino embraced this when he took over the program. That's one of the reasons many of us believed he would have success here, even before the 10 win season.

The problem though it seems to me is that he can't really make good on his vision. Don't make any mistake about it, he wants to, he just can't do it consistently enough because of the talent level versus what we're suiting up against each week. The fact that we can't consistently get more high level skill guys amazes me. He has already shown that he can showcase guys, particularly receivers. Do top level recruits just not buy into his vision? Does he not sell it well to these young guys?

I certainly don't pretend to know the answer but keep hoping that Babers does. One thing though that I'd like to stop hearing from him, particularly in year 5, is how we will be clicking come game 4 or 5. That's great... we can start to play good ball after we're 1-3. I could understand that kind of talk in his first year, but not now.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The HC job at Syracuse is ALWAYS a lot tougher than any incoming head coach anticipates as well as a new AD. Even Marrone who played here was a bit taken back after he finally got here and got the lay of the land. Now Wildhack is a bit different with his background and knowledge of Syracuse sports and I am sure his vision is to give Dino EVERY opportunity to build a program that can have sustained success. It's not typical of what you see in college football today. Just the way it's going to go

 

[Bayside44]

The HC job at Syracuse is ALWAYS a lot tougher than any incoming head coach anticipates as well as a new AD. Even Marrone who played here was a bit taken back after he finally got here and got the lay of the land. Now Wildhack is a bit different with his background and knowledge of Syracuse sports and I am sure his vision is to give Dino EVERY opportunity to build a program that can have sustained success. It's not typical of what you see in college football today. Just the way it's going to go

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