I like DM

[Pyle]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

 

[javadoc]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

Do you think we need to make any coaching changes among the assistants? If so, what kinds of candidates do you think we'll get if they know that the official plan is what you describe?

 

[bothsocksup]

Is DM willing to put his career on the line for a rookie Qb? I dont think he sheds his conservatism at qb in what might be his most important year...unfortunately

 

[orangepassion]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

Way to Pyle on

 

[Chip]

I think a rational view of Marrone's tenure is that he needs more time.

It's ok to have concerns, I have some. But there's a big difference between having concerns and thinking SU should pull the plug now, or even next year.

If Year 4 is bowl free, you have to do some serious evaulation after Year 5. And yes, somewhere in there he needs a contract extension, but you keep the buyout low and tell him why. Marrone is his own worst critic, certainly he'll negotiate but I doubt he'd be crazy with his buyout demands if next year is a losing season.

 

[CusefanATL]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

Not sure what you mean by that comment. EVERYONE and their mother was saying that this would be a step back year. Most people predicted they would be very happy with a bowl game this year. We lost some serious talent last year.

The only thing, THE ONLY THING, that once changed anyone's mind was the thrashing of WVU. Before that, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5 was what most people were thinking. Even when we were 4-2.

Lets not forget that he won more games this year than GROB ever did in a season. Marrone has easily earned a 4th year and as long as there isnt a step back next year, a 5th year.

 

[Pyle]

Do you think we need to make any coaching changes among the assistants? If so, what kinds of candidates do you think we'll get if they know that the official plan is what you describe?

See if Mitch Browning is available..... Ok not really but your question is one of an enabler. I didn't create the 1-6 record in the worst conference in the country in year 3. DM and his assistants did it. Ultimately he is responsible. Another sub-par year next year, and it's just Grob all over again. Don't make excuses like putting heat on him will cause us to not be able to hire anyone.

 

[Pyle]

Not sure what you mean by that comment. EVERYONE and their mother was saying that this would be a step back year. Most people predicted they would be very happy with a bowl game this year. We lost some serious talent last year.

The only thing, THE ONLY THING, that once changed anyone's mind was the thrashing of WVU. Before that, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5 was what most people were thinking. Even when we were 4-2.

Lets not forget that he won more games this year than GROB ever did in a season. Marrone has easily earned a 4th year and as long as there isnt a step back next year, a 5th year.

Hmmm I seem to remember a lot of comments about an improved offense, and that Shafer could carry the defense even if they weren't experienced. That with all the turnover in the BE that we should be competing for the BE title. Many MANY 8 or 9 win predictions from this board. Let's not cherry pick the few that were trying to maintain some rationality.

Sure DM won more this year than Grob did. I'm not asking for Grob back. DM's best players this year and last also happen to be Grob's best recruits.

 

[Pyle]

I think a rational view of Marrone's tenure is that he needs more time.

It's ok to have concerns, I have some. But there's a big difference between having concerns and thinking SU should pull the plug now, or even next year.

If Year 4 is bowl free, you have to do some serious evaulation after Year 5. And yes, somewhere in there he needs a contract extension, but you keep the buyout low and tell him why. Marrone is his own worst critic, certainly he'll negotiate but I doubt he'd be crazy with his buyout demands if next year is a losing season.

Evaluation after 5 years? How many decades of garbage are you willing to tolerate? We haven't been a legit program since 2001. I guarantee if we don't have this fixed by 2014, we never will. The ACC will eat us alive.

 

[javadoc]

Don't make excuses...

Let's leave out the normative part and only answer the descriptive question: will it make it more difficult for us to hire good new asisstants if Marrone is on the win-or-else hot seat for next year? All other things being equal, since I doubt we are able to offer enough $ to offset the perceived lack of job stability.

If so, then that is a factor we have to consider in deciding whether to put Marrone on one-year's firing notice, which is a separate discussion. IMO, if you think part of the reason we didn't do well is that we have staff deficiencies, but we have put ourselves in a position such that we cannot solve that problem, then it would be best to pull the plug right now and change everything. Waiting out one more year bears a big opportunity cost.

Do you think we need staff changes among the assistants?

 

[Pyle]

Let's leave out the normative part and only answer the descriptive question: will it make it more difficult for us to hire good new asisstants if Marrone is on the win-or-else hot seat for next year? All other things being equal, since I doubt we are able to offer enough $ to offset the perceived lack of job stability.

If so, then that is a factor we have to consider in deciding whether to put Marrone on one-year's firing notice, which is a separate discussion. IMO, if you think part of the reason we didn't do well is that we have staff deficiencies, but we have put ourselves in a position such that we cannot solve that problem, then it would be best to pull the plug right now and change everything. Waiting out one more year bears a big opportunity cost.

Do you think we need staff changes among the assistants?

Hackett maybe. His play calling was as bad as B. White. But I also don't know how much control he really had over it. It's DM's philosophy, does it matter which pawn we get to call the game plan? Not sure. Schafer is good but he had the smallest front 7 in the BE this year. And I think we need someone for ST, anyone, at all... That is my honest answer, The offense hasn't been good since DM got here. Is it his philosophy? Choice at QB? OC? All of it? I don't know but 1-6 in the worst conference in the country says a lot. And it's time we start listening.

 

[billsin01]

I think a rational view of Marrone's tenure is that he needs more time.

It's ok to have concerns, I have some. But there's a big difference between having concerns and thinking SU should pull the plug now, or even next year.

If Year 4 is bowl free, you have to do some serious evaulation after Year 5. And yes, somewhere in there he needs a contract extension, but you keep the buyout low and tell him why. Marrone is his own worst critic, certainly he'll negotiate but I doubt he'd be crazy with his buyout demands if next year is a losing season.

This.

A couple additional thoughts:

-- I like the idea of an extension for the reasons you point out -- you're buying low. So if it doesn't work out you can make a change without getting completely gouged.

-- I've said this before but I think it's worth repeating: As frustrating as it is, rebuilding is not a linear process, particularly when you decide you're going to overhaul the roster.

-- Are people angry with the way Marrone is running the program or are they angry we didn't win more games? I think these are two separate points of view. I'll have much more concern when there is some sort of pattern to the losing, poor recruiting/development, organization type stuff. At this point it's simply too early to really know about the recruiting/development. For now I tend to think a few tweaks could at least make this program far more successful than it is.

-- Can people stop saying Nassib isn't "the answer"? Honestly, unless someone is convinced there is an "answer" on the roster then Nassib is the QB. Whether he's really "the answer" (whatever that vague notion implies) really is immaterial if Miller can't play, Loeb is no better, and Kinder and Hunt are extremely raw. If by next fall Hunt is really showing a solid grasp of the offense and the things he needs to show to get on the field, then we can have this discussion. But until then honestly think the notion that there is some great option not being explored is laughable.

 

[billsin01]

See if Mitch Browning is available..... Ok not really but your question is one of an enabler. I didn't create the 1-6 record in the worst conference in the country in year 3. DM and his assistants did it. Ultimately he is responsible. Another sub-par year next year, and it's just Grob all over again. Don't make excuses like putting heat on him will cause us to not be able to hire anyone.

I'd love Mitch Browning coaching this offensive line.

 

[CusefanATL]

Hmmm I seem to remember a lot of comments about an improved offense, and that Shafer could carry the defense even if they weren't experienced. That with all the turnover in the BE that we should be competing for the BE title. Many MANY 8 or 9 win predictions from this board. Let's not cherry pick the few that were trying to maintain some rationality.

Sure DM won more this year than Grob did. I'm not asking for Grob back. DM's best players this year and last also happen to be Grob's best recruits.

That is called being a fan. A friend on mine swears the Pats are going 19-0 every year. He was almost right... once.

I always have Syracuse winning the title in the NCAA tourney. My only chance of ever winning those brackets are if Syracuse wins or is in the NIT.

 

[javadoc]

-- I like the idea of an extension for the reasons you point out -- you're buying low. So if it doesn't work out you can make a change without getting completely gouged.

Make it an incentive-based contract so that the guaranteed portion is low.

 

[OrangePA]

See if Mitch Browning is available..... Ok not really but your question is one of an enabler. I didn't create the 1-6 record in the worst conference in the country in year 3. DM and his assistants did it. Ultimately he is responsible. Another sub-par year next year, and it's just Grob all over again. Don't make excuses like putting heat on him will cause us to not be able to hire anyone.

The worst conference in the country?

Where did you come up with that?

 

[billsin01]

Make it an incentive-based contract so that the guaranteed portion is low.

Do they do that with college coaches? It's a pretty good idea but I"m not sure I've ever heard of it being done. Even if it was guaranteed, though, just come to an agreement on what is a fair AAV for the contract but keep buyout at a level that's not prohibitive.

 

[OrangePA]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

Ugh.

 

[44PRIDE]

See if Mitch Browning is available.....

Say what you want about Mitch, but he took an extremely underperforming offesnsive line and turned them into a workable unit. Sure their technique was completely jacked up, but he got them to offer ARob some semblance of protection.

 

[Millhouse]

Is DM willing to put his career on the line for a rookie Qb? I dont think he sheds his conservatism at qb in what might be his most
important year...unfortunately

i'll go with the assumption that his career is on the line even though i don't believe that

i wonder why DM would be willing to put his career on the line for a third year of a, um, limited qb he didn't recruit.

this can't be the offense he envisions. no one is that stupid to want an offense with nothing downfield ever. you have to assume he recruits guys who fit the heretofore unseen envisioned offense. the puzzle to me is, how can he be so patient to wait for his envisioned offense.

i'm convinced that he wasn't willing to take on any additional risk of missing a bowl this year. after pinstripe, he thought nassib gave him the best chance of getting to 6 reg season wins. He didn't care about 7 or more wins this year - just wanted a bowl.

next year we have 2 more candidates and a downgraded floor of wins. there should be less fear that a change will cost us a bowl - a bowl with Nassib is uncertain. at this point, marrone should think ahead

 

[Millhouse]

But until then honestly think the notion that there is some great option not being explored is laughable.

your setting the bar way too high. i don't know if there is some great option. I just want to find out if there is an option that doesn't make me cringe 10x a game

 

[44PRIDE]

I'm not ready to give up on Nassib. I think this young man needs a dedicated QB's coach. he needs someone in his ear teaching him the position.

With all the time Hackett must spend installing the offense, he can't give the QB the time he deserves..

 

[GoSU96]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

It's a rebuild.

People are dissapointed, but talk of ultimatum's is ridiculous.

 

[jr4750]

This.

A couple additional thoughts:

-- I like the idea of an extension for the reasons you point out -- you're buying low. So if it doesn't work out you can make a change without getting completely gouged.

-- I've said this before but I think it's worth repeating: As frustrating as it is, rebuilding is not a linear process, particularly when you decide you're going to overhaul the roster.

-- Are people angry with the way Marrone is running the program or are they angry we didn't win more games? I think these are two separate points of view. I'll have much more concern when there is some sort of pattern to the losing, poor recruiting/development, organization type stuff. At this point it's simply too early to really know about the recruiting/development. For now I tend to think a few tweaks could at least make this program far more successful than it is.

-- Can people stop saying Nassib isn't "the answer"? Honestly, unless someone is convinced there is an "answer" on the roster then Nassib is the QB. Whether he's really "the answer" (whatever that vague notion implies) really is immaterial if Miller can't play, Loeb is no better, and Kinder and Hunt are extremely raw. If by next fall Hunt is really showing a solid grasp of the offense and the things he needs to show to get on the field, then we can have this discussion. But until then honestly think the notion that there is some great option not being explored is laughable.

That is an excellent point. If he won this year, it wouldn't matter who he recruited and who left...

 

[Pyle]

The worst conference in the country?

Where did you come up with that?

We have 1 team barely in the top 25. That puts us below B10, SEC, Pac-10, ACC, and B12. It's not even close. I suppose in reality I was talking about the AQ conferences but we can take it a step further or two for you if you'd like. MWC and CUSA both have 2 teams in the top 25, all 4 of those teams are ranked ahead of the BE BCS Represenative. So yeah we are probably slightly ahead of the MAC, WAC, and SUN Belt. I didn't think really think you'd take my statement quite so literally but if you want to be that literal, fine with me. 8th out of 11. I see no way how this discrepency changes the point I was making. We are dead last in a very bad conference after 3 years of DM. Not exactly a positive thing to hang your hopes on.