I think its time for a discussion

[CuseLegacy]

This is correct. But the coaches wasted the scholarship on him and planned the future depth of the position around him. Fair or not, that’s on them.

One more time, it isn't for lack of desire by Qadir or the coaching staff that he isn't playing. Some things in life are beyond the control of man. If you want to put blame somewhere blame nature, fate or even the hand of God. And even if he never plays a down of football a scholarship that gives a young man the opportunity of an education, he might not otherwise receive, is never, ever a wasted scholarship.

 

[Trueblue25]

Time of possession yesterday was 2:1. Against an 0-4 team. Get rid of the offense

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

They haven't played a game.

Exactly.

 

[UpstateSM]

Time of possession yesterday was 2:1. Against an 0-4 team. Get rid of the offense

 

[orlandoorange]

Time of possession yesterday was 2:1. Against an 0-4 team. Get rid of the offense

It looks like what's underestimated with this offense, is how good Briles was at it. I remember a bowl game they played against NC about 5 years ago.

They were down to a wide reciever playing QB with 0 threat to pass and they still ran all over them.

I'm sure they had a lot more talent than our current team, but he or whomever his OC was adapted to the team they put on the field. I think the genius was in the staff, not the system.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Get rid of the offense

6 OL are out.
QB1 is out.
RB1 and RB2 opted out.
RB3 is out.
RB4 is injured.
WR1 left for the NFL.

Little by little, you're getting your wish. We're getting rid of the offense one player at a time.

 

[Trueblue25]

6 OL are out.
QB1 is out.
RB1 and RB2 opted out.
RB3 is out.
RB4 is injured.
WR1 left for the NFL.

Little by little, you're getting your wish. We're getting rid of the offense one player at a time.

The issue of time of possession as a result of our offensive game planning is not unique to 2020 though.

Perhaps we whiff on a few less OL and WR if we have a more proven offensive approach? 2017 and 2018 were great by my memory. These past two years though yikes. Fine with admitting this is quite the hot take but its frustrating.

Injuries are an issue of course, this year being particularly bad. But im not sold on Dino’s offensive philosophy without a crafty QB to bail him out of broken plays. He has his cookie cut ideal pocket passer in Tommy, but our limited playbook’s not played to his strengths or hid his weaknesses. Doubt itd be different for anyone else on the depth chart.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

RE: the QB sneak fans were upset in the UNC game when they called an option and screamed it should’ve been a QB sneak. This time they tried the QB sneak and fans are upset because it should’ve been a different play.

Eh, I felt the call was fine, we just executed it like crap.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Eh, I felt the call was fine, we just executed it like crap.

I agree I just got a little annoyed by those complaints. Game was there to be won if they convert on that 4th, didn't run into the kicker on the FG try, and maybe catch a couple of those passes that were dropped.

 

[orangecuse]

I have posted this multiple times. Dino is a turn around artist. A very good one.
He has NEVER built a program with his own recruits. Never won with his own QB. Never had sustained success. His offensive scheme works when it is new to opposing teams. Not after they have a book on it.
If Dino is going to succeed it will be as a CEO type head coach.
He needs to focus on recruiting. Use his personality to win over recruits. He needs to hire a great OL coach. Cav doesn't have it. Probably hire a different OC and let them do their jobs.
Im pulling for Dino and believe he can pull it together but he has to continue to upgrade the staff.

A turn around artist? I'm not sure he is really that either.

Babers had success in turning around Eastern Illinois in '12 & '13 going 7-5 & 12-2 respectively. This came after 2 consecutive putrid 2-9 seasons in '10 & '11 in which Eastern Illinois fired their coach and hired Dino. Dino left for Bowling Green afterwards, where BG went 8-6 & 10-4 under Babers in '14 & '15. Prior to Dino at BG, they went 8-5 in '12 & 10-4 in '13 under Clawson. So, Dino at BG kept them status quo to what Clawson had built and what Bowling Green was accustomed to. Interestingly, Dino's success at Eastern Illinois primarily surfaced around a high level NFL quarterback in Garoppolo and his one winning season to date at SU with Dungey, albeit not NFL caliber.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Something that we don’t discuss much here is that SU really doesn’t have a peer set.

Obviously we have little in common with the big, public schools that have vast resources and deep pocketed boosters.

At the same time, we don’t really have much common with most private schools either. We’re certainly nothing like Notre Dame, Miami or USC. And we don’t have the local recruiting base of a Baylor or even Vandy, for that matter. Our peers, institutionally, are probably BC and Northwestern. But even that’s not a perfect fit.

The reality is that we’re a private school with an utterly lousy recruiting base within 200 miles of campus. JW has done a ton give Dino what he needs to recruit competitively: Staff salaries are viable, facilities have been upgraded, fan outreach has been prioritized. And yet, it doesn’t seem like we’re where we need to be, talent wise.

Honestly the most crippling issue over time, IMHO, has been at QB. This is not a knock on TD, it’s just that SU desperately needs an all-world performer at QB to be successful, given our talent and depth limitations all over the field. That’s been our history for decades, and it’s even more of an imperative now. It has been our defining deficiency since McNabb left campus. 25 years ago we had a battle between him, Johnson and Downing for the starting job, and we have never had that kind of depth and athleticism at QB since. Far more often In recent years our top backup has been walk-on caliber.

This is a really good point. Going back a while now 3 of our best maybe 5 seasons we had a senior QB that played really well (RJ, Nassib, Dungey).

But that's the one guy. Otherwise the depth at the position is awful.

I'll bang the drum again - it's baffling that we are the only team in a Dome, and we've so rarely prioritized offense.

We need to make our advantages work for us. We still can make that happen. QBs should want to put the ball in the air in a Dome.

I am buying into the idea that Dino not having a high level QB coach has hurt us.

 

[orangeinohio]

I like Dino.
He needs to get a new OL coach. It goes beyond injuries

 

[Finwad32]

The thing that’s concerning me is that on the offensive side of the ball, we do not look good schematically.

I’m not talking about play calling, I’m talking about our concepts.

There are plays where I’ve no idea what we’re trying to accomplish. If that’s on the players making mental mistakes, well, that’s just as concerning bc the coach needs to have them right.

Depth is tough. Let’s be honest, we couldn’t afford to lose much and we did. Regardless, get the guys in the right spots.

 

[AZOrange]

I still believe in my heart of hearts that Dino is right for SU. But I’m really starting to have doubts. My biggest issue is even in early years they’d lose but they’d care and it would get paid off with a huge upset or two. Now it seems that no one really cares. Dino whips the horse but she’s not responding.

 

[orangecuse]

i don’t know how people think this is a free season. Recruits are watching. Nothing is free. Kids are getting injured and making decisions on what to do next year based on occurrences this year and the “plan” moving forward.

This is not a free season. You don’t struggle to rebuild recruiting, invest a large amount of money in the program, blow the 2019 season then call the next free.

it’s a free season for others who have the luxury to call it that. We do not have that luxury.

If we lose to Liberty consider me in the 2021 bowl or bust boat. Our goal should be to be a perennial top 30-40 team. Not damn Duke

It's very simple. People believe what they want to believe, based upon the power of their thinking, and the fact that they, and only they, are the owners of their own thinking.

 

[AZOrange]

The thing that’s concerning me is that on the offensive side of the ball, we do not look good schematically.

I’m not talking about play calling, I’m talking about our concepts.

There are plays where I’ve no idea what we’re trying to accomplish. If that’s on the players making mental mistakes, well, that’s just as concerning bc the coach needs to have them right.

Depth is tough. Let’s be honest, we couldn’t afford to lose much and we did. Regardless, get the guys in the right spots.

Totally agree. I never went into a season, game or series without an idea of what we are trying to do (control the middle of the field) and everything came from that (ie playcalling). But now...no plan, no strategy...the tactics almost don’t matter

 

[Briancuse]

did the Cajun blame himself or the players?

HCDB doesn’t publicly throw his players under the bus which I admire and think is highly respectable. You handle stuff in-house with your family...but he called out his WRs yesterday for the drops, it was uncharacteristic of him but maybe needed to be said.

You’re very wrong that Dino doesn’t have the same fire.

Both I believe I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors but I'm getting the feeling that Dinos not his usual self. His halftime comment that the defense was playing decent was alarming.

 

[CapitalO]

6 OL are out.
QB1 is out.
RB1 and RB2 opted out.
RB3 is out.
RB4 is injured.
WR1 left for the NFL.

Little by little, you're getting your wish. We're getting rid of the offense one player at a time.

No Cam Jordan either

 

[reedny]

The thing that’s concerning me is that on the offensive side of the ball, we do not look good schematically.

I’m not talking about play calling, I’m talking about our concepts.

There are plays where I’ve no idea what we’re trying to accomplish. If that’s on the players making mental mistakes, well, that’s just as concerning bc the coach needs to have them right.

Depth is tough. Let’s be honest, we couldn’t afford to lose much and we did. Regardless, get the guys in the right spots.

The concepts are there (controlling the middle; stretching the defense with verticals; establishing the run inside and outside; getting the ball to playmakers like NJ, Taj, etc). The problem is, we're building the offense on the fly with new/inexperienced players. Losing 8 or 9 OL and RB's is going to delay installation, no surprise. It took 3 games to put in a tunnel pass up the middle to NJ (he dropped it) and 4 games to swing a pass to Benson from the H-back slot (he scored). So to me, the concepts are there but they are struggling with younger or second-level guys learning the offense. When you're forced to use the season as spring ball, it's going to be ugly.

 

[TheCusian]

What was the excuse for last year's debacle? The "we are a young team with no depth" excuse has been ongoing since about 2004.

long on diagnosis, short on cure

 

[TheCusian]

So many dropped balls yesterday on O and two or three INT dropped. Tommy driving down the field in the 4th Q when he got hurt.

We’re young in *a lot* of spots. This season was always an exhibition season, see what you got, etc.

Lastly, no takers on what exactly success looks like here in the modern era and how we actually get there. I assume from everyone’s love for Hafley, a young up and coming coordinator from the B1G is the solution - but I’m not buying it.

 

[Scooch]

This is a really good point. Going back a while now 3 of our best maybe 5 seasons we had a senior QB that played really well (RJ, Nassib, Dungey).

But that's the one guy. Otherwise the depth at the position is awful.

I'll bang the drum again - it's baffling that we are the only team in a Dome, and we've so rarely prioritized offense.

We need to make our advantages work for us. We still can make that happen. QBs should want to put the ball in the air in a Dome.

I am buying into the idea that Dino not having a high level QB coach has hurt us.

I don’t know what the reasons are, but the current state of our QB depth chart, five years into Dino’s tenure, is abysmal, and totally on him.

I don’t follow recruiting, and in this case I think that makes me a fair observer. It doesn’t matter how we whiffed on top targets, or why kids haven’t lasted once they got to campus. The end result is that our QBing depth is awful, and it’s going to kill not only this season, but likely the next one as well.

 

[richmondcuse03]

We’re never going to have the depth to withstand these types of injuries. Big programs can, we can’t. I’m realistic about what we can do - average years most years with the occasional high end year like we did two years ago. We’re recruiting better for next year. I am a little concerned that we’re not utilizing our system as an advantage anymore. But seems like the depth and injuries are a big part of that. I expect it to be much better next year.

 

[alphaorange]

I think if any p5 team was without 13 projected starters and 8 from the 2nd string, they wouldn't be world beaters even if at the top level like Clemson and Alabama. Average teams would be just like us or worse. All things considered (COVID etc) it's not worth getting worked up about. I'm excited seeing the young guys that will be our future, especially after some S&C.

 

[007]

I don’t know what the reasons are, but the current state of our QB depth chart, five years into Dino’s tenure, is abysmal, and totally on him.

I don’t follow recruiting, and in this case I think that makes me a fair observer. It doesn’t matter how we whiffed on top targets, or why kids haven’t lasted once they got to campus. The end result is that our QBing depth is awful, and it’s going to kill not only this season, but likely the next one as well.

I do follow recruiting, it's kind of a passion (so that should be the first clue to take what I say with a grain of salt). I believe any recruiting model is flawed that doesn't try to throw numbers at historically weak areas. This program IMO absolutely should be bringing in numbers at the QB position EVERY year. 2-3 QBs per cycle, including transfers, portals, jucos - whatever it takes. Obviously, you need to evaluate and target high priority QBs (which they do for the most part). But, it can't stop there when you whiff.

Answer 1 is to identify and acquire talent. Answer 1b is to acquire numbers so you at least increase the odds of having options when Answer 1 fails. For those that think, yeah but that means we will have 8 QBs on the depth chart, that will never happen. Attrition, transfers, injuries and competition will take care of the surplus.