I think its time for a discussion

[Scooch]

I do follow recruiting, it's kind of a passion (so that should be the first clue to take what I say with a grain of salt). I believe any recruiting model is flawed that doesn't try to throw numbers at historically weak areas. This program IMO absolutely should be bringing in numbers at the QB position EVERY year. 2-3 QBs per cycle, including transfers, portals, jucos - whatever it takes. Obviously, you need to evaluate and target high priority QBs (which they do for the most part). But, it can't stop there when you whiff.

Answer 1 is to identify and acquire talent. Answer 1b is to acquire numbers so you at least increase the odds of having options when Answer 1 fails. For those that think, yeah but that means we will have 8 QBs on the depth chart, that will never happen. Attrition, transfers, injuries and competition will take care of the surplus.

I’m 100% on board with this approach. Why we consistently don’t bring in 3 recruits a year for the most important position in the game is beyond me. Hell, some of those kids could have their position switched if they’re a good enough athlete.

 

[Bayside44]

This is a really good point. Going back a while now 3 of our best maybe 5 seasons we had a senior QB that played really well (RJ, Nassib, Dungey).

But that's the one guy. Otherwise the depth at the position is awful.

I'll bang the drum again - it's baffling that we are the only team in a Dome, and we've so rarely prioritized offense.

We need to make our advantages work for us. We still can make that happen. QBs should want to put the ball in the air in a Dome.

I am buying into the idea that Dino not having a high level QB coach has hurt us.

Notice how far, Tommy aside, we are going to try to find high level QBs to play here. I really hope we land that Cardinal Hayes kid to stem that a bit.

 

[007]

I’m 100% on board with this approach. Why we consistently don’t bring in 3 recruits a year for the most important position in the game is beyond me. Hell, some of those kids could have their position switched if they’re a good enough athlete.

They are starting to do it with the OL this cycle. Take a look at d-tackle position after this season if the seniors leave... I am thrilled with d line haul this cycle from a talent and numbers perspective, but ideally I would like to see a couple more true d-tackle body types. Those types of humans are rare, but our peers all seem to have them.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I’m 100% on board with this approach. Why we consistently don’t bring in 3 recruits a year for the most important position in the game is beyond me. Hell, some of those kids could have their position switched if they’re a good enough athlete.

And then become an NFL talent at WR.

 

[Cusefan69]

I’m 100% on board with this approach. Why we consistently don’t bring in 3 recruits a year for the most important position in the game is beyond me. Hell, some of those kids could have their position switched if they’re a good enough athlete.

Which is another reason why I want the hybrid QB at Syracuse. Our oline is historically challenged so a guy who can run and sling is best and when you have athletes like that you have much more flexibility to move them to other roles be it WR, DB or RB. It smooths out the "misses" at QB when you can repurpose as well.

 

[Crusty]

The thing that’s concerning me is that on the offensive side of the ball, we do not look good schematically.

I’m not talking about play calling, I’m talking about our concepts.

There are plays where I’ve no idea what we’re trying to accomplish. If that’s on the players making mental mistakes, well, that’s just as concerning bc the coach needs to have them right.

Depth is tough. Let’s be honest, we couldn’t afford to lose much and we did. Regardless, get the guys in the right spots.

How can you tell? The players don't seem to understand the scheme either.

 

[shandeezy7]

I’m 100% on board with this approach. Why we consistently don’t bring in 3 recruits a year for the most important position in the game is beyond me. Hell, some of those kids could have their position switched if they’re a good enough athlete.

There are three true freshman QB's on the roster right now. Not sure how good any of them might turn out to be, but I do know that there were almost no other power 5 programs that offered any of them.

 

[Scooch]

There are three true freshman QB's on the roster right now. Not sure how good any of them might turn out to be, but I do know that there were almost no other power 5 programs that offered any of them.

And maybe none of them turn out to be a viable QB. But the point is, over the course of 4 years, you’ll likely find a couple that are at least functional QBs.

I don’t follow recruiting, so I’m sure this is something that’s been picked over relentlessly on that board. But I just looked up our recruiting back to 2016, and I think we’ve only brought in more than 1 QB in a class once in 5 years. Twice maybe? That seems insane to me.

 

[721Comstock]

There are three true freshman QB's on the roster right now. Not sure how good any of them might turn out to be, but I do know that there were almost no other power 5 programs that offered any of them.

How many P5 offers (besides Cuse) did Dungey have?

How about Nassib??

Meanwhile, Tommy had a bunch of P5 offers, and likely woulda had a ton more had he not committed so early, and been so adamant that he wasn’t open to considering any other schools. Told TAMU thanks, but no thanks.
(which, I wonder if he regrets that now?)

I’d like to see what the youngsters can do.
Offers and stars be damned.

 

[shandeezy7]

And maybe none of them turn out to be a viable QB. But the point is, over the course of 4 years, you’ll likely find a couple that are at least functional QBs.

I don’t follow recruiting, so I’m sure this is something that’s been picked over relentlessly on that board. But I just looked up our recruiting back to 2016, and I think we’ve only brought in more than 1 QB in a class once in 5 years. Twice maybe? That seems insane to me.

I'm not close enough to recruiting to know the answer, but maybe the only way we can get any halfway decent QB recruits to commit is to put all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak.

 

[shandeezy7]

How many P5 offers (besides Cuse) did Dungey have?

How about Nassib??

Meanwhile, Tommy had a bunch of P5 offers, and likely woulda had a ton more had he not committed so early, and been so adamant that he wasn’t open to considering any other schools. Told TAMU thanks, but no thanks.
(which, I wonder if he regrets that now?)

I’d like to see what the youngsters can do.
Offers and stars be damned.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pan out, and given the current trajectory of this season, I think it's worth seeing what we have. That being said, the fact that we are beating out schools like Jackson State and Texas State for our QB recruits doesn't exactly give me confidence in their likelihood to be really good QB's at the P5 level.

 

[23Zone]

The issue of time of possession as a result of our offensive game planning is not unique to 2020 though.

Perhaps we whiff on a few less OL and WR if we have a more proven offensive approach? 2017 and 2018 were great by my memory. These past two years though yikes. Fine with admitting this is quite the hot take but its frustrating.

Injuries are an issue of course, this year being particularly bad. But im not sold on Dino’s offensive philosophy without a crafty QB to bail him out of broken plays. He has his cookie cut ideal pocket passer in Tommy, but our limited playbook’s not played to his strengths or hid his weaknesses. Doubt itd be different for anyone else on the depth chart.

Yeah...but... we don't have a playbook...literally...

 

[IthacaMatt]

Games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage, and the man simply can not recruit. He was sold to us as an offensive guru. They were right, its been offensive.

Well, where is the disconnect? Because I keep reading about all these linemen who are 6-5 with long arms and quick feet. Why is it that we haven't ENTERED a season in about 4 years with a healthy O line? Do we have defensive linemen going after their teammates knees in practice?
We need to keep this team healthy. If we're being super macho and hitting so hard pre-season that half the guys don't make it to opening day, well after so many seasons, you might reconsider your pre-season approach.

 

[RoysRunts]

you fix the oline and lot of the issues go away.. the D is fine just young.

The D Line (Tackles) is a Big Issue Year after year

 

[OrangeinBoston]

1. Evaluate the roster and find homes for players who will never contribute.
2. Re-examine everything about recruiting - who they target and who takes the primary roles in bringing prospective recruits home.
3. Look very hard at JUCO & transfers for immediate help.
4. Re-evaluate strength & conditioning as far too many players end up hurt.
5. Related to #4, learn how other programs are running practices so we don't end up with half the OL gone before the season starts.
6. Make some hard decisions about which assistants are truly able to help turn this around, regardless of whether they have been there forever or were just hired.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Re #2 he needs better assistants who can recruit. If that means asking ADJW to open up the wallet then do it.

 

[OrangePA]

yes we need stability and he needs 2 more years. the incoming class looks better than usual.
dino needs to be more flexible and not married to his hurry up offense. he is very stubborn and intractable, which imho is a bad trait for a leader. he has not recruited the big uglies well, which has been a problem for most of his tenure. he complains to much about what he doesn't have and sounds more like a whiner . why are there so many injuries??????why is the depth so bad????? are we adapting the offense to what we have or what he wants it to be. do we really care about how many plays we run ??? or should we focus on the type of and execution of plays. sorry just venting

This offense does not use tempo the way we did three or four years ago

 

[CapitalO]

1. Evaluate the roster and find homes for players who will never contribute.
2. Re-examine everything about recruiting - who they target and who takes the primary roles in bringing prospective recruits home.
3. Look very hard at JUCO & transfers for immediate help.
4. Re-evaluate strength & conditioning as far too many players end up hurt.
5. Related to #4, learn how other programs are running practices so we don't end up with half the OL gone before the season starts.
6. Make some hard decisions about which assistants are truly able to help turn this around, regardless of whether they have been there forever or were just hired.

On #1. I can help him out if need be.

 

[SuFTW]

Please. Stop the ignorant commentary. It's not on him. Some things are no ones fault.

My point was people keep blaming Babers and Cavanaugh. Wasn’t assigning blame the way you read it. You interpreted my post the worst possible way.

 

[Trueblue25]

Re #2 he needs better assistants who can recruit. If that means asking ADJW to open up the wallet then do it.

Thing is ADJW’s opened up the wallet a bit and Dino’s not showed him much return

 

[GoSU96]

1. Evaluate the roster and find homes for players who will never contribute.
2. Re-examine everything about recruiting - who they target and who takes the primary roles in bringing prospective recruits home.
3. Look very hard at JUCO & transfers for immediate help.
4. Re-evaluate strength & conditioning as far too many players end up hurt.
5. Related to #4, learn how other programs are running practices so we don't end up with half the OL gone before the season starts.
6. Make some hard decisions about which assistants are truly able to help turn this around, regardless of whether they have been there forever or were just hired.

other than changing both coordinators, firing his daughters father in law, clearly having his best class of commits lined up, changing defenses, and playing over 20 freshmen even before the injuries, he’s just been standing pat and doing crossword puzzles in his office.

 

[tipphill]

This offense does not use tempo the way we did three or four years ago

they need may need cohesion and communication that a huddle may help. who knows . it will not compensate for lack of talent. it may help with clarity, a sense of cohesion and communication. what the hell anything is worth a try.

 

[Cusefan78]

One more time, it isn't for lack of desire by Qadir or the coaching staff that he isn't playing. Some things in life are beyond the control of man. If you want to put blame somewhere blame nature, fate or even the hand of God. And even if he never plays a down of football a scholarship that gives a young man the opportunity of an education, he might not otherwise receive, is never, ever a wasted scholarship.

agree but su isn’t running a charity and we can’t fill a roster with players that don’t play. Would you hire someone to stay home and not work? It’s easy to give away things that isn’t yours. I feel for the kid but he’s taking a spot away from someone that could actually help the team and he’s not the only one.

 

[kcsu]

Something that we don’t discuss much here is that SU really doesn’t have a peer set.

Obviously we have little in common with the big, public schools that have vast resources and deep pocketed boosters.

At the same time, we don’t really have much common with most private schools either. We’re certainly nothing like Notre Dame, Miami or USC. And we don’t have the local recruiting base of a Baylor or even Vandy, for that matter. Our peers, institutionally, are probably BC and Northwestern. But even that’s not a perfect fit.

The reality is that we’re a private school with an utterly lousy recruiting base within 200 miles of campus. JW has done a ton give Dino what he needs to recruit competitively: Staff salaries are viable, facilities have been upgraded, fan outreach has been prioritized. And yet, it doesn’t seem like we’re where we need to be, talent wise.

Honestly the most crippling issue over time, IMHO, has been at QB. This is not a knock on TD, it’s just that SU desperately needs an all-world performer at QB to be successful, given our talent and depth limitations all over the field. That’s been our history for decades, and it’s even more of an imperative now. It has been our defining deficiency since McNabb left campus. 25 years ago we had a battle between him, Johnson and Downing for the starting job, and we have never had that kind of depth and athleticism at QB since. Far more often In recent years our top backup has been walk-on caliber.

SU can and will recruit well. Top 35 -40 each year. Need recruiters. Need some wins. Facilities are not the issue. Location isnt the issue.

 

[kcsu]

I still believe in my heart of hearts that Dino is right for SU. But I’m really starting to have doubts. My biggest issue is even in early years they’d lose but they’d care and it would get paid off with a huge upset or two. Now it seems that no one really cares. Dino whips the horse but she’s not responding.

Dino needs to can movie and Ohana BS. Hes a little too cool for school. Time for him to earn his keep. 4m a year buys a hell of a coach. The rest of this year is going to speak volumes about his leadership qualifications.
Im still sold on him just hope hes got some saddle to go with what so far is mostly hat.