If Jerami Grant slips into the second round tonight...

[billsin01]

I don't know how so many people can say he made a bad decision. Getting drafted may have been his only goal. Maybe he just didn't want college ball anymore. 2nd rounders make it in the NBA too. This isn't a death knell for him. Besides, mid 2nd round picks don't become lottery picks with 1 more year of college.

I personally couldn't care any less if a player leaves when he feels like leaving, so in the sense that he did what he felt like doing and it is far from a death knell, I agree. Having said that, the NBA is all about the second contract, IMO. I honestly think this is one of those things that people ignore that is really important. Rookie contracts are slotted and, relatively speaking, pretty mundane. The real cash comes in contracts two and three if you can get that far. The idea that you get drafted early is awesome, but the key is being really good by the end of year 3. I think for a lot of these guys, and grant is one, minutes and opportunity in college could have really helped them make some serious cash in the second contract. Sitting on an NBA bench or playing in the D League is nowhere near as valuable, IMO.

 

[djcon57]

No, but coming out would have the same effect.

How do you know? We just saw DeAndre Daniels get taken because of his high stock from the Final Four run.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Getting drafted was his only goal????? That's ridiculous.

Playing in the NBA is/was his goal. And/or making money. And it is A LOT easier to do both by getting drafted in the 1st round (guaranteed $) than it is for 2nd round picks.

Nobody ever said it's a death sentence. Those are your words. But staying one more year and waiting for a weaker draft, while also being given more freedom within the offense, gives him a much better opportunity to be drafted in the 1st. And not one person that knows basketball would say otherwise.

I don't think the depth of this draft can be overstated, so I think you make a great point here.

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah, but I don't recall anyone at any time saying CJ might be a potential lottery pick. But you make a fair point. Pun not intended, but I'll take the credit anyway.

Who said Jeremi might be a lottery pick? Anyone that actually drafts the players ?

 

[billsin01]

I feel exactly the same way. I don't think he moves up much at all if he stays. He is on a young team with a real shot to get minutes. Good for him.

I have to disagree with this. Ennis, yes, I'm with you if that's your stance. But a dude as athletic as JG moves up significantly if he merely adds polish.

 

[MikeSU02]

I have to disagree with this. Ennis, yes, I'm with you if that's your stance. But a dude as athletic as JG moves up significantly if he merely adds polish.

And what if he doesn't add a shot and has one more year in zone versus man to man?

He drops.

If coming back = moving up, more kids would do it.

Jerami Grant has to find a niche. Shot or no shot.

It's more important he can defend. Another year in the zone won't help that.

 

[rrlbees]

Once you get past the first round it really doesn't matter if you drafted or not, the damage is done, there is no guaranteed money.

Tell that to all the 2nd rounders playing in the NBA.

 

[billsin01]

He could have become undrafted as we'll.

He's an athlete. That's his role. Needs to get a 15-18 footer. Needs to work on man to man D. In JB's offense he won't be developing what he needs to work on for the league and he sure won't work on man to man D.

No f-ing way. There is simply no way scouts will blatantly pass on an athlete as talented at JG. He was getting his shot in the NBA, the question is what was the right path and it's pretty clear this wasn't it. Does it mean he can't follow this path and have success? Absolutely not, but he did make things harder on himself. There's really no way around that.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Who said Jeremi might be a lottery pick? Anyone that actually drafts the players ?

Been mentioned for at least a year.

http://www.pressboxdc.com/2014/06/23/demathas-jerami-grant-among-nba-draft-prospects

Just the first example I grabbed.

 

[MikeSU02]

No f-ing way. There is simply no way scouts will blatantly pass on an athlete as talented at JG. He was getting his shot in the NBA, the question is what was the right path and it's pretty clear this wasn't it. Does it mean he can't follow this path and have success? Absolutely not, but he did make things harder on himself. There's really no way around that.

Again, only if everything went well on the offensive side of the ball, after we just watched our clogged toilet offense for a full year, and another year removed from man to man defense.

I'm convinced anyone arguing for Jerami coming back and making a huge leap doesn't watch the NBA.

 

[Briancuse]

And what if he doesn't add a shot and has one more year in zone versus man to man?

He drops.

If coming back = moving up, more kids would do it.

Jerami Grant has to find a niche. Shot or no shot.

It's more important he can defend. Another year in the zone won't help that.

Drops to what? The 2nd round undrafted.

He wouldn't have to do that much next year to assure himself of being a first round pick next year.

 

[billsin01]

And what if he doesn't add a shot and has one more year in zone versus man to man?

He drops.

If coming back = moving up, more kids would do it.

Jerami Grant has to find a niche. Shot or no shot.

It's more important he can defend. Another year in the zone won't help that.

Where did I ever say coming back = moving up. That's simplistic and absurd and everyone on this board knows (or should know) this. If he can't knock down a 15-footer he's making his money in Europe regardless. drop or no drop, it wouldn't matter at all.

 

[RF2044]

Correct...and it didn't help him. That's why i refuse to pile on Grant or Ennis and assume they would have been guaranteed lottery because "they'd get minutes"

There's a difference between a guy with limited draft prospects returning to college and younger players with draft upside opting to leave too early. Grant wasn't going to get any less athletic next year, and in all likelihood would have been the focal point of the offense / had the opportunity to put up fantastic numbers to bolster his stock.

I don't specifically knock him for his decision to declare, but I do think [and expressed at the time of his declaration] that it was risky--at best. And as events transpired, I think it is pretty clear that it didn't work out in his favor. Now, this isn't completely insurmountable for Jerami. He can still make the bigs, plug along, and [god willing] earn a more lucrative second contract. But even making the league is no guarantee. And I refuse to believe that this is what Grant aspired to when he decided to declare hardship and end his college career. To be a mid-second round pick with fringe statistical probability of sticking.

 

[RF2044]

Tell that to all the 2nd rounders playing in the NBA.

There is truth to this. Lots of second round picks have made it. Here's hoping Jerami is one of the next ones to stick and carve out a journeyman career so that he can earn money for the next ~10 years.

 

[billsin01]

Again, only if everything went well on the offensive side of the ball, after we just watched our clogged toilet offense for a full year, and another year removed from man to man defense.

I'm convinced anyone arguing for Jerami coming back and making a huge leap doesn't watch the NBA.

Well, you have me on your second point. I don't watch a second of nba hoops. I'll admit that. I also agree with you earlier point that Jeremi needs to find his niche. I'm with you. But I tend to feel like the guys who are the most successful in the NBA are solid from day 1 and improve from there. I think it's really tough to learn on the fly in the NBA b/c you won't get the opportunity for minutes. I have zero problem when players leaving whenever they heck they feel like it and I particularly support it in the case of kids like Ennis or others who might be a tad limited athletically. But to say Grant made a good decision -- with his size, length and athleticism -- seems way off-base to me.

I'm also not sure why another year removed from man-to-man makes that much of a difference. You either have the ability and exert the energy on defense or you don't. I'm not sure I buy that the zone renders talented athletes incapable of defending at the next level.

 

[MikeSU02]

Well, you have me on your second point. I don't watch a second of nba hoops. I'll admit that. I also agree with you earlier point that Jeremi needs to find his niche. I'm with you. But I tend to feel like the guys who are the most successful in the NBA are solid from day 1 and improve from there. I think it's really tough to learn on the fly in the NBA b/c you won't get the opportunity for minutes. I have zero problem when players leaving whenever they heck they feel like it and I particularly support it in the case of kids like Ennis or others who might be a tad limited athletically. But to say Grant made a good decision -- with his size, length and athleticism -- seems way off-base to me.

I'm also not sure why another year removed from man-to-man makes that much of a difference. You either have the ability and exert the energy on defense or you don't. I'm not sure I buy that the zone renders talented athletes incapable of defending at the next level.

I don't agree with everything you say, but I respect it for the perspective.

I love SU hoops. But our offense and our defense is not set up to develop players for the current NBA. A once a decade talent like Melo, sure, it's fine. But for Jerami, it's not good.

The man to man thing is real. Because it's much more than just effort with the way defenses are constructed now.

And Jerami being a tweener means he has to be able to defend a quick SF or whomever he get switched on ina pick and roll.

Not saying he can't pick it up, but our zone, while great for our team, is bad for our players at the next level.

 

[SUFan44]

Tell that to all the 2nd rounders playing in the NBA.

A few numbers for you that I looked up real quick:

According to P-S article about Jerami this week, 97.7 percent of collegiate first-round picks since 2008 have played at least two years in the NBA. 88 percent of college players drafted in the first round have gotten at least a fourth season.

From a DraftExpress article: The most likely five-year outcome for the 574 picks made in the second round between 1980 and 2001 was that they were no longer playing in the NBA. Mixed in were a few bench players and, rarely, a starter or star. Of these players, 29% never played in an NBA game, 62% played fewer than 100 games, and 72% were not in the NBA within five years after being drafted.

Not going to look up what has happened over the last 13 years in the 2nd round, but I'm sure the trend is similar.

 

[djcon57]

There's a difference between a guy with limited draft prospects returning to college and younger players with draft upside opting to leave too early.

I simply disagree with "limited draft prospects"
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...-opts-to-return-to-syracuse-for-senior-season

"Fair was seen as a fringe first-round pick at best despite averaging team-bests of 14.5 points and 6.9 rebounds in 2012-13."
"A big senior season in a very tough league could certainly solidify his status as a first-round guy."

Or...not get drafted at all.

I don't disagree with the majority of your post. But I'd like the same people scolding Jerami for his decision to think about how happy they were when CJ returned.

 

[kcsu]

If Grant knew that he was going to drop this far he would have stayed. No doubt. Also i think his back injury hurt him more than we realize

 

[RF2044]

I simply disagree with "limited draft prospects"
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...-opts-to-return-to-syracuse-for-senior-season

"Fair was seen as a fringe first-round pick at best despite averaging team-bests of 14.5 points and 6.9 rebounds in 2012-13."
"A big senior season in a very tough league could certainly solidify his status as a first-round guy."

Or...not get drafted at all.

I don't disagree with the majority of your post. But I'd like the same people scolding Jerami for his decision to think about how happy they were when CJ returned.

The only thing is, I'm not sure that I would put much stock in that write up's assessment--because I think if CJ had been even a fringe first round pick, he would have jumped without hesitation.

The intel CJ got from the pre-draft evaluation process certainly didn't jibe with what was reported in that write-up.

 

[RF2044]

If Grant knew that he was going to drop this far he would have stayed. No doubt. Also i think his back injury hurt him more than we realize

Agreed.

 

[two3zone]

Jerami grant for rookie of the year, you heard it here first.

Are you drunk while you post?

 

[billsin01]

I don't agree with everything you say, but I respect it for the perspective.

I love SU hoops. But our offense and our defense is not set up to develop players for the current NBA. A once a decade talent like Melo, sure, it's fine. But for Jerami, it's not good.

The man to man thing is real. Because it's much more than just effort with the way defenses are constructed now.

And Jerami being a tweener means he has to be able to defend a quick SF or whomever he get switched on ina pick and roll.

Not saying he can't pick it up, but our zone, while great for our team, is bad for our players at the next level.

Oh, I agree that defenses are more than simply effort but if you're a talented guy who is determined to play defense, you can do it regardless of your background. To me, guys like Hak and John Wallace struggled more because they lacked the footspeed and quickness at the next level. Even Melo to some degree isn't the raw explosive athlete as much as an absolute offensive machine, Imo.

But on offense I'd argue it's not so much the system (which I'd agree is not terribly sophisticated) as it is the structure of the program. Guys who come in and have internal drive and motivation tend to excel and improve. Kids like Rautins and Fair and Allen Griffen and Damone Brown and Arinze Onuaku seem to squeeze every ounce out of their talent. But then there are guys who either aren't told to make certain adjustments or simply don't do it. Rick Jackson didn't lose weight until he was a senior? Kris Joseph went four years and never bothered to develop any semblence of a back to the basket game? Rak is three years in and every bit as raw offensively as he was as a freshman?

I'm not trying to knock those guys individually, but if I were going to knock this program I'd argue that one big issue is the systematic development of players. Not that it's bad, but that there often tend to be huge gaps that come back to haunt us. Just my opinion.

 

[rrlbees]

Getting drafted was his only goal????? That's ridiculous. Playing in the NBA is/was his goal. And/or making money. And it is A LOT easier to do both by getting drafted in the 1st round (guaranteed $) than it is for 2nd round picks. Nobody ever said it's a death sentence. Those are your words. But staying one more year and waiting for a weaker draft, while also being given more freedom within the offense, gives him a much better opportunity to be drafted in the 1st. And not one person that knows basketball would say otherwise.

Good reading comprehension. It was an example.

CJ should have come out last year. Did it help him by staying? No.

And if he is mid 2nd talent this year, he's not going to be lottery next year.

Some of you are just pissed he's not coming back to help SU.

 

[rrlbees]

He came across as a guy who was bitter about their decision and the impact on SU, not their pro careers.

I didn't think his words were that bad. But I do feel that's the way a lot of our fans feel. Bitter he isn't helping SU.