If you listen to JB he thinks we can win games….eventually

[Alsacs]

Right in the end?

I'm not the one doubling down on stupidity two consecutive days. But I suppose you had fun with your pollyanna-ish post from yesterday, after we beat ASU.

Newsflash for you: if Hurley hadn't been such a lousy coach, and had pressed us like he did the last 7 minutes of the game, we would have lost that one, too. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Did you see the Duke / Gonzaga game last night? Either of those teams would beat us by 30. It's a sad commentary that this is how far our program has fallen, that we lose to two non-P5 teams back-to-back, and some are chastising the fanbase for being objective about the product on the court.

My entire life our fanbase has enjoyed the consistency of death, taxes, and JB winning 20+. This year is something completely different -- and pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.

Very unlikely we pull out of this tailspin, because we lack the personnel to do so.

The OP is frustrated with a specific portion of fanbase.
I get it.
I didn’t get it but I do now.
Those posters who aren’t intellectual in their criticisms.
He doesn’t have a problem with my type of criticism. Which has intelligence behind it even if you disagree.
There are posters who just say stupid chit in complaining. That is his point.
He wants to be positive. It’s fine.

The program is just a shell of itself and the HC can still get us into the tournament but we aren’t a big dog anymore.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Love your enthusiasm, but I’m going with he’s blowing smoke.

Smoking blow, more likely

 

[djcon57]

lots of “most people“ and “some people“ in posts lately. It’s a standard technique when you have no valid argument.

i only like to speak for my posts and what I said...that’s just me. im not going to debate what “everyone” said 5 years ago. You want to find a post of mine where I said something specifically stupid or wrong. Go at it. Ive been wrong before, I’ll be wrong again...

I am not happy to be proven right but I was called wrong about my opinion on the current point guard situation over the past 2 years, you bet I’m going to talk about it.

no issues being optimistic. Would be nice to have some form of reality behind it outside of “Jb always turns it around” when he literally didn’t two years ago. we weren’t making the tourney if not for covid.

 

[sufandu]

I think “competitive” is a low bar for a program like Syracuse. It’s all relative.

I’d like to see a top-25 ranking again.

That's the thing for me. The standard that was set, by jB and the performance of his teams for many years, is consistent top 25 rankings with a 5 seed in the tournament. The fact that so many on here are saying we can still be in good shape because we can squeak in and maybe make a run shows how far we've fallen. A run to the sweet sixteen used to be a shoulder shrug. Now it's ammunition for people to try justify our poor regular seasons.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's not like this board to have the same comments day after day.

True, but we’re all following a team that’s been about the same +/- a few in either direction for the last seven seasons. Oh look, another team with a short roster reliant on three or four guys to play 36+ mpg. At least this season the center is capable of scoring.

 

[dasher]

That's the thing for me. The standard that was set, by jB and the performance of his teams for many years, is consistent top 25 rankings with a 5 seed in the tournament. The fact that so many on here are saying we can still be in good shape because we can squeak in and maybe make a run shows how far we've fallen. A run to the sweet sixteen used to be a shoulder shrug. Now it's ammunition for people to try justify our poor regular seasons.

I keep hearing this same refrain and I have to just ask, what can we do about it? So I won't be sorry when we make a run and I'm happy about it. I think we all know that we have to change. I think we all know that change is coming sooner or later. Sooner I think. But for those that claim that some are satisfied with just tourney runs, what can we do about it?

 

[Dave]

This team is fundamentally flawed. I hate to say it. We have been scouted and we are susceptible to pressure and many of our players back the ball down with multiple turns and help defenders are diving at the blind side. Anyone who thinks Symir is a great improvement over Joe handling the ball hasn’t been watching. Teams with strong, quick, man defenders are going to stall our offense out.

 

[jncuse]

I was negative and yet a bit positive after our VCU loss and said that we could still be on track for what a reasonable expectation for this team is (bubble line / mediocrity). We have been here before - generally that thread was not well received.

I would say I was largely negative last night (close to 100% of my posts), I think in frustration that we are back to where we always are (at best), and we may potentially be tracking as worse. When the best case scenario is a situation you are not happy with but have learned to live with year after year, and you get concerned that low baseline may not even be met, frustration and negativity are emotions you have.

At a point last night I was about to post that I would not even post on our tourney chances this year even if we turned it around a bit. I didn't post it because I knew that was not realistic. I know that in two months time, I would reluctantly cheer us on to getting in even if that scenario is frustrating to me right now.

So let's go there. Because that is what I do. Not trying to be negative but realistically if we turn it around a bit, we are in a massive hole tournament wise already for two reasons:
1) The OOC performance is not likely going to be good. We already have a Q3 loss and one "average" loss at best. And this year more than most we may need a good OOC result due to #2.
2) The ACC sucks. Currently it is trending in the same direction as some of the horrible years the PAC-12 had, or the one off the BIG had a few years back, where they became 3-4 bid team leagues.

If we do not perform well in OOC and need the ACC to turn it around, our record will have to be very, very good.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I keep hearing this same refrain and I have to just ask, what can we do about it? So I won't be sorry when we make a run and I'm happy about it. I think we all know that we have to change. I think we all know that change is coming sooner or later. Sooner I think. But for those that claim that some are satisfied with just tourney runs, what can we do about it?

I am not happy with just tourney runs either. I think everyone here wants to win ACC titles and contend for National Championships, but we can't always get what we want. Sometimes we need to be happy with what we can be. I was just asking for perspective. If we win Tuesday I will enjoy it and not be shy about it. I enjoy every win we get regardless of who it is against. Life is too short and serious to be miserable all the time.

 

[Fly Rodder]

and I have to just ask, what can we do about it?

Don't look at me, I don't have any eligibility remaining.

 

[Cusefan0307]

lots of “most people“ and “some people“ in posts lately. It’s a standard technique when you have no valid argument.

i only like to speak for my posts and what I said...that’s just me. im not going to debate what “everyone” said 5 years ago. You want to find a post of mine where I said something specifically stupid or wrong. Go at it. Ive been wrong before, I’ll be wrong again...

I am not happy to be proven right but I was called wrong about my opinion on the current point guard situation over the past 2 years, you bet I’m going to talk about it.

no issues being optimistic. Would be nice to have some form of reality behind it outside of “Jb always turns it around” when he literally didn’t two years ago. we weren’t making the tourney if not for covid.

I'm not even asking to make the tournament. I'm asking for something similar to two years ago which everyone thought we would have a losing record after giving up like 90 to a terrible Georgetown team.

 

[dasher]

Don't look at me, I don't have any eligibility remaining.

eligibility, smelibilty. We can get you eligible. Do you need someone to write your papers for you?

 

[City of Cuse]

When are the guys going to start calling the radio shows again? That was my favorite part last season.

Long time listener, first time caller. Ugghhhhh, coach, I called last year about advanced matrices ...ughhhhh what is your favorite type of submarine sandwich? I'll hang up and listen.

Can't wait for SWC's write ups this season!

 

[Cusefan0307]

I was negative and yet a bit positive after our VCU loss and said that we could still be on track for what a reasonable expectation for this team is (bubble line / mediocrity). We have been here before - generally that thread was not well received.

I would say I was largely negative last night (close to 100% of my posts), I think in frustration that we are back to where we always are (at best), and we may potentially be tracking as worse. When the best case scenario is a situation you are not happy with but have learned to live with year after year, and you get concerned that low baseline may not even be met, frustration and negativity are emotions to have/

At a point last night I was about to post that I would not even post on our tourney chances this year even if we turned it around a bit. I didn't post it because I knew that was not realistic. I know that in two months time, I would reluctantly cheer us on to getting in even if that scenario is frustrating to me right now.

So let's go there. Because that is what I do. Not trying to be negative but realistically if we turn it around a bit, we are in a massive hole tournament wise alrready for two reasons:
1) The OOC performance is not likely going to be good. We already have a Q3 loss and one "average" loss at best. And this year more than most we may need a good OOC result due to #2.
2) The ACC sucks. Currently it is trending in the same direction as some of the horrible years the PAC-12 had, or the one off the BIG had a few years back, where they became 3-4 bid team leagues.

If we do not perform well in OOC and need the ACC to turn it around, our record will have to be very, very good.

Tuesday's game and the Georgetown games are must wins at this point.

 

[djcon57]

I'm not even asking to make the tournament. I'm asking for something similar to two years ago which everyone thought we would have a losing record after giving up like 90 to a terrible Georgetown team.

Again..”everyone thought”

im not going to debate something I didn’t say.

if we want to discuss this year, if I had to put my money if we are going to have a losing record this year...I would guess we will go like 17-14 or so, so prob not.

if I had to put my money if we will make tourney, I would put money against.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Again..”everyone thought”

im not going to debate something I didn’t say.

if we want to discuss this year, if I had to put my money if we are going to have a losing record this year...I would guess we will go like 17-14 or so, so prob not.

if I had to put my money if we will make tourney, I would put money against.

We have about the same expectations then give or take a few games. Again, I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is. Hopefully there’s some good moments along the way.

And it’s a message board. If generalizations are annoying so be it. We all want the same thing.

 

[tptcuse]

Again..”everyone thought”

im not going to debate something I didn’t say.

if we want to discuss this year, if I had to put my money if we are going to have a losing record this year...I would guess we will go like 17-14 or so, so prob not.

if I had to put my money if we will make tourney, I would put money against.

I'm about the same. It would be different if we had five or six "easy" games in December.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You are correct. We put a lineup out there that just can't score. Symir, Frank and Benny can't all be on the floor at the same time. And if we played them all together in the second half against ASU, we might have lost.

Please notice that I never said we needed to sub out all at the same time. That’s the mistake my son‘s AAU coach made constantly. And now JB.

 

[RF2044]

The OP is frustrated with a specific portion of fanbase.
I get it.
I didn’t get it but I do now.
Those posters who aren’t intellectual in their criticisms.
He doesn’t have a problem with my type of criticism. Which has intelligence behind it even if you disagree.
There are posters who just say stupid chit in complaining. That is his point.
He wants to be positive. It’s fine.

The program is just a shell of itself and the HC can still get us into the tournament but we aren’t a big dog anymore.

Sure -- the board has always had a'hole posters. And it's always had posters who are unduly negative no matter what the circumstances are, and another segment that is unduly positive no matter what.

What's really frustrating is the "I told you so" compulsion from BOTH sides, scrounging for even the slightest glimmer of confirmatory bias.

I consider myself to be one of the most optimistic posters in general on this forum -- but when I watched the team perform during the exhibition games, I got scared. Ask Dasher -- after the Le Moyne game, I expressed to a group of posters who are regulars here that based upon what I was seeing, I thought that the team would be awful, and I laid out my reasons for why that was the case.

1. Least athletic starting lineup in JB's 45 years
2. PG play would be wildly subpar -- and that Girard is incapable of handling full court defensive pressure
3. Defense is going to be much worse than we're used to
4. Rebounding is a problem

And not just that these are inhibiting factors that might stop the team from reaching it's full potential -- I said that these reasons [especially #2] were going to be massive obstacles that would cause the team to stink. Dasher, Marsh, AZ, etc. -- keep me honest here that I expressed these opinions.

And every one of my fears has manifested. So when I see threads calling me out for being REALISTIC, when I'm generally one of the most rah-rah posters there is, I have no problem calling BS.

"JB usually turns things around" isn't enough for me to regain optimism. The ACC is pretty poor this year relative to most, and I believe that we're going to struggle. Immensely. And I think we are in clear danger of JB having his first losing record.

Would love to be wrong. Given that rooting for SU sports [and basketball in particular] is my main passion, nothing would please me more. But I see zero evidence for optimism. And zero reason to feel that things will improve next year, either, sans landing a blue trip transfer.

 

[81South]

Is having the big men guard corner threes a new development?

No and I see no benefit from it. Seriously. How often do we block that shot to make it a worthwhile proposition? Except for the Hak block I cannot recall a time when the shot was blocked by our center closing out on a 3 point shooter

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Might. the league doesn't look strong. But we still can't handle the ball. We still play just terrible defense.

And you were the guy telling me to trust JB about Girard. Yikes if you’ve gone to the other side as well.

 

[dasher]

And you were the guy telling me to trust JB about Girard. Yikes if you’ve gone to the other side as well.

You believed me?

 

[jncuse]

I was so upset/not caring (if that is a possible combination) in the post game thread, that I started posting WWE tag team theme songs from the 80's for no reason. Got in Strike Force, was about to post the theme song of the Rougeau's but then I stopped myself from hitting "reply", so that I didn't totally derail things.

That being said the Demolition theme song was awesome.

 

[Day2]

I will add that some people act as if they are the "real fans" because they "expect more" and are almost gleeful when something negative happens to prove them right. We can support the team and be optimistic/hopeful and still realize there are limitations.

The people you’re referring to are fans of their own opinions more than anything.

 

[Day2]

That's the thing for me. The standard that was set, by jB and the performance of his teams for many years, is consistent top 25 rankings with a 5 seed in the tournament. The fact that so many on here are saying we can still be in good shape because we can squeak in and maybe make a run shows how far we've fallen. A run to the sweet sixteen used to be a shoulder shrug. Now it's ammunition for people to try justify our poor regular seasons.

If we were playing to that standard, the same people would be complaining. I remember people calling for JB to be fired after we lost to Memphis in 2002.