I'm Done With the Zone

[doc05]

We're turning ino the UGA of College Basketball. Always good recruiting classes, always go into the year as one of a few with a chance to win it all yet we consistently underachieve for a team with as much talent as we usually have.

I read earlier in this thread a mocking post about these past 5 years and how we're basically spoiled but guess what.. If our standard is the blue bloods, then our teams routinely underachieve. If we just want to be one of the best of the rest, then I guess we're doing just fine.

And that's the thing - people are defining "success" differently. We haven't won anything come tourney time the past 5 years (conference tourney included), yet some people are just content with regular season success. That's fine. I just like to shoot higher when this program is supposed to be "elite".

 

[pearl31]

And that's the thing - people are defining "success" differently. We haven't won anything come tourney time the past 5 years (conference tourney included), yet some people are just content with regular season success. That's fine. I just like to shoot higher when this program is supposed to be "elite".

Yeah, it sucks getting to Final 4s

 

[NKR1978]

And that's the thing - people are defining "success" differently. We haven't won anything come tourney time the past 5 years (conference tourney included), yet some people are just content with regular season success. That's fine. I just like to shoot higher when this program is supposed to be "elite".

Is Arizona an elite program?

 

[Antiprodigy]

I've had it. Is there a reason we always have to run it? Does it affect the way we recruit? The players we recruit?

I know of all the things talked about tonight this might be low on the totum pole, but I miss seeing man to man Defense.

Then go be a fan of another school. Right now, and for the forseeable future, that is the identity of SU basketball. If you are done with the zone, you are done with SU basketball. Otherwise, you are just beating your head against a wall that is harder than your head, and you are not likely to appreciate the end result.

 

[longislandcuse]

I disagree. I think you're overstating the talent level. We've been getting A results from a B+ level of talent for a long time through coaching and teamwork. There's not a lot of room to improve on that without another Carmelo Anthony.

We have 2 lottery picks, an AA and a McDonalds AA in our starting lineup...

 

[doc05]

Is Arizona an elite program?

Possibly - but I am not concerned about Arizona, or what their "status" supposedly is.

 

[Cowtown]

We have 2 lottery picks, an AA and a McDonalds AA in our starting lineup...

I suggest you hold off on the "lottery picks" until after the draft. And you might consider Donte Greene was a lottery pick, and spent more time in the D League and in Europe than he id sitting on NBA benches. You might also consider that NBA GM's prove routinely that they don't know about "talent."

 

[longislandcuse]

I suggest you hold off on the "lottery picks" until after the draft. And you might consider Donte Greene was a lottery pick, and spent more time in the D League and in Europe than he id sitting on NBA benches. You might also consider that NBA GM's prove routinely that they don't know about "talent."

Agreed but you can't say we have B+ talent compared to who. We have more individual talent than Duke or Arizona, two teams who have seemed to get their ish together.

Injuries, suspensions happen and we've gotten hit hard by that but at some point he proof is in the pudding. We're consistently a contender with a big name school rockin big name recruits and big time facilities. We have one NC and cap our Final 4 runs at one per decade.

The UGA of CBB and JB is turning into Mark Richt.

 

[igor]

i

how did Syracuse's zone defense cause them to shoot 33% from the floor and 24% from 3???

i'm glad u asked' every team practices with its personnel. when su wants to practice against man, its a boeheim man. remember how good that was, le Moyne.
our offense is basically one on one. its amazing we score as much as we do. we have some amazing talent. jb needs Carmelo to come back. im not saying something new. the keepers of the ship either eradicate me, print same ol same ol
u mean to tell me patterson couldn't play at the 4 minute mark or roberson play for lefty.

 

[GonzoInMD]

One of the problems I see with the zone is that it seems to be so complicated to play that it contributes to the lack of depth on the team. How many times do we see a frosh sitting on the bench because they haven't learned the nuances of the defense enough to allow JB to trust them out there.

 

[HoustonCuse]

i

i'm glad u asked' every team practices with its personnel. when su wants to practice against man, its a boeheim man. remember how good that was, le Moyne.
our offense is basically one on one. its amazing we score as much as we do. we have some amazing talent. jb needs Carmelo to come back. im not saying something new. the keepers of the ship either eradicate me, print same ol same ol
u mean to tell me patterson couldn't play at the 4 minute mark or roberson play for lefty.

Good god you are a co*ck sucker.

 

[longislandcuse]

Good god you are a co*ck sucker.

He's right though. At least at this point in time, right now. I agree with him.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Zone, over the course of the year, has been fine. However, recently teams are getting more and more good looks. If you don't play it with all out effort, you're wasting your time. Rotations, hands up, communication. It's been subpar. And yes, I chalk it up to substitution pattern, or lack thereof.

I love that people love to say players stay more rested in a zone. If you're playing it like it should be played, quick rotations, traps, arms extended, it's possible to get tired. Might be shocking to some. Did Fair play 40 minutes last night? What did he shoot? On what planet does a player who is really struggling, not get a minute to collect on the bench? Oh, our bench players aren't ready? Whose fault is that?

It's just very strange to me.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Good god you are a co*ck sucker.

While I did LOL at this, I actually agree with some of the points.

 

[longislandcuse]

Zone, over the course of the year, has been find. However, recently teams are getting more and more good looks. If you don't play it with all out effort, you're wasting your time. Rotations, hands up, communication. It's been subpar. And yes, I chalk it up to substitution pattern, or lack thereof.

I love that people love to say players stay more rested in a zone. If you're playing it like it should be played, quick rotations, traps, arms extended, it's possible to get tired. Might be shocking to some. Did Fair play 40 minutes last night? What did he shoot? On what planet does a player who is really struggling, not get a minute to collect on the bench? Oh, our bench players aren't ready? Whose fault is that?

It's just very strange to me.

The fact Keita and Fair played as much as they did (regardless of foul trouble) was mind boggling.

Their play warranted an extended amount of time on the bench. Boeheim yanks people for defense, does he have blinders on with these two? Aside from the awful offense they gave us, their defense was downright pathetic.

 

[rstone7727]

Igor is getting nervous he is being subbed for Ballhugger...

 

[NineOneSeven]

The fact Keita and Fair played as much as they did (regardless of foul trouble) was mind boggling.

Their play warranted an extended amount of time on the bench. Boeheim yanks people for defense, does he have blinders on with these two? Aside from the awful offense they gave us, their defense was downright pathetic.

As I posted yesterday, our number 1 priority is keeping Rak on the floor. He needs to play 30 minutes.

 

[doc05]

The fact Keita and Fair played as much as they did (regardless of foul trouble) was mind boggling.

Their play warranted an extended amount of time on the bench. Boeheim yanks people for defense, does he have blinders on with these two? Aside from the awful offense they gave us, their defense was downright pathetic.

Agreed - and IMO it goes back to "favoritism". JB can dog Christmas out in a press conference after almost having a double-double - but he dare not speak badly of, or yank "his guys". I do not believe JB has handled this team well coming down the stretch. I just hope he uses this time off to get this thing back on track somehow.

 

[SBU72]

I've had it. Is there a reason we always have to run it? Does it affect the way we recruit? The players we recruit?

I know of all the things talked about tonight this might be low on the totum pole, but I miss seeing man to man Defense.

The zone is "so bad" that SU was able to come back from 10 down (which is suppose to be hard playing zone) and take the lead. However 2 empty trips down the court with horrible shots allowed NCS to go back in the lead. Again, going back and paraphrasing JB, - making shots would solve the "defensive" problems.

 

[Cowtown]

As I posted yesterday, our number 1 priority is keeping Rak on the floor. He needs to play 30 minutes.

If I may (and no crap to you), Rak needs to smarten the , and stop trying to be the second coming of Marvin "the human eraser" Webster. How much longer does he have to sit his ass on the bench for long stretches with early foul trouble before he finally figures out he can't block every GD shot? It's especially important when game after game, Cooney is locked down by the other team's best defender with a dedication that would make Seal Team 6 envious, that we don't have BMK on the floor for 25-30 minutes. Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

 

[Cowtown]

The zone is "so bad" that SU was able to come back from 10 down (which is suppose to be hard playing zone) and take the lead. However 2 empty trips down the court with horrible shots allowed NCS to go back in the lead. Again, going back and paraphrasing JB, - making shots would solve the "defensive" problems.

I don't disagree, and I like having the 2-3 as a base D. But I'd also like the option of some M2M to not only change the pace for SU, but to force other teams to deal with it.

 

[SBU72]

I don't disagree, and I like having the 2-3 as a base D. But I'd also like the option of some M2M to not only change the pace for SU, but to force other teams to deal with it.

But what does that do for a failing offense? Everybody points out that the reason why SU plays zone so well is that they don't play anything else. They practice only zone. Practicing m2m reduces the efficiency of both.

 

[Cowtown]

But what does that do for a failing offense? Everybody points out that the reason why SU plays zone so well is that they don't play anything else. They practice only zone. Practicing m2m reduces the efficiency of both.

It's my guess they play m2m when practicing against the "scout O." Also, good zone D is built on m2m principles (by JB's own account), so it's not really that much of a leap - in principle, anyway. The point is that we all recognize something is necessary to change the pace, both physically and mentally. And that really should help get a few more players into the mix. I was saying a month ago they were burned out, and there are a few reasons for that. And this is just IMHO, I know I'm certainly not a Div 1 coach, but I'm thinking along the lines of "doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results ..."

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Zero issues with the zone as principle. Heck, if you do, the last 38 years have been trying times then.

Boeheim didn't run the zone until 1996.

 

[Millhouse]

how did Syracuse's zone defense cause them to shoot 33% from the floor and 24% from 3???

They were shooting 90% before going 0 - 46 from the field the last twenty seconds