It’s Portal time!

[CU44SE]

I mean White's stats speak for themselves.

Their is more then one side to basketball. Offense was unbelievable. Defense was uninterested.

 

[City of Cuse]

Their is more then one side to basketball. Offense was unbelievable. Defense was uninterested.

I have to disagree. I think the narrative is he didn't play defense, but he got better as the year went on.

I was lucky enough to sit courtside for a game that year. White was the only guy talking on defense. You could see it and hear that he was getting after it.

Basically, what I'm saying is Cuse has had transfers besides the couple guys you mentioned that have played and been important to their teams.

 

[Cusesky8214]

Portal will be like nba free agency this year!

 

[CardiacCuse]

How is this still a conversation about why kids leave? People realize there's more options then just the NBA and that there's decent money involved. Some kids value education more then others and some want to get a jump start on making some real money for themselves and their familes...it's such a odd discussion thats regurgitated constantly around here. The whole stay in college another year to get "better" is also a bad take...kids work on their basketball skills far more in a pro setting (yes even the G league) then they do while being a college student and limited to the amount of time they get to practice.

well so many are so opinionated on this...so the debate isnt settled.

My rebuttal to you...is EXPOSURE and PLACEMENT...the opportunity that NCAABB provides is not matched by any other non-NBA avenue.

So yeah...you can certainly get better in GLEAGUE...but for now...killing it in NCAA is what gets you drafted. I just saw Oshae do the most vicious dunk I have ever seen him do in the gleague...and hes been killing it overall...10th leading scorer in the gleague...but...still no NBA offers that I know of...hes at the peak of his powers right now...gaurantee if he was doing that right now in the ACC he would be lottery pick...so sorry its not only about how objectively good you are...but how you play your cards.

think about it

Oshae Brissett: Doesn't play Friday

Oshae Brissett: Doesn't play Friday

www.cbssports.com

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

well so many are so opinionated on this...so the debate isnt settled.

My rebuttal to you...is EXPOSURE and PLACEMENT...the opportunity that NCAABB provides is not matched by any other non-NBA avenue.

So yeah...you can certainly get better in GLEAGUE...but for now...killing it in NCAA is what gets you drafted. I just saw Oshae do the most vicious dunk I have ever seen him do in the gleague...and hes been killing it overall...10th leading scorer in the gleague...but...still no NBA offers that I know of...hes at the peak of his powers right now...gaurantee if he was doing that right now in the ACC he would be lottery pick...so sorry its not only about how objectively good you are...but how you play your cards.

think about it

Oshae Brissett: Doesn't play Friday

Oshae Brissett: Doesn't play Friday

www.cbssports.com

He wouldn’t be doing it in the NCAA. All he has done is play basketball against pros for 2 years. He is better now than he ever would have been here; and dunking alone doesn’t make you an NBA player.

 

[CardiacCuse]

He wouldn’t be doing it in the NCAA. All he has done is play basketball against pros for 2 years. He is better now than he ever would have been here; and dunking alone doesn’t make you an NBA player.

doing it in college...IS WORTH MORE.

he would be a senior this season. he could very well be doing that this season.

its not just dunking its getting buckets ...hes the 10th leading scorer in Gleague...and what has that gotten him? I'm not hating.

Im just saying...IF you want to be in the NBA...as I beleive he and most SU players do...there is a lot of gray area in leaving or staying...but its so black and white seemingly for everyone.

just go the first second you can. i disagree with that philosophy.

I am not really on one side or the other!! I just think it is a difficult decision and that players indeed can and do benefit from staying in school...

Seems most people think only 1 in a hundred - if that - could ever benefit from staying...which i disagree with.


PS youre crazy if you think dunks like that dont get you noticdd by NBA...or put your name a little higher on the list...bare minimum it shows that your athleticism is where it needs to be.

 

[Cusesky8214]

well so many are so opinionated on this...so the debate isnt settled.

My rebuttal to you...is EXPOSURE and PLACEMENT...the opportunity that NCAABB provides is not matched by any other non-NBA avenue.

So yeah...you can certainly get better in GLEAGUE...but for now...killing it in NCAA is what gets you drafted. I just saw Oshae do the most vicious dunk I have ever seen him do in the gleague...and hes been killing it overall...10th leading scorer in the gleague...but...still no NBA offers that I know of...hes at the peak of his powers right now...gaurantee if he was doing that right now in the ACC he would be lottery pick...so sorry its not only about how objectively good you are...but how you play your cards.

think about it

Oshae Brissett: Doesn't play Friday

Oshae Brissett: Doesn't play Friday

www.cbssports.com

Yea...I respect your opinion but disagree 100% oshae has progressed from his time with the raptors organization and being in the G league working on his game daily. To each their own. Also the NBA isn't the only professional option to make money. Again, its a strange discussion on here yearly...I get everyone wants their college to do well and keep good players but I don't fault them one bit for wanting to make the jump...especially if staying another year in college doesn't do much for them.

 

[CardiacCuse]

He wouldn’t be doing it in the NCAA. All he has done is play basketball against pros for 2 years. He is better now than he ever would have been here; and dunking alone doesn’t make you an NBA player.

So Zion williamson is dunking much better now than he did at Duke? okay.

 

[Chalupa_24]

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Honestly, he won't be missed. He hits threes in games that are decided or don't matter. Huge letdown year for him.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I will say this, everyone wants to add a transfer and they think it will solidify the team. The last player that came to Syracuse via transfer and made an immediate impact was Wes Johnson. Every single other player has taken time to develop, time to learn the zone, time to crack the lineup. It’s no guarantee that the next transfer that comes is what puts us over the top.

Alan Griffin has had a very strong year, IMO. Yes, he's not a superb ball handler and has had numerous defensive issues, but his scoring has been mostly there all season, he's a good rebounder/shot blocker as a SG playing the back line and he's improved as the season's gone on.

Not so much in your case, but I keep seeing him written off and it seems people are ready for him to move on already. That's insane to me. He's not the problem, it's what he's been asked to do all season as someone new to the program playing as an undersized 's caused the issues. I would gladly take him on my team next year.

 

[CU44SE]

Alan Griffin has had a very strong year, IMO. Yes, he's not a superb ball handler and has had numerous defensive issues, but his scoring has been mostly there all season, he's a good rebounder/shot blocker as a SG playing the back line and he's improved as the season's gone on.

Not so much in your case, but I keep seeing him written off and it seems people are ready for him to move on already. That's insane to me. He's not the problem, it's what he's been asked to do all season as someone new to the program playing as an undersized 's caused the issues. I would gladly take him on my team next year.

i agree with a lot of what you said. As you, I think he is playing out of position. He has had really good moments and then disappeared. I really do hope he is back next year. Could go without some of his heat checks but he is deffinetly a good thing for us.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

doing it in college...IS WORTH MORE.

he would be a senior this season. he could very well be doing that this season.

its not just dunking its getting buckets ...hes the 10th leading scorer in Gleague...and what has that gotten him? I'm not hating.

Im just saying...IF you want to be in the NBA...as I beleive he and most SU players do...there is a lot of gray area in leaving or staying...but its so black and white seemingly for everyone.

just go the first second you can. i disagree with that philosophy.

I am not really on one side or the other!! I just think it is a difficult decision and that players indeed can and do benefit from staying in school...

Seems most people think only 1 in a hundred - if that - could ever benefit from staying...which i disagree with.


PS youre crazy if you think dunks like that dont get you noticdd by NBA...or put your name a little higher on the list...bare minimum it shows that your athleticism is where it needs to be.

He has been in the NBA. He is getting paid to play basketball. He doesn’t need to entertain you to seek his dream.
Some people don’t want college. Some have realized that college is a waste of time in trying to get where they want to go.
I know a kid from Rochester that left college in his first year and wound up getting hired as a CEO of a start up company in Japan. At 19. He and the company realized he did not need a piece of paper to be successful. (Kid is a block-chain/encryption savant.)
OB is better off.
John Wallace did not really improve his draft stock after his FF run. Fans overrate that stuff for NBA draft stock.
Performance matters, (now he is doing it against pros, not people who will never go past college) but workouts matter as much, and sometimes more. Then there are background checks, interviews, etc.
There are also contract issues that have to be dealt with for roster sizes. He might be better than the 12th and 13th guy, but they have guarantees, and the agent might be friends with the GM or the agent has a guy they want to sign next year. For fringe guys like OB, there are a lot of things, other than talent, that go into making a roster.

 

[Sherman20]

I want to believe that the issue is missing out on high level targets, but it's been haunting me ever since Tom made the observation that JB may have fallen in love with the way Keira could basically cover anywhere in the half court from the 5 spot, and he's been trying to recapture that ever since, to the great limitation of basically, well, anything else we could be getting from the center spot.

In short, I don't think strategically that the things Boeheim are the same things that he was doing when he helped all those other big men develop.

Interesting. I hadn’t heard Tom make that observation. I get what you’re saying. I would push back on that a bit and argue that JB has stated that he tends to favor offensive capabilities over defense. He talks about it in his book. He feels he can teach defense. It’s not like Keita played full time either. He split minutes at the center spot with Rak. I think he likes to have the option of a long athlete in the middle when we needs defensive stops but he also wants versatility. I mean, he played Taurean “matador” Thompson like 20mpg in the middle because he wanted his offense on the floor. Even this year, he’s been riding Marek in the middle because of everything he gives us on offense, even though the kid doesn’t have a big enough wing span to play center. If he wanted a long athlete who could get out to the corner, wouldn’t he have played Jesse and even Frank more?

anyhow, I appreciate the insight. You may be right.

 

[Sherman20]

If Guerrier and Woody both leave, then I'd be fine having Marek back to play the 4.

But I agree -- I don't want him occupying the 5 for another entire season, because it limits the ceiling defensively.

I’d love to have Marek back to play PF. He’s a great player. I think most fans would take that proposition in a heartbeat.

 

[Sherman20]

i think we are misunderstanding each other.

My take is that from a lot of comments from other posters - most seem to assume he is gone - which surprises me based on his play. I think he has developed a lot year over year and that trend should continue if he stays - which would benefit him bc he is not currently going to get drafted most likely.

I dont think a sophomore is "old"...I think his best years are ahead of him if he stays.

I dont think he is a tyus battle who has peaked and hit his ceiling so might as well leave type of deal.

i think he could really improve his draft stock and be a first rounder next year. which would mean a serious difference in his bank account.

I dont think it is a guarantee he comes back. i think it is just odd that it is assumed he is gone...especially bc I dont think that that would be his best move from a long term career perspective.

I think his goal is NBA. it should be. If it isnt then you are right... it doesnt matter and he shoud leave now. if it is NBA...my personal take is he should stay.

Quincy is also a good student who may value getting a college education to secure his long term future.

Plus, the off-season (and even in season) was a disaster for these kids with Covid keeping them from really developing their skills with the assistant coaches. They missed all of April-mid July. And even in the summer their practice time was limited. I don’t think they were scrimmaging with each other as much if at all. The same with in season. There were so many restrictions, this just wasn’t a normal development year at all. I think he could improve a lot by coming back.

 

[CardiacCuse]

He has been in the NBA. He is getting paid to play basketball. He doesn’t need to entertain you to seek his dream.
Some people don’t want college. Some have realized that college is a waste of time in trying to get where they want to go.
I know a kid from Rochester that left college in his first year and wound up getting hired as a CEO of a start up company in Japan. At 19. He and the company realized he did not need a piece of paper to be successful. (Kid is a block-chain/encryption savant.)
OB is better off.
John Wallace did not really improve his draft stock after his FF run. Fans overrate that stuff for NBA draft stock.
Performance matters, (now he is doing it against pros, not people who will never go past college) but workouts matter as much, and sometimes more. Then there are background checks, interviews, etc.
There are also contract issues that have to be dealt with for roster sizes. He might be better than the 12th and 13th guy, but they have guarantees, and the agent might be friends with the GM or the agent has a guy they want to sign next year. For fringe guys like OB, there are a lot of things, other than talent, that go into making a roster.

its not about me.

I knw I have couched my posts from a personal perspective...but its really not.

Its not about blaming or absolving these players for whatever decisions they make.

there is more nuance...than "player good, blogger bad"

the argument that players have the right to do what they want is irrelevant to what I am trying to get at.

of course they can do what they want . of course.

but just bc it is their decision doesnt mean their decisions cant be analyzed and parsed.

there is indeed a part of me as an NCAABB/Orange fan that wants to see these marginal players stay and help the team. That is true. BUT in my opinion it is also in the bst interest of the player, in most cases.

I was a fan in the 80s and 90s and back then...a player didnt really peak until their senior year most of the time. 80% of players had their best year as a senior. Now all of a sudden in the narcissitic era of social media and me me me...players are all of a sudden ready to leave after averaging 11 pts and 8 rebounds with many holes in their games and 1 year of experience...to ...go washout and play barely at all in the NBA...and basically never really have an "NBA career"

I'm not blaming them. or saying they cannot do what they want. it is indeed their decision.

But observing the situation for what it is...doesnt make me selfish.

the situation is very complex and hard to navigate. I'm not saying it is easy...

I get the feeling from your post and from other posters that it is almost never a good idea to stay in school anymore...

cant we just agree that in some cases it is actually better for players to stay in school ?

 

[721Comstock]

Quincy is also a good student who may value getting a college education to secure his long term future.

Plus, the off-season (and even in season) was a disaster for these kids with Covid keeping them from really developing their skills with the assistant coaches. They missed all of April-mid July. And even in the summer their practice time was limited. I don’t think they were scrimmaging with each other as much if at all. The same with in season. There were so many restrictions, this just wasn’t a normal development year at all. I think he could improve a lot by coming back.

Or...

they could IMPROVE EVEN MORE while playing and practicing FULL-TIME,
and not having to pretend to also be a full-time college student.

And also maybe get paid while doing so.

AND...

they can ALWAYS COME BACK to finish their degree.

They CANNOT always potentially play Pro hoops. Very finite window of opportunity for that.
1 injury could derail that dream for them in a heartbeat.

 

[Cusesky8214]

I was a fan in the 80s and 90s and back then...a player didnt really peak until their senior year most of the time. 80% of players had their best year as a senior. Now all of a sudden in the narcissitic era of social media and me me me...players are all of a sudden ready to leave after averaging 11 pts and 8 rebounds with many holes in their games and 1 year of experience...to ...go washout and play barely at all in the NBA...and basically never really have an "NBA career"

Ehh...the 80s/90s didn't have the G league and many other good paying options for those players so of course they wouldn't "peak" until their senior years because leaving early wasn't as good of a option during that time period. So much more opportunities for these guys now. And you keep mentioning just the NBA...of course thats all of these players dreams but there's money to be made for them elsewhere if they, "go washout" of the NBA.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I get the feeling from your post and from other posters that it is almost never a good idea to stay in school anymore...

cant we just agree that in some cases it is actually better for players to stay in school ?
[/QUOTE]
If you want to be a pro, why delay? Your window is limited. College? You can go at anytime.

No one makes an argument that baseball or hockey players need to go to college. What about tennis? The best soccer players in the world never went to college.

I think that if want to be a pro, the quicker you can play for money, the better off you are. You will get better coaching and have more time to develop your skills. Take on line courses if you want.
If you want to hedge your bets, stay and get a degree.
Some use sports for college because they have academic dreams, more than pro sports.

Just my position.

I used to think it was all about college until I met a guy in law school. Baseball player. Stayed in college (Niagara, where he also played a year of basketball for Frank Layden) through his senior year, despite being drafted in every draft he was eligible from high school on. #3 in batting average his Jr. year. If I remember correctly, the last draft that he could be picked, he went #6 (it wasn’t the common draft, but some supplemental type of draft)
Anyway, he tore his hamstring in rookie ball. I commented that I bet he was glad he got his education, so he could be in law school.
He said “no”! He should have signed out of high school and had it in his contract that they would pay for school.
By not signing, he missed 4 years of opportunity. (He was in the A’s organization. We played fantasy baseball, then known as Rotisserie. He would alway diss Luis Polonia and Stan Javier, who were in rookie ball with him, saying they sucked. )

 

[Cusesky8214]

 

[kcsu]

I'd take Chukwu right now too.

Miss the big Chewy prancing down the court.

 

[two3zone]

doing it in college...IS WORTH MORE.

he would be a senior this season. he could very well be doing that this season.

its not just dunking its getting buckets ...hes the 10th leading scorer in Gleague...and what has that gotten him? I'm not hating.

Im just saying...IF you want to be in the NBA...as I beleive he and most SU players do...there is a lot of gray area in leaving or staying...but its so black and white seemingly for everyone.

just go the first second you can. i disagree with that philosophy.

I am not really on one side or the other!! I just think it is a difficult decision and that players indeed can and do benefit from staying in school...

Seems most people think only 1 in a hundred - if that - could ever benefit from staying...which i disagree with.


PS youre crazy if you think dunks like that dont get you noticdd by NBA...or put your name a little higher on the list...bare minimum it shows that your athleticism is where it needs to be.

Ever hear of a man named Bazley?

 

[CardiacCuse]

Ever hear of a man named Bazley?

yeah...he was a test case that had a lot of notoriety and got a 1 million "internship"...thats not on the cards for every guy who leaves early.

Things are changing every year and we may be at the tipping point where NCAABB doesnt help much anymore...BUT if that was the case...I dont reckon we'd see almost every amateur bball player play nCAABB...the day might come and it would be bad for the sport when it does.

I like NCAABB (obviously) and all of its fans should be doing more to protect it and not tear it down. It needs changes but doesnt need to be destroyed.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I get the feeling from your post and from other posters that it is almost never a good idea to stay in school anymore...

cant we just agree that in some cases it is actually better for players to stay in school ?

If you want to be a pro, why delay? Your window is limited. College? You can go at anytime.

No one makes an argument that baseball or hockey players need to go to college. What about tennis? The best soccer players in the world never went to college.

I think that if want to be a pro, the quicker you can play for money, the better off you are. You will get better coaching and have more time to develop your skills. Take on line courses if you want.
If you want to hedge your bets, stay and get a degree.
Some use sports for college because they have academic dreams, more than pro sports.

Just my position.

I used to think it was all about college until I met a guy in law school. Baseball player. Stayed in college (Niagara, where he also played a year of basketball for Frank Layden) through his senior year, despite being drafted in every draft he was eligible from high school on. #3 in batting average his Jr. year. If I remember correctly, the last draft that he could be picked, he went #6 (it wasn’t the common draft, but some supplemental type of draft)
Anyway, he tore his hamstring in rookie ball. I commented that I bet he was glad he got his education, so he could be in law school.
He said “no”! He should have signed out of high school and had it in his contract that they would pay for school.
By not signing, he missed 4 years of opportunity. (He was in the A’s organization. We played fantasy baseball, then known as Rotisserie. He would alway diss Luis Polonia and Stan Javier, who were in rookie ball with him, saying they sucked. )
[/QUOTE]
yeah I hear you. If I was a burger boy...I might go the euro/austrailia/gleaugue route myself...

But isnt a bit ironic that a forum dedicated to a college basketball team is full of posters that they think all of its players are better off not even playing for that team?

How does that add up?

Why doesnt syracuse just leave the acc and join the ivy? play actual student athletes with little chance of being pros so they arent ruining their players' careers...

---how many of you would still watch if that was the case???