JB and the Bench | Page 13 | Syracusefan.com

JB and the Bench

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MSOrange said:
Do I get a prize for guessing the top 5 in the Top Contributors section of this thread? Like that was hard...
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It's an all-star lineup.
 
HOFCeluck said:
Wow. This thread.
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Just saw it this morning and read thru about 2 pages, all the while thinking... there is a 13 page thread about using the bench more for a team that had 6 healthy scholarship players available.

Could HW have played about 10 minutes instead of 2? Probably.

Would that have any impact on anything? Probably not.

If you want to know why we don’t use the bench more, blame Geno Thorpe’s ego and Taureen Thompson’s mom.

Should I read thru the rest?
 
well stocking and developing the bench is ultimately the head coaches number one priority. but that is another day's conversation.
the fact remains that every year Jim Boeheim plays a short bench and lands multiple players in the top ten list in minutes played.
he's on record many many times stating his philosophy that today's players can play 40 minutes. it's not that he can't sub in it's that he doesn't want to. this year we have 3 players in the ncaa most minutes per game category. battle is #2 (38.3 ), oshae is #4 (38.1 ) and howard is #9 (37.6)

here's your wooden watch list. the best players in the nation. ask yourself why they are sitting and averaging only 32.2 minutes per game?

Grayson Allen Duke 32 mpg
Deandre Ayton Arizona 32 mpg
Marvin Bagley III Duke 32 mpg
Mohamed Bamba Texas 30 mpg
Joel Berry II N.C, 31 mpg
Trevon Bluiett Xavier 34 mpg
Mikal Bridges Vill 31 mpg
Miles Bridges Michigan State 30 mpg
Jalen Brunson Villanova 31 mpg
Jevon Carter West Virginia 35mpg
Bonzie Colson Notre Dame 34mpg
Angel Delgado Seton Hall 30mpg
Marcus Foster Creighton 30mpg
Devonte' Graham Kansas 36mpg
Tra Holder Arizona State 35mpg
Aaron Holiday UCLA 37mpg
Jock Landale Saint Mary's 34mpg
Yante Maten Georgia 34mpg
Luke Maye North Carolina 32 mpg
Brandon McCoy UNLV 27 mpg
Jordan Murphy Minnesota 31 mpg
Collin Sexton Alabama 30 mpg
Landry Shamet Wichita State 30 mpg
Allonza Trier Arizona 34 mpg
Trae Young Oklahoma 34 mpg

if your best players needs to be on the court for the full 40 plus overtime every game then all these coaches apparently didn't get the memo.
boeheim's basic philosophy is just plain bananas and his lack of bench minutes is his own fault.
 
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tbonezone said:
well stocking and developing the bench is ultimately the head coaches number one priority. but that is another day's conversation.
the fact remains that every year Jim Boeheim plays a short bench and lands multiple players in the top ten list in minutes played.
he's on record many many times stating his philosophy that today's players can play 40 minutes. it's not that he can't sub in it's that he doesn't want to. this year we have 3 players in the ncaa most minutes per game category. battle is #2 (38.3 ), oshae is #4 (38.1 ) and howard is #9 (37.6)

here's your wooden watch list. the best players in the nation. ask yourself why they are sitting and averaging only 32.2 minutes per game?

Grayson Allen Duke 32 mpg
Deandre Ayton Arizona 32 mpg
Marvin Bagley III Duke 32 mpg
Mohamed Bamba Texas 30 mpg
Joel Berry II N.C, 31 mpg
Trevon Bluiett Xavier 34 mpg
Mikal Bridges Vill 31 mpg
Miles Bridges Michigan State 30 mpg
Jalen Brunson Villanova 31 mpg
Jevon Carter West Virginia 35mpg
Bonzie Colson Notre Dame 34mpg
Angel Delgado Seton Hall 30mpg
Marcus Foster Creighton 30mpg
Devonte' Graham Kansas 36mpg
Tra Holder Arizona State 35mpg
Aaron Holiday UCLA 37mpg
Jock Landale Saint Mary's 34mpg
Yante Maten Georgia 34mpg
Luke Maye North Carolina 32 mpg
Brandon McCoy UNLV 27 mpg
Jordan Murphy Minnesota 31 mpg
Collin s e xton Alabama 30 mpg
Landry Shamet Wichita State 30 mpg
Allonza Trier Arizona 34 mpg
Trae Young Oklahoma 34 mpg

if your best players needs to be on the court for the full 40 plus overtime every game then all these coaches apparently didn't get the memo.
boeheim's basic philosophy is just plain bananas and his lack of bench minutes is his own fault.
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Devonte Graham 36mpg. Aaron Holiday 37mpg. Tyus Battle 38mpg. The teams with no depth have to play their best players a lot of minutes. What shooting guard is coming in for Battle? Graham played 40 minutes against Syracuse by the way. In a 16 point win. So Kansas, who was up 21 on Syracuse, couldn't give their best player 1 minute of rest? Amazing! In fact, Graham has played all 40 minutes in each of their last 3 games. Actually, Graham has played 40 minutes 6 times this season! Graham averages 39mpg in Big 12 play. That Bill Self is bananas! :) Also, how could Bill Self construct a roster with only 3 guards? That's roster mismanagement!

Edit: Upon further review...Aaron Holiday has also played 40 minutes 6 times this season, including 43 minutes against that beast Central Arkansas! He played 43 against Michigan and 48 against Stanford. He even played 40 minutes against 7-14 Cal the other night. I guess Steve Alford is bananas too.

Like I said, playing 40 minutes is no big deal for these kids, and playing even more is not a problem either. Other coaches do it, but our anti-Boeheim folk won't admit it.
 
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tbonezone said:
well stocking and developing the bench is ultimately the head coaches number one priority. but that is another day's conversation.
the fact remains that every year Jim Boeheim plays a short bench and lands multiple players in the top ten list in minutes played.
he's on record many many times stating his philosophy that today's players can play 40 minutes. it's not that he can't sub in it's that he doesn't want to. this year we have 3 players in the ncaa most minutes per game category. battle is #2 (38.3 ), oshae is #4 (38.1 ) and howard is #9 (37.6)

here's your wooden watch list. the best players in the nation. ask yourself why they are sitting and averaging only 32.2 minutes per game?

Grayson Allen Duke 32 mpg
Deandre Ayton Arizona 32 mpg
Marvin Bagley III Duke 32 mpg
Mohamed Bamba Texas 30 mpg
Joel Berry II N.C, 31 mpg
Trevon Bluiett Xavier 34 mpg
Mikal Bridges Vill 31 mpg
Miles Bridges Michigan State 30 mpg
Jalen Brunson Villanova 31 mpg
Jevon Carter West Virginia 35mpg
Bonzie Colson Notre Dame 34mpg
Angel Delgado Seton Hall 30mpg
Marcus Foster Creighton 30mpg
Devonte' Graham Kansas 36mpg
Tra Holder Arizona State 35mpg
Aaron Holiday UCLA 37mpg
Jock Landale Saint Mary's 34mpg
Yante Maten Georgia 34mpg
Luke Maye North Carolina 32 mpg
Brandon McCoy UNLV 27 mpg
Jordan Murphy Minnesota 31 mpg
Collin s e xton Alabama 30 mpg
Landry Shamet Wichita State 30 mpg
Allonza Trier Arizona 34 mpg
Trae Young Oklahoma 34 mpg

if your best players needs to be on the court for the full 40 plus overtime every game then all these coaches apparently didn't get the memo.
boeheim's basic philosophy is just plain bananas and his lack of bench minutes is his own fault.
Expand...

Yet another beauty.

First of all, "well stocking and developing the bench is ultimately the head coaches number one priority" is flat wrong.

All that work and you missed the point?

The short bench has everything to do with 1.) JB not wanting to put players in the game that he doesn't have confidence in not making mistakes that will lose the game for them and 2) JB's belief that these players are not tired or that even if they are they are less prone to making game losing bad plays than the guys riding the pine.
 
I think some here are thinking like JB that its a one game thing and the players can sleep tonight. But others are thinking of the cumulative effect. How many think that overall cumulative tiredness of the top guys was improved by the one week off? Anybody see the extra bounce in Battle's step?
 
Forloveoforange said:
I think some here are thinking like JB that its a one game thing and the players can sleep tonight. But others are thinking of the cumulative effect. How many think that overall cumulative tiredness of the top guys was improved by the one week off? Anybody see the extra bounce in Battle's step?
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I get that, I just don't buy it. Neither does Bill Self, Steve Alford, Coach K, or Mike Brey. They have multiple days off between games most of the time. I think it's a non-issue. People complained about this a couple years ago about Cooney and Gbinije and we landed in the Final Four.
 
Forloveoforange said:
I think some here are thinking like JB that its a one game thing and the players can sleep tonight. But others are thinking of the cumulative effect. How many think that overall cumulative tiredness of the top guys was improved by the one week off? Anybody see the extra bounce in Battle's step?
Expand...

That "extra bounce" --- if it wasn't just your imagination --- could be due to Battle's enthusiasm over being able to get back into the fray and to experience the adrenaline high associated with competition.

Much more psychological than physiological.
 
funny you'd mention devonte graham of kansas. KANSAS is the only team currently ranked in the top 25 to have a player in the NCAA top 100 most mpg and wooden . (he's 37th.) one other player from a ranked top 25 team appears on that list (emmitt near st marys). and we got 3 in the top 10 !
 
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tbonezone said:
funny you'd mention devonte graham of kansas. KANSAS is the only team currently ranked in the top 25 to have a player in the NCAA top 100 most minutes per game . (he's 37th.) one other player from a ranked top 25 team appears on that list (emmitt near st marys). and we got 3 in the top 10 !
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So if Devonte Graham can play 40 mpg, why can't Battle? What does Top 25 have to do with anything? Syracuse, like UCLA, is trying to win enough games to make the tournament. If Arron Holiday can play 40 mpg, why can't Battle?
 
top 25 means you're winning games. and name me the 0ther 2 jayhawks averaging 38 + for the season. it doesn't work.
the people rest your honor. (which is more than i can say for syracuse players.)
 
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tbonezone said:
funny you'd mention devonte graham of kansas. KANSAS is the only team currently ranked in the top 25 to have a player in the NCAA top 100 most mpg and wooden watch . (he's 37th.) one other player from a ranked top 25 team appears on that list (emmitt near st marys). and we got 3 in the top 10 !
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My guess is that the top teams find themselves in more one-sided games where coaches are more apt to empty their benches, thereby reducing the chances that their best players will consistently see big minutes. Just a wild thought I had.
 
AlpharettaCuse said:
I get that, I just don't buy it. Neither does Bill Self, Steve Alford, Coach K, or Mike Brey. They have multiple days off between games most of the time. I think it's a non-issue. People complained about this a couple years ago about Cooney and Gbinije and we landed in the Final Four.
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Alford has roster issues due to the China shoplifting problem. It's not like he's doing it by choice.
 
that would make sense. except for say a 62-47 blowout of eastern michigan where the starters play 40 to name just 1.
 
tbonezone said:
top 25 means you're winning games. and name me the 0ther 2 jayhawks averaging 38 + for the season. it doesn't work.
the people rest your honor. (which is more than i can say for syracuse players.)
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So Kansas is Top 10 playing their best player 40 mpg? Thank you. I guess it's not so terrible.

Top 25 teams generally don't have depth issues, meaning they can bring in players to spell their stars, especially in blowouts. We don't have that luxury. Trae Young has played 40 minutes in 3 of their last 4 games. Why?
 
CuseFaninVT said:
Alford has roster issues due to the China shoplifting problem. It's not like he's doing it by choice.
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Oh. Well, JB has roster issues because Taurean Thompson and Geno Thorpe quit the team.

What's Bill Self's excuse?
 
the best players from the best programs aren't playing 40. read the numbers. what don't you get ? it's the exact opposite of what you think.
anyone can play 40 for a few games. doing it all season is unwise. as demonstrated.
 
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tbonezone said:
that would make sense. except for say a 62-47 blowout of eastern michigan where the starters play 40 to name just 1.
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That game was tied at the half, Sidibe was out, and it was a close game until the end.

I don't recall anyone crying about Battle playing 45 minutes in the OT win over Georgetown. When he scored 8 pts in the OT, and won the game for us.
 
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tbonezone said:
the best players from the best program aren't playing 40. read the numbers. what don't you get ? it's the exact opposite of what you think.
anyone can play 40 for a few games. doing it all season is unwise. as demonstrated.
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Bill Self doesn't agree with you. Neither does Lon Kruger at Oklahoma. Or Bob Huggins at West Virginia, who is riding Jevon Carter 37-40 mpg. :)

Syracuse is not one of the best teams in the country, and playing Battle less is not going to help us get to the tournament. Know why? He's our best player. Those guys tend to play the most minutes.
 
MSOrange said:
He only has 8 scholarship players eligible also. Did you really not bother to research that? If you look at his history over the last several seasons, he's played Graham and Mason a lot but that's been pretty abnormal for him

Kansas Jayhawks 2017-18 Statistics - Team and Player Stats - Men's College Basketball - ESPN
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You are what I call reasonable.
You aren’t a blind follower of JB.
Nor are you as critical as I am even though I am fair.

I feel like you are like when LBJ said if I have lost Walter Cronikite I have lost the nation. If you have lost MSOrange you have gone overboard.
 
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