Jerami Grant

[TinyManInside]

Well, do you think Wes was a bust? He's not a superstar (mostly defensive player). But he's been in the league 8 years, is starting for the Clippers and making almost $6M a year? I mean, maybe that's not the high (scoring) ceiling you'd hope for in a #4 pick, but it's not a bust either. IMO.

You have to consider draft position when you're considering whether a guy is a bust or not. At #4 in the draft, Wes has pretty much been a bust. You're not looking for a rotational role player at that position. He's been fine for say a #15 pick, but not for a #4.

 

[moqui]

also you have to consider relative to the draft class, as not all draft classes are alike.

jerami, chosen 39th, is 13th in his class in career win shares (19th in win shares per 48 minutes), 22nd in box plus/minus and 20th in value over replacement player. not bad - but the guy taken 2 spots later is #1 in all of those categories - nikola jokic. that year, the 2nd round had several great performers - dwight powell, jordan clarkson, spencer dinwiddie in addition to grant & jokic.

fwiw: wes was chosen 4th and is 17th in his class in career win shares (but 34th in ws/48), 21st in bpm and 14th in vorp.

but if wes is a bust, what about dion? also chosen 4th, he is 25h in win shares (and 40th in ws/48), 32nd in bpm and 53rd (!) in vorp - the latter two are negative values. and he's been paid even more than wes while missing a ton of games

 

[billsin01]

There’s a group who is 100 percent convinced that the college experience and playing in front of 30k is the end all be all for an NBA prospect and riding the bus between Sioux Falls and Grand Rapids is a fate worse than death.

I get that -- I just get frustrated by the alternate narratives that (a) somehow these kids are indentured servants in college and that (b) somehow the NBA is the only place a player can develop. Oh and also (c) that draft position is somehow the only relevant data point in terms of making a decision on the NBA. All of this said, of course, it's the kid's decision and I'm fine with anything they decide.

 

[djcon57]

I was told Grant "wasn't ready for the NBA"

Amazing. It's almost like being "ready for the NBA" isn't a real thing

 

[Bayside44]

I was told Grant "wasn't ready for the NBA"

Amazing. It's almost like being "ready for the NBA" isn't a real thing

He played for a team that set out to lose. Mission accomplished there. As he's hitting his mid 20s he's blossoming which is pretty normal.

 

[HOFCeluck]

he's blossoming which is pretty normal.

I just...don’t even know what to say. I’ve got nothing.

You’re not wrong, I’m just not sure I would’ve phrased it ...like that.

 

[reedny]

You have to consider draft position when you're considering whether a guy is a bust or not. At #4 in the draft, Wes has pretty much been a bust. You're not looking for a rotational role player at that position. He's been fine for say a #15 pick, but not for a #4.

I see your point. For an early lottery pick he's probably underperformed. But for a player starting for an NBA team in mostly a defensive role and making almost $6m a year, I have a difficult time with the term "bust".

 

[HOFCeluck]

I see your point. For an early lottery pick he's probably underperformed. But for a player starting on an NBA team in mostly a defensive role and making almost $6m a year, I have a difficult time with the term "bust".

Yeah I tend to think of it in terms of time spent in the League. Wes is in his eighth year in the NBA which is not something to be dismissed quickly IMO.

 

[Bayside44]

I just...don’t even know what to say. I’ve got nothing.

You’re not wrong, I’m just not sure I would’ve phrased it ...like that.

Maturing ?

 

[br801]

Yeah I tend to think of it in terms of time spent in the League. Wes is in his eighth year in the NBA which is not something to be dismissed quickly IMO.

I wonder how many of the approximately 5,000 guys who have played in an NBA or ABA game have had careers of eight years or longer.

 

[djcon57]

He played for a team that set out to lose. Mission accomplished there. As he's hitting his mid 20s he's blossoming which is pretty normal.

So?
He wasn’t “ready”. Now he is.

Yet I see plenty other players who were “ready” and are no longer in the league.
From that very draft, Adrien Payne. Sr from Mich State. HE WAS READY, built like a MAN.
Out of the league.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Maturing ?

Hahahahahaha I'm just messing around.

But yeah that sounds good. "Blossoming" makes me think he's buying a training bra or something. I have problems.

 

[Bayside44]

So?
He wasn’t “ready”. Now he is.

Yet I see plenty other players who were “ready” and are no longer in the league.
From that very draft, Adrien Payne. Sr from Mich State. HE WAS READY, built like a MAN.
Out of the league.

Really not sure your point. Grants opportunity was really unique. Good for him but hardly a new path for guys considering where he went and what they were doing.

 

[shandeezy7]

I wonder how many of the approximately 5,000 guys who have played in an NBA or ABA game have had careers of eight years or longer.

Average NBA career length is about 4.5 years, so my guess would be a relatively small percentage.

 

[djcon57]

Really not sure your point. Grants opportunity was really unique. Good for him but hardly a new path for guys considering where he went and what they were doing.

I’m not really sure what your point is every time you bring this up.

Grant was drafted by a bad team and played well. Well enough to stay on the team and continue to play in the NBA. How is that a super rare case?

Is your point that 2nd round draft picks don’t play in their first year?

 

[shandeezy7]

I’m not really sure what your point is every time you bring this up.

Grant was drafted by a bad team and played well. Well enough to stay on the team and continue to play in the NBA. How is that a super rare case?

Is your point that 2nd round draft picks don’t play in their first year?

I think it was more that he got a 4 year contract with 2 years guaranteed as a second round pick. I don't believe that happens very often. Your more likely to get a 2-way G-League contract, a non-guaranteed contract or nothing at all. Although it could be said looking back that Grant didn't get the best deal, as being locked in for 4 years kept him below his market value for the past 2 years.

 

[realorange]

I wonder how many of the approximately 5,000 guys who have played in an NBA or ABA game have had careers of eight years or longer.

Certainly less than half.

 

[DoctorBombay]

How are all the others doing?

Ummm...I think they're doing just fine.

 

[Bayside44]

I’m not really sure what your point is every time you bring this up.

Grant was drafted by a bad team and played well. Well enough to stay on the team and continue to play in the NBA. How is that a super rare case?

Is your point that 2nd round draft picks don’t play in their first year?

My point was he was fortunate but not a path that others can easily use.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Maturing ?

Blossoming is accurrately descriptive.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Certainly less than half.

Average NBA Career Length for Players – Details

9 years would be double the average

 

[cuseincincy]

also you have to consider relative to the draft class, as not all draft classes are alike.

jerami, chosen 39th, is 13th in his class in career win shares (19th in win shares per 48 minutes), 22nd in box plus/minus and 20th in value over replacement player. not bad - but the guy taken 2 spots later is #1 in all of those categories - nikola jokic. that year, the 2nd round had several great performers - dwight powell, jordan clarkson, spencer dinwiddie in addition to grant & jokic.

fwiw: wes was chosen 4th and is 17th in his class in career win shares (but 34th in ws/48), 21st in bpm and 14th in vorp.

but if wes is a bust, what about dion? also chosen 4th, he is 25h in win shares (and 40th in ws/48), 32nd in bpm and 53rd (!) in vorp - the latter two are negative values. and he's been paid even more than wes while missing a ton of games

για ποιό πράγμα μιλάς?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Much harder to return to school... there's the scholarship situation, maybe you're living in a different city and have to get a job temporarily, or you get married, etc.. etc.. It's hardly ever dumb to get more education. Ask Justin Jackson and read the link. Sometimes waiting is a BETTER DECISION ... (going with your all-caps emphasis).

No. You just made money. Not hard at all. Thousands do it every year.

 

[reedny]

No. You just made money. Not hard at all. Thousands do it every year.

Yes, Taco Bell is hiring, Captain. That's where people are headed in this economy without a trade-skill or a college degree.

 

[realorange]

Yes, Taco Bell is hiring, Captain. That's where people are headed in this economy without a trade-skill or a college degree.

Even with a college degree, it better be in the right area or Taco Bell will still be hiring.