Jesse Edwards is SO @#$& good

[Day2]

I especially like the way Jesse uses the backboard on many of his shots.

I like how he adjusts his shot in midair when necessary. Sometimes he takes off from way out, like he’s going to pull a Tom Chambers, and then he realizes he needs to lay it in.

 

[RF2044]

Think of all the lower recruits who became stars and pros. Moten, Warrick, Rautins, Douglas, Lydon, Grant, Boeheim, etc., Look at Jesse and Frank. Huge improvement. Our guys who put in work almost always get better.
One UNC player/announcer (might have been Hubert Davis) even commented one time about the year 1 to year 2 jumps SU players make.

There have certainly been examples of players who we've recruited that have far outshot their recruiting rankings. But a couple of the players you list happened 30+ years ago. Most listed were 10+ years ago.

There's a reason for that. Player development has been a huge issue in recent years, not sure how this can be debated. For every darkhorse who emerged, there are counter-examples of highly rated recruits who did NOT improve, develop, or live up to expectations.

 

[721Comstock]

There have certainly been examples of players who we've recruited that have far outshot their recruiting rankings. But a couple of the players you list happened 30+ years ago. Most listed were 10+ years ago.

There's a reason for that. Player development has been a huge issue in recent years, not sure how this can be debated. For every darkhorse who emerged, there are counter-examples of highly rated recruits who did NOT improve, develop, or live up to expectations.

Honestly, our ONLY saving grace the past nearly decade or so, is the fact that several of our under the radar guys ended up being pretty damn good.

Since quite a few of the higher ranked guys, ended up fizzling out.

For every Buddy or Marek, there's been a Kaleb or Jalen.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

There have certainly been examples of players who we've recruited that have far outshot their recruiting rankings. But a couple of the players you list happened 30+ years ago. Most listed were 10+ years ago.

There's a reason for that. Player development has been a huge issue in recent years, not sure how this can be debated. For every darkhorse who emerged, there are counter-examples of highly rated recruits who did NOT improve, develop, or live up to expectations.

IMO, guys reach their max, if they work. Higher rated guys may have maxed out already or didn’t work at SU. Not sure who left SU and starred elsewhere. Lots of top ranked guys fizzle out at Duke, UNC, etc.

 

[Mareiniss]

IMO, guys reach their max, if they work. Higher rated guys may have maxed out already or didn’t work at SU. Not sure who left SU and starred elsewhere. Lots of top ranked guys fizzle out at Duke, UNC, etc.

Michael Gbinije struggled at Duke, but prospered at SU. The list of others who made big jumps at SU should include both Boeheim brothers, who are known to be hard workers (of course, I'm sure it helped them to have an indoor basketball court and a Hall of Fame basketball coach at home, too).

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Michael Gbinije struggled at Duke, but prospered at SU. The list of others who made big jumps at SU should include both Boeheim brothers, who are known to be hard workers (of course, I'm sure it helped them to have an indoor basketball court and a Hall of Fame basketball coach at home, too).

I'll give you Buddy, but this is Jimmy's first month with the team. Can't call that progression from previous, because there was no previous.

 

[RF2044]

IMO, guys reach their max, if they work. Higher rated guys may have maxed out already or didn’t work at SU. Not sure who left SU and starred elsewhere. Lots of top ranked guys fizzle out at Duke, UNC, etc.

Personally, I don't think it is that black and white.

Historically, JB identified lots of darkhorse guys who ended up being really, really good. And every program has recruits who don't pan out, so I don't view that as an indictment on JB.

BUT that said, we've had an inordinate number of "misses" post-sanctions that have really hurt the team. And the impact of those misses has been exacerbated by lack of depth due to reduced scholarships, and due to missing out on some of our key targets [Quade Green, Thomas Bryant, etc.], and due to unexpected departures from key players [Ennis, Lydon, Mali, etc.].

Specifically, Kaleb Joseph was the hand-picked successor for Ennis. If he'd been capable, he would have stabilized the PG position post-Ennis. There's no shame in a frosh not being fully ready, but where was the development heading into year 2? And then a few years later, the hand picked guy was Carey. Meanwhile, both of those seasons we passed on OTHER guards who might have helped a helluva lot more.

We also have examples like BJ Johnson, who didn't develop into a contributor here but ended up proving to be an NBA caliber player after leaving. Why wasn't a physically underdeveloped kid like this redshirted to give him a year for his physical maturity to catch up with his athleticism, and maximize his development long-term?

So while some of it may have to do with work ethic, that doesn't tell the full story. I think some of the inconsistencies with respect to player development may have to do with the staff, JB's waning involvement over the past few years [especially before the Hopkins departure], and recruiting problems.

We've had highly rated players excel and outshoot their HS rankings. CJ was injured coming out of HS, so his rating was probably too low -- and he became an All-American. Gbinije [from your example] was a McD's AA -- he just needed a change of scenery to get on the floor. Grant was pretty highly rated, and had outstanding bloodlines -- but he didn't show any semblance of the perimeter skills he's shown at the professional level while he was here; his development seemed to take place AFTER he left SU.

But in the main, player development has been a problem area for us for an extended period of years. I don't think that there is any one "root cause," but I can't overlook that when I see statements like you made earlier about JB's player development being "unparalleled" -- that overlooks a lot of significant evidence to the contrary.

 

[orangeinnyc]

Personally, I don't think it is that black and white.

Historically, JB identified lots of darkhorse guys who ended up being really, really good. And every program has recruits who don't pan out, so I don't view that as an indictment on JB.

BUT that said, we've had an inordinate number of "misses" post-sanctions that have really hurt the team. And the impact of those misses has been exacerbated by lack of depth due to reduced scholarships, and due to missing out on some of our key targets [Quade Green, Thomas Bryant, etc.], and due to unexpected departures from key players [Ennis, Lydon, Mali, etc.].

Specifically, Kaleb Joseph was the hand-picked successor for Ennis. If he'd been capable, he would have stabilized the PG position post-Ennis. There's no shame in a frosh not being fully ready, but where was the development heading into year 2? And then a few years later, the hand picked guy was Carey. Meanwhile, both of those seasons we passed on OTHER guards who might have helped a helluva lot more.

We also have examples like BJ Johnson, who didn't develop into a contributor here but ended up proving to be an NBA caliber player after leaving. Why wasn't a physically underdeveloped kid like this redshirted to give him a year for his physical maturity to catch up with his athleticism, and maximize his development long-term?

So while some of it may have to do with work ethic, that doesn't tell the full story. I think some of the inconsistencies with respect to player development may have to do with the staff, JB's waning involvement over the past few years [especially before the Hopkins departure], and recruiting problems.

We've had highly rated players excel and outshoot their HS rankings. CJ was injured coming out of HS, so his rating was probably too low -- and he became an All-American. Gbinije [from your example] was a McD's AA -- he just needed a change of scenery to get on the floor. Grant was pretty highly rated, and had outstanding bloodlines -- but he didn't show any semblance of the perimeter skills he's shown at the professional level while he was here; his development seemed to take place AFTER he left SU.

But in the main, player development has been a problem area for us for an extended period of years. I don't think that there is any one "root cause," but I can't overlook that when I see statements like you made earlier about JB's player development being "unparalleled" -- that overlooks a lot of significant evidence to the contrary.

I believe the staff wanted BJ Johnson to redshirt but he didn’t want too.

 

[721Comstock]

I believe the staff wanted BJ Johnson to redshirt but he didn’t want too.

Also - Roberson didn’t get cleared by the NCAA to play, and we had that Canadian tour w the tough game vs Carleton, in which BJ played well.

So JB let him play vs “strongly encouraging” him to RS.

And he played hardly any minutes as a Frosh.

When he sat out after his Soph season, he lifted and finally got the physical maturity to go with his hoops skills, and eventually became the player I always said he could be -
CJ Fair w Southy’s 3-ball.

 

[TheCusian]

He’s so good the ACC has announced he has two fouls already vs Duke

 

[cuseattle]

I've been wondering about next year already pertaining to Jesse. Think he might be featured as much as Senior year Rak at 17.5 ppg.

 

[SoBristol]

Personally, I don't think it is that black and white.

Historically, JB identified lots of darkhorse guys who ended up being really, really good. And every program has recruits who don't pan out, so I don't view that as an indictment on JB.

BUT that said, we've had an inordinate number of "misses" post-sanctions that have really hurt the team. And the impact of those misses has been exacerbated by lack of depth due to reduced scholarships . . . But in the main, player development has been a problem area for us for an extended period of years. I don't think that there is any one "root cause," but I can't overlook that when I see statements like you made earlier about JB's player development being "unparalleled" -- that overlooks a lot of significant evidence to the contrary.

There is a lot to unpack in your very long post (much of which I did not copy).

Recruiting is an inexact science, as we all know, in identifying who you want, landing your preferred choices, and projecting their development physically and in basketball skills. You have big hits (Lydon, Buddy, Edwards, Gbinje, Marek) as well as misses.

There are a few cases where we took player A, in favor of B who would surely take our offer, but more cases where we settled on a skinny center because better recruits went elsewhere.

When our players improve over their careers (with big jumps from year 1) do you credit genetics, summer S&C, summer skills developed at home, more playing time, our coaches for smart recruiting and running good practices? And for players who don’t, it falls on our staff?

Mixed bag of examples here and elsewhere because the science is inexact. If you think the root cause is our staff, carry on.