Justin Fuentes out at VT / Brent Pry in

[Cuse181]

Agree with everything but marked improvement. Are we really all that improved from 2019? We can prove it these next 2 games. But 2 losses means more of the same. And you need to revisit years 1 and 2 now.

Year 1: only 2 ACC Ws which was worst in division and 3rd worst in conference. Dungey went down with us 4-5. Maybe we beat NC State if he is healthy. Going 4-8 is a failed season.

Year 2: lost to Middle Tennessee and only 2 ACC Ws. Which was worst record in division and 2nd worst in conference. Again Dungey went down with us 4-5. Maybe the BC game is different but our D was so bad those last 3 games, I doubt he makes a difference. Going 4-8 is a failed season.

Those 2 seasons should now be held against him.

Year 4: only 2 ACC Ws which was 6th in division and tied for 12th overall. The last placed team in the ACC beat us that year.

Year 5: only 1 W overall and in conference. Which was the worst record in the ACC since Duke beat us. Tommy went down with us 1-3. If he were healthy we maybe have a chance in 3 of those losses. Even if we somehow won those 3 games we are 4-7 which is a failed season.

Year 6: only 2 ACC Ws thus far. If we lose our last 2 then only one team will have less losses than us in conference. That will make 5 out of 6 years where we were 12th or worse in the ACC overall and 4 out of 5 years where we were 6th or last in division. Not making a bowl is a failed season.

2018 is great but it can't make up for 5 bad seasons.

Shafer deserved to be fired but with his backup QB he went 4-8 (2-6) the year he was fired. Even the year before he got an ACC W with his starting QB out. And Shafer's last year we lost a lot of close games. So Dino has improved us vs 2015 how exactly?

2015
24-17 in 4th Q vs LSU with Mahoney at QB
6 point OT loss at UVA with a true frosh Dungey
3 point loss on game ending FG to Pitt
34-27 in 4th Q vs Clemson with Mahoney as QB

I fail to see how Dino 2016, 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021 is an improvement over Shafer 2015 should we lose these next 2 games. The records are the same and the games aren't any closer. Both 2016 and 2017 were a huge improvement in O, but were equally a huge set back on D. It evened out. We cannot be blinded by 50 passes a game if the end result is no different.

These next 2 games are huge. Any other program would fire Dino if he goes 0-2.

Man how quickly people forget how putrid the program was under Shafer. It seems like everyone has selective memory with past coaches. Just because Dino has struggled doesn’t mean keeping shafer was a good idea. Shafer was a continuity hire and he failed to keep the continuity, that’s why he was fired.

 

[Cuse181]

Shafer took over a better program so his job was easier. But Dino has had 6 years to make improvements. Is our roster next season really all that different than the one he had his 1st season here?

Shafer vs Dino in the ACC

ACC Win %
S: .2917
D: .3125 current, .300 if we lose the next 2, .340 if we win the next 2, .320 if we split the next 2
Unless we win the next 2, that isn't much of an improvement.

Against teams we play yearly:

Clemson
S: .000
D: .1667
This is a big feather in Dino's cap

FSU
S: .000
D: .200
FSU has been significantly down the last 5 seasons. I would argue Dino has been poor against FSU.

Louisville
S: .000
D: .200
Louisville has been down the last 4 seasons so again not sure this reflects well on Dino.

Pitt
S: .000
D: .200 current, .1667 with a loss, .3333 with a win
If we lose to Pitt it will be a blemish for Dino

NC State
S: .3333
D: .200 current, .1667 with a loss, .3333 with a win
If we lose to NC State this will be a bad sign for Dino

BC
S: .6666
D: .500
These are about the same

Wake
S: 1.000
D: .3333
This is a big difference

Our peer schools (BC and Wake) Shafer was 5-1 against. Dino is 5-7. Both of those schools have passed us by. It is great that Dino beat Clemson but you can't also be under .500 against BC and Wake. Otherwise you have no progress overall.

If they lose to a top 20 NC state team on the road it will be a bad sign for Dino? Why exactly do you think they should beat NC state? They have superior facilities, superior talent year in and year out and they are at home.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If they lose to a top 20 NC state team on the road it will be a bad sign for Dino? Why exactly do you think they should beat NC state? They have superior facilities, superior talent year in and year out and they are at home.

Reading comprehension

 

[qdawgg]

Man how quickly people forget how putrid the program was under Shafer. It seems like everyone has selective memory with past coaches. Just because Dino has struggled doesn’t mean keeping shafer was a good idea. Shafer was a continuity hire and he failed to keep the continuity, that’s why he was fired.

In the same way that people oversell what DB has done here. One good season. It’s no different than Shafer. 6 years of W/L record proves that. What other evidence is needed. It’s not like we’re arguing over how good or bad two seasons are. It’s 6 seasons of being one of the worst teams in the ACC.

I don’t get how that doesn’t resonate with people. We are one of the worst programs in the ACC over the last 6 years. What are people clinging too?

 

[jr4750]

It's sad to say but all a coach has to do here is win 6 FREAKING games, are you kidding me!?!?!!?

Win 6 games, make a bowl and you can stay as long as you want, ugh...

We as a battered fan base don't ask for much! geesh

Add to that we are now scheduling for almost a guaranteed 3 wins non conference. So being 3-5 in conference should be attainable.

 

[NJneer12]

I really don't know what we are expecting if SU and JW fire Dino. Unless this university wants to seriously invest in the program, I honestly feel Dino is the best we are going to get.

I'm not saying invest like the blueblood, land grant schools, but we have to be somewhat competitive to our ACC counterparts and regional rivals. The Athletics Dept has had some pretty decent donations from Ensley, the Tallys, and even some from BoD members. I don't know if any of Falk's recent donations went to sports. This was to just get the programs up to ACC speed, i.e. practice facility, new turf, etc.. The school's forever campaign just raised over one billion, which the Dome Renovation came from.

So they have boosters, and they have money. Unfortunately, they need more to compete. Does that mean more facilities? More analysts and a higher coaching salary pool? Do we fire the staff and actually upgrade it with notable staff to boost recruiting?

Do they need money? Maybe that means higher ST prices with better benefits available to donors? Maybe a better and more regional marketing campaign? Maybe start throwing tickets to non-profits and charities across the region?

From my perspective as an out of state STH. And it also seems there's a huge chasm between the locals, the school, and the alumni on the reality/expectations of this program.

TLR. SU needs to relieve itself or get off the pot.

 

[JeremyCuse]

In the same way that people oversell what DB has done here. One good season. It’s no different than Shafer. 6 years of W/L record proves that. What other evidence is needed. It’s not like we’re arguing over how good or bad two seasons are. It’s 6 seasons of being one of the worst teams in the ACC.

I don’t get how that doesn’t resonate with people. We are one of the worst programs in the ACC over the last 6 years. What are people clinging too?

There's a moderate but vocal % of the fanbase that simply will not move off of Dino and are prepared to go down with the ship barring a 1 or 2 game season. Not sure if its because of 2018 or they like him as a person or they just don't want to admit it its not working but for whatever reason they simply wont admit a change is needed. You saw it earlier in the year when some posters on here thought close losses to a god awful (at the time) FSU team and a Clemson team begging us to win was some great sign of progress and that those of us looking for a change were going to look like fools when this team easily qualified for a bowl game. Yes the team is better then last year (hard not to be) and the staff has done a much better job then last year but this is still a team/program with tons of issues in year 6 under Babers. I am not going to re-hash them yet again but we all know them and this team is once again headed to a non bowl year and under .500 record barring a major upset this week or next. I have no issue with him coming back if he finds a way to finish 6-6 but if we finish 5-7 he should be fired, period.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Man how quickly people forget how putrid the program was under Shafer. It seems like everyone has selective memory with past coaches. Just because Dino has struggled doesn’t mean keeping shafer was a good idea. Shafer was a continuity hire and he failed to keep the continuity, that’s why he was fired.

I think the idea is most fans(me included, he can take that cigar) wanted Shafer gone and looking at the overall numbers Dino has about the same success rate with more blowouts

I think the team looks better under Dino and he has signature wins that Shafer didn’t but ones winning % at Cuse is .414 and the other .378

 

[richard levy]

Looking ahead to 2023 the schedule sets up nice. Colgate, Western Michigan, Army at home and the one P5 OOC game at Purdue.

2-2, maybe

 

[HRE Otto IV]

In the same way that people oversell what DB has done here. One good season. It’s no different than Shafer. 6 years of W/L record proves that. What other evidence is needed. It’s not like we’re arguing over how good or bad two seasons are. It’s 6 seasons of being one of the worst teams in the ACC.

I don’t get how that doesn’t resonate with people. We are one of the worst programs in the ACC over the last 6 years. What
are people clinging too?

Atlantic conference records during Dino's tenure:

Clemson 43-5 .896
NC State 26-22 .542
Wake 23-22 .511
Louisville 22-27 .449
BC 21-27 .438
FSU 20-27 .426
SU 15-33 .313

Clemson has been great but the rest of the division has been down. Despite that SU is still by far the worst. We can't win games in a down ACC.

 

[Cusefan95]

Has a coach ever recovered? What is prior success? How long is too long to be patient?

You don't want a revolving door but you don't want to stick with a loser. A lot of these new hires are doomed from the start. How many times has there been head scratching hires? It is like these NFL teams taking QBs. Why stick with a bad QB just because you took him in the 1st round?

Frank Beamer is a good example - 24-40-1 after year 6; 2-8-1 in year 6. 23 straight bowl seasons after that.
Sack Mac pack was ready for a new coach in 1986; Syracuse went to the Sugar Bowl in '87.

I don't think Dino can come anywhere close to either of those guys, and I don't see anything that gives me hope success is right around the corner - but I don't think changing coaches is the slam dunk, no brainer decision its getting painted as by some here. I'd prefer we move on if we don't go to a bowl, but won't lose my mind if we don't make a change either...

 

[Cusefan69]

Some general random thoughts. The buyout would need to go well above JW for signoff given what that number would approximately be. I thought I recall someone saying ~$10mm. I wonder what his contract year date is, meaning does his new contract year start at the end of the season, Jan 1st or like Feb 1st? Weeks could be the difference between $10mm buyout or $5mm. The later it is, the smaller the selection of replacements. That seems relevant. If we pay the ~$10mm unplanned budget, does the BoT only approve a small new coach budget as a trade off? My random questions are meant to imply not everything is a simple pay the buyout decision and it is entirely possible behind the scenes that others higher up than ADJW may have different thoughts on doing the buyout. I think allot goes on behind the scenes and there are a bunch of levers getting pushed or pulled.

 

[two3zone]

Since 2010 550 million in buyout / dead money paid to college coaches.

And schools not having to pay tax is a joke.

 

[orangepassion]

Add to that we are now scheduling for almost a guaranteed 3 wins non conference. So being 3-5 in conference should be attainable.

The disappointing part is it's gotten to the point where making a bowl as a 6-6 team now feels like the equivalent of winning the National Championship. I'm not saying we should be National championship contenders, but making a Bowl game yearly with an occasional 9-win season doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[FasterCuse]

In the same way that people oversell what DB has done here. One good season. It’s no different than Shafer. 6 years of W/L record proves that. What other evidence is needed. It’s not like we’re arguing over how good or bad two seasons are. It’s 6 seasons of being one of the worst teams in the ACC.

I don’t get how that doesn’t resonate with people. We are one of the worst programs in the ACC over the last 6 years. What are people clinging too?

Maybe their eyes are still closed from the initial speech

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Frank Beamer is a good example - 24-40-1 after year 6; 2-8-1 in year 6. 23 straight bowl seasons after that.
Sack Mac pack was ready for a new coach in 1986; Syracuse went to the Sugar Bowl in '87.

I don't think Dino can come anywhere close to either of those guys, and I don't see anything that gives me hope success is right around the corner - but I don't think changing coaches is the slam dunk, no brainer decision its getting painted as by some here. I'd prefer we move on if we don't go to a bowl, but won't lose my mind if we don't make a change either...

Beamer's 1st few years he had to deal with probation. His year 6 is a lot like Dino's year 6 though. Beamer did fire both his OC and DC after that season. Will Dino make changes again?

Coach Mac had a lot more consistency than Dino has had. If FCS games were a thing Mac would have been:

4-6-1
2-9
7-5
7-5
8-5
6-6

Dino is nowhere near that.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Beamer's 1st few years he had to deal with probation. His year 6 is a lot like Dino's year 6 though. Beamer did fire both his OC and DC after that season. Will Dino make changes again?

Coach Mac had a lot more consistency than Dino has had. If FCS games were a thing Mac would have been:

4-6-1
2-9
7-5
7-5
8-5
6-6

Dino is nowhere near that.

Mac wasn‘t playing in the ACC either.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Mac wasn‘t playing in the ACC either.

The ACC has been mainly crap outside of Clemson. Look at the lack of Top 25 finishes. Mac had it harder.

 

[kcsu]

Not many students pay sticker, in fact surprisingly few.

All of the Chinese students and most of the foreign students pay full fare some more

 

[the villager]

I think most people that post here want Dino to succeed.I posted before that he seems to have a winning personality. He has recruited some very good players ( he gets credit whether deserving) it comes down to coaching. The coaching buck stops with Dino it needs to improve or he will be gone.

 

[RF2044]

In the same way that people oversell what DB has done here. One good season. It’s no different than Shafer. 6 years of W/L record proves that. What other evidence is needed. It’s not like we’re arguing over how good or bad two seasons are. It’s 6 seasons of being one of the worst teams in the ACC.

I don’t get how that doesn’t resonate with people. We are one of the worst programs in the ACC over the last 6 years. What are people clinging too?

Because it's nothing like Shafer. Shafer took over a team that had just been to a bowl, had a pretty good year his first season with players he primarily inherited, and then spiraled down the drain as his poor recruiting dragged the team down.

Dino took over that abysmal roster and built up to a winner. His big fault, IMO, was not having a QB to replace Dungey. He needed one of DeVito or Amie to pan out as a quality starter, and neither of them did for various reasons. If they had, that 5-7 2019 season would have probably been a bowl year. And we're knocking on the cusp this year.

 

[orangepassion]

Because it's nothing like Shafer. Shafer took over a team that had just been to a bowl, had a pretty good year his first season with players he primarily inherited, and then spiraled down the drain as his poor recruiting dragged the team down.

Dino took over that abysmal roster and built up to a winner. His big fault, IMO, was not having a QB to replace Dungey. He needed one of DeVito or Amie to pan out as a quality starter, and neither of them did for various reasons. If they had, that 5-7 2019 season would have probably been a bowl year. And we're knocking on the cusp this year.

Is our roster so much better now? Dungey and Ish were better than any QB and WR he brought in (with the possible exception of 1 year of AET). It's a little better on the D side of the ball.

 

[RF2044]

Is our roster so much better now? Dungey and Ish were better than any QB and WR he brought in (with the possible exception of 1 year of AET). It's a little better on the D side of the ball.

I think it is better on defense, and I think depth is better [we've had a ridiculous string of injuries the past few years; OL has been particularly hit hard, even this year, and we've almost overcome it with depth]. I think Tucker is better than any RB from the 2018 season. WRs haven't been good, and it is costing us this year. But you also have to give him credit for AET, Trishton, etc. Shrader has been good, outside of last game.

 

[Bayside44]

Because it's nothing like Shafer. Shafer took over a team that had just been to a bowl, had a pretty good year his first season with players he primarily inherited, and then spiraled down the drain as his poor recruiting dragged the team down.

Dino took over that abysmal roster and built up to a winner. His big fault, IMO, was not having a QB to replace Dungey. He needed one of DeVito or Amie to pan out as a quality starter, and neither of them did for various reasons. If they had, that 5-7 2019 season would have probably been a bowl year. And we're knocking on the cusp this year.

Shafer was a continuity hire who threw out everything Marrone was doing. I'm still amazed that we had Gross here and the damage done from that era.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Shafer was a continuity hire who threw out everything Marrone was doing. I'm still amazed that we had Gross here and the damage done from that era.

We hire Shafer who’s now DC at MTS meanwhile Hackett is OC for GB and being talked about as a possible NFL head coach… feel like Hackett was the continuity hire that could have been made