LAX Conference Expansion

[longtimefan]

Title 9 is the problem

Most college graduates are female at this point, but we need to limit men's participation anyway.

Just another messed up part of our world today that makes no sense.

More Boys play Lacrosse, but there are 120 women's teams and 71 mens teams...

Football--85.

 

[Orangeman]

Football--85.

There are 131 NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision teams, plus the 125 FCS teams

At a minimum, Title IX needs to be revamped with a special exemption for Football since there is no off-setting sport on the women's side. But this would make too much sense, never happen

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Football has 85 … scholarships

 

[CuseAlum87]

Football has 85 … scholarships

and they are all full rides--that is a huge nut to offset.

 

[Hoo's That]

There are 131 NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision teams, plus the 125 FCS teams

At a minimum, Title IX needs to be revamped with a special exemption for Football since there is no off-setting sport on the women's side. But this would make too much sense, never happen

Never. Happening. Senator John Tower of Texas couldn't get one when Title IX was first under consideration in the 70s. There's absolutely, positively no way there would be one now.

Here is the relevant text of Title IX. Please explain how the Department of Education (which enforces Title IX) can carve out an exemption for football as it's presently constituted.

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance, ...

The colleges themselves have been defined as the "program or activity".

 

[Hoo's That]

Football has 85 … scholarships

... and a roster of over 100. Purely and simply, they need to cut back the number of football scholarships and ignore the coaches screams. The screamed about how football would die if they were cut back to 85. they'll scream just as loudly if it were cut back to 75 or 65.

Rowing is the largest team for women's sports. It currently has the highest scholarship limit of any women's sport, 20, and many teams have over 60 on the roster.

 

[Hoo's That]

Here are some things to remember in all of this. The MCLA has a rule that no school that has a varsity lacrosse team can be a member of the MCLA. Those schools have to be members of the NCLL (the National Club Lacrosse League). Athletic directors of schools like Colorado, Texas, Georgia Tech, and BYU love the present MCLA setup because it gets their schools' names into the world of lacrosse at zero expense to them. Why should they put out any money when the present system is free? The only reason a school like FSU is mentioned as possibly starting a team is that a sugar daddy has stepped forward to endow the costs for both teams, so there won't be as much of a draw on the athletic department's resources. This is also why UVa has men's and women's varsity squash teams. (The UVa squash sugar daddy is also putting up the money to improve the facilities.)

 

[wgdsr]

Here are some things to remember in all of this. The MCLA has a rule that no school that has a varsity lacrosse team can be a member of the MCLA. Those schools have to be members of the NCLL (the National Club Lacrosse League). Athletic directors of schools like Colorado, Texas, Georgia Tech, and BYU love the present MCLA setup because it gets their schools' names into the world of lacrosse at zero expense to them. Why should they put out any money when the present system is free? The only reason a school like FSU is mentioned as possibly starting a team is that a sugar daddy has stepped forward to endow the costs for both teams, so there won't be as much of a draw on the athletic department's resources. This is also why UVa has men's and women's varsity squash teams. (The UVa squash sugar daddy is also putting up the money to improve the facilities.)

mcla dropped that rule last year.

 

[Hoo's That]

mcla dropped that rule last year.

I'll try to remember that in future diatribes.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Breaking Down the Division I Men's Conference Landscape

Now that the 2022 season is over, let's look ahead to the conference makeup of 2023.

www.usalaxmagazine.com

AMERICA EAST​

2023 Lineup: Albany, Binghamton, Bryant, NJIT, UMass Lowell, UMBC, Vermont
In: Bryant
Out: Hartford, Stony Brook
What it means: The addition of Bryant is a positive and offsets Stony Brook’s departure as well as Hartford’s drop to Division III, although the Hawks didn’t play in 2022, either.

ASUN​

2023 Lineup: Air Force, Bellarmine, Cleveland State, Detroit Mercy, Jacksonville, Lindenwood, Mercer, Queens, Robert Morris, Utah
In: Jacksonville, Lindenwood, Mercer, Queens
Out: none
What it means: Arguably the most eclectic league stretching west from Utah, south to Florida and north to Michigan. Jacksonville returns home, and Mercer moves from the SoCon, while Queens joins as a full member and Lindenwood joins as an associate. At 10 members and with Merrimack currently without a home, the potential remains for another split to add another automatic qualifier if another Division I team comes on board.

ATLANTIC COAST​

2023 Lineup: Duke, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Virginia
In: none
Out: none
What it means: The ACC continues to ride without the automatic qualifier and was a one-bid league this past season. Without prospects of expansion on the horizon, it appears that will continue for a while.

ATLANTIC 10​

2023 Lineup: High Point, Hobart, Richmond, St. Bonaventure, Saint Joseph’s, UMass
In: High Point, Hobart, Richmond, St. Bonaventure, Saint Joseph’s, UMass
Out: none
What it means: The Atlantic 10 adding men’s lacrosse has been a major part of the conference shakeup this year. While the league didn’t add Fairfield, don’t be surprised if it eventually finds another team to join its ranks or even sees one of its many non-football playing schools add the sport.

BIG EAST​

2023 Lineup: Denver, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John’s, Villanova
In: none
Out: none
What it means: The six teams hold steady for 2023 and the foreseeable future.

BIG TEN​

2023 Lineup: Johns Hopkins, Maryland, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
In: none
Out: none
What it means: The Big Ten also remains unchanged.

COLONIAL ATHLETIC​

2023 Lineup: Delaware, Drexel, Fairfield, Hampton, Hofstra, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Towson
In: Hampton, Monmouth, Stony Brook
Out: UMass
What it means: The CAA grows to eight teams in 2023, but it’s tough to argue that it improves. The league was in the play-in game this season, while the new teams add little to improve the league RPI. Holding onto Fairfield is a positive.

INDEPENDENTS​

2023 Lineup: Hartford, Merrimack
In: Hartford, Merrimack
Out: none
Looking ahead: Hartford drops to Division III in 2024.
What it means: Hartford didn’t field a team in 2022 and will compete as an independent in 2023, as will Merrimack, which is without a home, as the NEC dissolved this spring.

IVY LEAGUE​

2023 Lineup: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Yale
In: none
Out: none
What it means: The Ivy League has been the same eight schools since its formation in 1955.

METRO ATLANTIC ATHLETIC​

2023 Lineup: Canisius, LIU, Manhattan, Marist, Mount St. Mary’s, Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart, Siena, VMI, Wagner
In: LIU, Manhattan, Mount St. Mary’s, Sacred Heart, VMI, Wagner
Out: Monmouth, St. Bonaventure
What it means: The MAAC has gone through the most extensive changes of the remaining conferences. Two teams are gone, but five new ones join. Commissioner Rich Ensor has given three of the leftover NEC teams — LIU, Sacred Heart and Wagner — a lifeline for the next two years, a sort of make-peace offering for snagging Mount St. Mary’s as a full member. As a 10-team league with many familiar faces, this MAAC won’t feel too different from that of the past, just larger, and still a one-bid league.

NORTHEAST​

2023 Lineup: n/a (Merrimack goes independent)
In: none
Out: Bryant, Hobart, LIU, Mount St. Mary’s, Sacred Heart, Saint Joseph’s, Wagner
What it means: The NEC was the casualty of conference realignment in men’s lacrosse. Affiliate members Saint Joseph’s and Hobart were fulfilling the final years of their NEC contracts, and with the Atlantic 10 looking to sponsor the sport, it made sense to not renew with the NEC.
What the NEC likely didn’t anticipate is that both Bryant and Mount St. Mary’s would leave immediately and leave only four men’s lacrosse teams in the league. It’s a thought that’s unfathomable just a couple years ago when the NEC had 10 squads.
The plan is for the NEC to restart at some point. The schools that are in the MAAC are on two-year contracts, and Merrimack remains a men’s lacrosse independent for the time being. The NEC seems intent on adding another school, if not two, from Division II, by 2024. It can be assumed having a men’s lacrosse team will be a requirement.

PATRIOT LEAGUE​

2023 Lineup: Army West Point, Boston University, Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Lehigh, Loyola, Navy
In: none
Out: none
What it means: Like the Ivy League and Big Ten, the Patriot League is stable in its membership. Only American remains as the last holdout not offering men’s lacrosse. Expansion doesn’t appear on the horizon for the Eagles or the conference, something that hasn’t happened since 2013 when Loyola and Boston University joined.

SOUTHERN​

2023 Lineup: n/a
In: none
Out: Hampton, High Point, Jacksonville, Mercer, Richmond, VMI
What it means: The SoCon was the primary casualty of conference realignment when the CAA poached Hampton and the Atlantic 10 began its process to add a men’s league, bringing in full member Richmond and High Point as an affiliate. From there, VMI was able to find a home in the MAAC, while Jacksonville was already set with a primary home in the ASUN. It made sense for Mercer to also return to the ASUN for lacrosse. And thus, the SoCon era has concluded for now.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Does anyone know why the ACC doesn’t allow affiliate members, what the rationale is?

 

[Hoo's That]

Breaking Down the Division I Men's Conference Landscape

Now that the 2022 season is over, let's look ahead to the conference makeup of 2023.

www.usalaxmagazine.com

{snip}​

IVY LEAGUE​

2023 Lineup: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Yale
In: none
Out: none
What it means: The Ivy League has been the same eight schools since its formation in 1955.

{snip}​

Columbia only plays WLax.

Does anyone know why the ACC doesn’t allow affiliate members, what the rationale is?

Letting ND join just for Olympic sports was the first deviation from the ACC's "all or nothing" philosophy/policy. Personally, I think it's pretty stupid to operate that way. JHU folks say that there was zero chance they would have joined the ACC as an affiliate because MD wanted them in the B1G and, IIRC, asked them first. Now that the A10 has added MLax, there's zero chance for Richmond to join as an affiliate.

BC has a finance problem in trying to reinstate their team. They use WLax to keep their Title IX numbers up and their previous, devious AD constantly lied to supporters about reinstating the team. First he told them the cost would be $15M, and when they raised that, he told them it was now $25M.

Pitt just started WLax, so it may be hard under Title IX. Louisville has a WLax team and no Title IX room.

The best chance are the STEM schools. We can only hope that GA Tech gets its financial house in order (Their fans say, "Don't hold your breath."), or that NC State and/or VPI realize their mistake and restart their MLax teams. GA Tech's MCLA team has been to a bunch of Final 4s. Clemson is 50/50 M/F, so they could keep their present Title situation IX if they added both teams.

 

[outoftownie]

Clemson WLAX starts next season. Can’t see them adding a men’s team now that they’ve already added a women’s team.

 

[wgdsr]

Columbia only plays WLax.


Letting ND join just for Olympic sports was the first deviation from the ACC's "all or nothing" philosophy/policy. Personally, I think it's pretty stupid to operate that way. JHU folks say that there was zero chance they would have joined the ACC as an affiliate because MD wanted them in the B1G and, IIRC, asked them first. Now that the A10 has added MLax, there's zero chance for Richmond to join as an affiliate.

BC has a finance problem in trying to reinstate their team. They use WLax to keep their Title IX numbers up and their previous, devious AD constantly lied to supporters about reinstating the team. First he told them the cost would be $15M, and when they raised that, he told them it was now $25M.

Pitt just started WLax, so it may be hard under Title IX. Louisville has a WLax team and no Title IX room.

The best chance are the STEM schools. We can only hope that GA Tech gets its financial house in order (Their fans say, "Don't hold your breath."), or that NC State and/or VPI realize their mistake and restart their MLax teams. GA Tech's MCLA team has been to a bunch of Final 4s. Clemson is 50/50 M/F, so they could keep their present Title situation IX if they added both teams.

pitt and louisville are likely non-starters. the rest can make sense if:
- the AD really wants it (
- given the gap widening for now in the fball $$ arms race w sec and b1g and precedent... raises the $$ for the program. of course, these athletic depts are bringing in more and more $$ every year, but the incentive to throw some of that at a small non-revenue sport in the face of other p5's growing their stockpile faster is low.
- boo corrigan is the nc state AD. if he had his way and some of the above factors weren't working against it, he'd probably be exploring it. don't think it will happen.
- clemson is adding wlax i believe next year.

personally, i couldn't care less if they add another acc school. fine as is. be happier when they go back to play everyone once, have acc tourney, 5th team is dropped.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

personally, i couldn't care less if they add another acc school. fine as is. be happier when they go back to play everyone once, have acc tourney, 5th team is dropped.

Under the old system, everyone plays 4 conference games. Two teams get a 5th game, and two teams get a 5th and 6th game.

As long as the ACCT is nothing more than a fund raiser for the league, I'd rather see everyone get 6 conference games.

If we do go back to an ACCT, play the damn thing the last week of the season LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

 

[wgdsr]

Under the old system, everyone plays 4 conference games. Two teams get a 5th game, and two teams get a 5th and 6th game.

As long as the ACCT is nothing more than a fund raiser for the league, I'd rather see everyone get 6 conference games.

If we do go back to an ACCT, play the damn thing the last week of the season LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

i was telling anyone that would listen pre-season it was a bad idea. 5th team fends for themselves, maybe they get a lot of great ooc wins and schedule, maybe not.

does anyone know what the combined/average rpi of the b1g was in 2021? it was .500. because it has to be. in today's acc schedule, 2 of your teams are playing the worst team twice. not only that, but the other 2 teams have those 2 extra games tacked onto the opponents' opponents' record.

since it's been a 5 team league and no-aq, i believe 5 teams have qualified for the nc$$ exactly once, in 2021. when the b1g played a b1g only schedule and the ivies didn't play. the numbers don't work unless you absolutely blow out ooc schedule for the league. and in that instance, they would work for 4 game schedule + tourney also.

i won't be surprised if the conference struggles to get 2 or 3 teams in the next couple years.

 

[Zack80]

At the moment, it looks like UNC might struggle to make it into the top 20 RPI next season. Assuming they don't, it won't be a bonus for the ACC teams that have to play them twice.

 

[wgdsr]

At the moment, it looks like UNC might struggle to make it into the top 20 RPI next season. Assuming they don't, it won't be a bonus for the ACC teams that have to play them twice.

the only savior so far is the b1g allowing all 6 teams into their tourney for now. even still, it's probably not as bad as what the acc is doing.

 

[Zack80]

the only savior so far is the b1g allowing all 6 teams into their tourney for now. even still, it's probably not as bad as what the acc is doing.

The Big Ten would be wise to stop that, as it forces the #3 and #4 teams to play #5 and #6, which probably won't help them and could really hurt their at-large chances.

 

[Laxfanshutt]

Any guesses..lmao
They are teasing about it on there account.. also saw on there they were trying to get Tucker… lmao

 

[wvlax]

Any guesses..lmao
They are teasing about it on there account.. also saIntew on there they were trying to get Tucker… lmao

Whoa

 

[TexanMark]

Any guesses..lmao
They are teasing about it on there account.. also saw on there they were trying to get Tucker… lmao

Rumor was they offered lots of cash for Tucker.

I bet UM is adding Women's Lax and joining in '24

 

[UrbanaOrange]

Rumor was they offered lots of cash for Tucker.

I bet UM is adding Women's Lax and joining in '24

I could see that happening. That would give the state of Florida 5 D1 women's programs.

 

[Hoo's That]

Rumor was they offered lots of cash for Tucker.

I bet UM is adding Women's Lax and joining in '24

I could see that happening. That would give the state of Florida 5 D1 women's programs.

I agree. Women's team. Hopefully, FSU can get its numbers straight to start both teams, as long rumored.

 

[TexanMark]

I agree. Women's team. Hopefully, FSU can get its numbers straight to start both teams, as long rumored.

FSU could have a solid Men's Team...there are some VG Lax players in Florida. Also, I suspect they could recruit well from TX to New England.

They would get lots of home contests in February and March.