Let's say we are disappointing again this year

[IthacaMatt]

OK, just for conversation, let's say that SU goes 18-13 in the regular season, with 3 OOC losses and then goes 8-10 in the ACC, and we miss the tournament again.

On top of that, let's say when we are done that we have an underwhelming recruiting class coming in for 2018, and have to rely again on a handful of last-minute 5th year grad transfers. But Buddy is one of the recruits.

How much rope does Wildhack give to JB? Does anyone think he will give JB the full four years to see Buddy through the program, if we are no longer winning 20 games a year and have a hard time making the tournament? When is enough enough?

 

[Cuse House]

Nobody is kicking JB out the door, he will leave when he wants to.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nobody is kicking JB out the door, he will leave when he wants to.

They said that about Bobby Bowden, too, and we are well into Bobby Bowden territory now.

 

[Cuse House]

They said that about Bobby Bowden, too, and we are well into Bobby Bowden territory now.

Not quite yet, we still have a ways to go. If this trend continues for the next two seasons, then I would have to agree. Let's see how this recruiting cycle finishes and how our team does. I am not thrilled with the outcomes lately, but there is still time.

 

[jordoo]

OK, just for conversation, let's say that SU goes 18-13 in the regular season, with 3 OOC losses and then goes 8-10 in the ACC, and we miss the tournament again.

On top of that, let's say when we are done that we have an underwhelming recruiting class coming in for 2018, and have to rely again on a handful of last-minute 5th year grad transfers. But Buddy is one of the recruits.

How much rope does Wildhack give to JB? Does anyone think he will give JB the full four years to see Buddy through the program, if we are no longer winning 20 games a year and have a hard time making the tournament? When is enough enough?

I don't know with Wildhack because IMO Hop bailed him out big time by going to Washington. Then Wildhack basically punted by giving JB an extension.

 

[Cuse'91]

Nobody is kicking JB out the door, he will leave when he wants to.

Yes, because he has earned the right to squeeze every million/run this program into the ground.

 

[Cuse House]

Yes, because he has earned the right to squeeze every million/run this program into the ground.

Didn't say that, just don't think they will make him leave.

 

[Oráiste]

They said that about Bobby Bowden, too, and we are well into Bobby Bowden territory now.

"well into Bowden territory?"

I don't think so. Bowden hadn't had a national title contender in his last 9 seasons.

In the last 9 years, Boeheim has

• Been in the NCAA Tournament 7 times
• Earned 2 #1 seeds
• Earned a total of 5 protected seeds
• Been to the Sweet 16 5 times
• Been to the Elite 8 3 times
• Been to the Final Four twice

The last 3 seasons have been below our standards, but it is a long way from "Bowden territory"

I think Boeheim has at least 2 seasons worth of rope left, and if he gets a 25 win/Sweet 16 year in either of them, then he'll have even more

 

[Toga]

I'm hoping Buddy finds a great school elsewhere, mostly because of potential negative scenarios.

 

[Gotothehole]

"well into Bowden territory?"

I don't think so. Bowden hadn't had a national title contender in his last 9 seasons.

In the last 9 years, Boeheim has

• Been in the NCAA Tournament 7 times
• Earned 2 #1 seeds
• Earned a total of 5 protected seeds
• Been to the Sweet 16 5 times
• Been to the Elite 8 3 times
• Been to the Final Four twice

The last 3 seasons have been below our standards, but it is a long way from "Bowden territory"

I think Boeheim has at least 2 seasons worth of rope left, and if he gets a 25 win/Sweet 16 year in either of them, then he'll have even more

So you are saying he should stay until he is 80?

 

[Cusefan0307]

8-10 in the ACC with 6 games against BC, Pitt and Wake Forest would be totally unacceptable and I personally hope he would retire because I'd be sick of the product we put out there.

 

[Oráiste]

So you are saying he should stay until he is 80?

no; I'm saying three underperforming seasons - 1 of which included a run to the Final Four - doesn't put him in "Bowden territory"

 

[CuseTG2003]

JB's pretty much holding the program hostage so he can coach Buddy. Not cool what he did to Hop after everything Hop did for him.

 

[Briancuse]

JB's pretty much holding the program hostage so he can coach Buddy. Not cool what he did to Hop after everything Hop did for him.

What did he do to Hop? Because a Hof coach still wants to work, Hop did very well for himself.

 

[CuseTG2003]

What did he do to Hop? Because a Hof coach still wants to work, Hop did very well for himself.

Hop did do very well for himself, and I think he'll do very well at Washington. I just think JB owed it Hop to step aside as was planned. Hop was very loyal to JB, but JB didn't return the favor.

 

[Briancuse]

Hop did do very well for himself, and I think he'll do very well at Washington. I just think JB owed it Hop to step aside as was planned. Hop was very loyal to JB, but JB didn't return the favor.

No he really doesn't owe anyone anything, its his job, he has the right to work, we were in the Final Four a couple of years ago.

 

[CuseTG2003]

No he really doesn't owe anyone anything, its his job, he has the right to work, we were in the Final Four a couple of years ago.

I disagree. JB reneged on the agreed upon succession plan. And he did that after Hop basically ran the program during its most successful stretch ever.

 

[CousCuse]

Hop was half hearted last year and had one foot out the door all season. He is as much to blame for the team under performing as anyone, maybe more.

 

[edowd26]

Let's just say Joseph Stalin kills an entire generation of Russians... how long until Russia impeaches him?

Boeheim leaves when boeheim wants to leave.

 

[orangecuse]

No he really doesn't owe anyone anything, its his job, he has the right to work, we were in the Final Four a couple of years ago.

That FF run two years ago was miraculous, in which, I'll never forget. I was in Houston and stayed at the team hotel. But, in all candor, that run in the dance and to Houston was an outlier. We were a .500 ACC team and a 10 seed in the tournament. After losing to Pitt in the ACC tourney (for the 3rd time that year) I think most thought were on the outside looking in. We have been a mediocre .500 team in the ACC for the past 3 years, we have yet to win an ACC tournament game and if we miss the dance next year, it'll be 3 out of last 4. We have been missing on our primary target recruits. JB's contributions to the program have been immeasurable, however, with that said, imo, the program is at precarious crossroads.

 

[Briancuse]

That FF run two years ago was miraculous, in which, I'll never forget. I was in Houston and stayed at the team hotel. But, in all candor, that run in the dance and to Houston was an outlier. We were a .500 ACC team and a 10 seed in the tournament. After losing to Pitt in the ACC tourney (for the 3rd time that year) I think most thought were on the outside looking in. We have been a mediocre .500 team in the ACC for the past 3 years, we have yet to win an ACC tournament game and if we miss the dance next year, it'll be 3 out of last 4. We have been missing on our primary target recruits. JB's contributions to the program have been immeasurable, however, with that said, imo, the program is at precarious crossroads.

I agree it was a miracle, but it still happened, you have to give him credit for the run. I am worried about recruiting too, if in the next two years we don't make the ncaa tournament, and keep losing out on recruiting targets, then I think its time for him to stepdown, but until then he has earned the right to stay.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not quite yet, we still have a ways to go. If this trend continues for the next two seasons, then I would have to agree. Let's see how this recruiting cycle finishes and how our team does. I am not thrilled with the outcomes lately, but there is still time.

Not yet? We are 60-42 overall the last 3 seasons, a winning percentage of less than 59%, with only 1 NCAA tournament appearance. We are 28-26 in the ACC and have finished 7th, 9th and 8th the last 3 years. How much worse do we have to get?

 

[IthacaMatt]

"well into Bowden territory?"

I don't think so. Bowden hadn't had a national title contender in his last 9 seasons.

In the last 9 years, Boeheim has

• Been in the NCAA Tournament 7 times
• Earned 2 #1 seeds
• Earned a total of 5 protected seeds
• Been to the Sweet 16 5 times
• Been to the Elite 8 3 times
• Been to the Final Four twice

The last 3 seasons have been below our standards, but it is a long way from "Bowden territory"

I think Boeheim has at least 2 seasons worth of rope left, and if he gets a 25 win/Sweet 16 year in either of them, then he'll have even more

With Bowden, you can only look at his last five years to compare to JB's last 3, not Bowden's last nine. Before that, Bowden won 9-10-9-8 games in successive seasons. We're just comparing the slide.

In Bowden's last 5 seasons, he only won his ACC division twice (one of which was tied for first), and his overall record was 38-27 and only 21-19 in the ACC.

This season's roster for SU is the weakest we have seen in terms of returning talent + incoming recruits' rankings, since probably 2001, maybe since 1997. Maybe we have a year like Damone Brown and Allen Griffin put together in 2001, which was quite respectable, or maybe they tank and are an NIT team like the 1997 team.

At best, we are a borderline NCAA team. At worst, we might have a losing record and not even make the NIT. And that is not "the sky is falling", that's just an honest assessment of our talent compared to other teams, using commonly accepted criteria. That will be season 4 for JB, comparable to Bowden's last 5 years.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Hop was half hearted last year and had one foot out the door all season. He is as much to blame for the team under performing as anyone, maybe more.

"Maybe more"? Who was the head coach, again?

 

[CousCuse]

"Maybe more"? Who was the head coach, again?

He wasn't giving it his all. I'm really not blaming him as the situation became compromised, but he was checked out to some extent and it hurt the team. If you want to pile on Boeheim for the last 3 years when the NCAA tried to force him out with their unethical sanctions, then go ahead, kick him when he's down.