Let's say we are disappointing again this year

[IthacaMatt]

He wasn't giving it his all. I'm really not blaming him as the situation became compromised, but he was checked out to some extent and it hurt the team. If you want to pile on Boeheim for the last 3 years when the NCAA tried to force him out with their unethical sanctions, then go ahead, kick him when he's down.

He's 72 years old and he doesn't go out on the road to recruit very often. Unless he does a hell of a lot better job than he has these past few years, this next season is going to be "Stinker #4-in-a-row" and the incoming recruits so far for 2018 are non-existent, with nearly 40% of the top 100 are already committed.

 

[CousCuse]

He's 72 years old and he doesn't go out on the road to recruit very often. Unless he does a hell of a lot better job than he has these past few years, this next season is going to be "Stinker #4-in-a-row" and the incoming recruits so far for 2018 are non-existent, with nearly 40% of the top 100 are already committed.

The coaching staff will be much more cohesive with the addition of AG. This season will trend up significantly. Recruiting will then rebound.

 

[JazzNC]

The way I see it... The thing that seems to go unnoticed on this board by many is that we all want the team to do well. Even those of us that aren't particularly optimistic right now... we still want the same thing. We all want a good Syracuse team that is in position to make a serious run in the tournament.

I'm not really high on the class we have coming in, but I'm trying to be optimistic. For reasons I've posted countless times, I don't see the recruiting issue going away any time soon.

It's sad really because for all intents and purposes JB has earned the right to stay as long as he wants. We all know that the program is what it is because of JB. But that's what makes this so hard.

If you dare say it's time for fresh blood and that JB is (despite all he's done/given) holding the team back it's considered heresy.

I'm for doing whatever it takes to get us back to winning ways. If that can be done with with JB, great... but if this season ends in the NIT again, and we fail for the second consecutive year to land a top 100 recruit, or a top 20 class, then it's time to look at other options.

 

[dasher]

He's 72 years old and he doesn't go out on the road to recruit very often. Unless he does a hell of a lot better job than he has these past few years, this next season is going to be "Stinker #4-in-a-row" and the incoming recruits so far for 2018 are non-existent, with nearly 40% of the top 100 are already committed.

One of the stinkers in the past 4 resulted in a final four. No season that ends in the final four can ever be considered a stinker. The school has gone to a grand total of 6 in our history. And the season before that 4 also ended in a final four. We will see how we do this year. It's a tough competitive league. And for the most part, we are very young. One sr and he is a 5th year guy. And so far, a grand total of 1 kid that we wanted has gone to another school. Who cares about the other 39. We could have Jones if we wanted. But that old coach, saw that the kid that was ranked #17, wasn't all that good.

 

[Antiprodigy]

I'm for doing whatever it takes to get us back to winning ways. If that can be done with with JB, great... but if this season ends in the NIT again, and we fail for the second consecutive year to land a top 100 recruit, or a top 20 class, then it's time to look at other options.

Can you or anyone else, who is calling for JB's ouster guarantee that the coach who replaces JB will do any better?

You can't. And if you try too, you will look like a fool.

And how would it look to potential candidates that you chose to cut loose a coach who never had a losing season in 40+ years, because they just barely missed the NCAA tourney one year, and despite being in the final four just a couple years ago?

You know how you'd look? Like an idiot who won't be happy with anything except perfection. No coach would touch your program. No one goes into a situation where, with one wrong slip, they are fired.


The program is suffering under what many believe to be the worst sanctions in basketball ever leveled against a school by the NCAA. Most people on here underestimate how much damage these sanctions have done to the program, and it is likely that only with time will we truly recognize how much damage it has done.

Fans recognize that there are issues that the program is dealing with, and that some improvements need to be made, but if you are calling for JB's head, then all you really come across as is being whiny & pretentious with unrealistic views of the program.

 

[IthacaMatt]

One of the stinkers in the past 4 resulted in a final four. No season that ends in the final four can ever be considered a stinker. The school has gone to a grand total of 6 in our history.

The 1975 team made a Final Four, too. That doesn't mean that we should have kept Roy Danforth. The team's slide has been undeniable.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Can you or anyone else, who is calling for JB's ouster guarantee that the coach who replaces JB will do any better?

You can't. And if you try too, you will look like a fool.

And how would it look to potential candidates that you chose to cut loose a coach who never had a losing season in 40+ years, because they just barely missed the NCAA tourney one year, and despite being in the final four just a couple years ago?

You know how you'd look? Like an idiot who won't be happy with anything except perfection. No coach would touch your program. No one goes into a situation where, with one wrong slip, they are fired.
.

You can't guarantee anyone will do better. Everybody knows that. But JB is slipping from his historical standard. It's not even debatable. The proof is right there to see.

The question is - do we want SU to turn into a Wake Forest kind of program before we hire our next coach, when JB is in his late 70s and we've missed the NCAA every other year? Or do we want to change coaches while we still have a couple Final Fours in view in the rear view mirror? Which leaves the program in better shape for future success?

Even Gary Williams hung around too long at Maryland. After winning it all in 2o02, he completely missed the tournament 4 of his last 8 years, and then he was gone.

 

[SUFan44]

One of the stinkers in the past 4 resulted in a final four. No season that ends in the final four can ever be considered a stinker. The school has gone to a grand total of 6 in our history. And the season before that 4 also ended in a final four. We will see how we do this year. It's a tough competitive league. And for the most part, we are very young. One sr and he is a 5th year guy. And so far, a grand total of 1 kid that we wanted has gone to another school. Who cares about the other 39. We could have Jones if we wanted. But that old coach, saw that the kid that was ranked #17, wasn't all that good.

For this year, yes. Does last year's recruiting not count?

 

[JazzNC]

Can you or anyone else, who is calling for JB's ouster guarantee that the coach who replaces JB will do any better?

You can't. And if you try too, you will look like a fool.

And how would it look to potential candidates that you chose to cut loose a coach who never had a losing season in 40+ years, because they just barely missed the NCAA tourney one year, and despite being in the final four just a couple years ago?

You know how you'd look? Like an idiot who won't be happy with anything except perfection. No coach would touch your program. No one goes into a situation where, with one wrong slip, they are fired.


The program is suffering under what many believe to be the worst sanctions in basketball ever leveled against a school by the NCAA. Most people on here underestimate how much damage these sanctions have done to the program, and it is likely that only with time will we truly recognize how much damage it has done.

Fans recognize that there are issues that the program is dealing with, and that some improvements need to be made, but if you are calling for JB's head, then all you really come across as is being whiny & pretentious with unrealistic views of the program.

I think perhaps you should re-read my post. I didn't call for JB to be ousted. I said I'm all for doing whatever it takes to win, including retaining JB if he can turn it around.

Can I guarantee a successor would fare better? No I can't. Nor can you guarantee JB will turn it around against negative recruiting, his age, and kids feeling that the zone hurts their NBA stock.

In my opinion, the sanctions hurt, and were not warranted. But I don't think they were the reason we missed on our top recruits. We were in the running and didn't close because of JB's age, negative recruiting, zone defense, etc.

It sucks. I hear you. I don't want JB gone. What I want is a winning team, just like you.

 

[dasher]

The 1975 team made a Final Four, too. That doesn't mean that we should have kept Roy Danforth. The team's slide has been undeniable.

What? Are you under the impression that Roy Danforth was fired? He wasn't. He left for Tulane for more money. As for the team slide, last I looked, we have made two final fours in five years. That is undeniable. You guys are all assuming that this season is going to be a major disappointment. I have a idea. Why don't we wait to find out. Of course, anything the team does can be called a disappointment other than a national title.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Hop was half hearted last year and had one foot out the door all season.

That's because he saw the handwriting on the wall, and quite frankly from what we've been told, JB was not very subtle either. Basically overriding the recruits Hop wanted to pursue for the transition. If you waited 20 years to become the boss only to find out that 'nope you're not ever getting it, sorry'... I think you would've checked out as well.

 

[dasher]

That's because he saw the handwriting on the wall, and quite frankly from what we've been told, JB was not very subtle either. Basically overriding the recruits Hop wanted to pursue for the transition. If you waited 20 years to become the boss only to find out that 'nope you're not ever getting it, sorry'... I think you would've checked out as well.

Hop would have got the Head coaching job here. But at a price he really didn't want to pay. And quite frankly, shouldn't of had to.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The program is suffering under what many believe to be the worst sanctions in basketball ever leveled against a school by the NCAA. Most people on here underestimate how much damage these sanctions have done to the program, and it is likely that only with time will we truly recognize how much damage it has done.

Sanctions only cost us Huerter. Look at the bigger picture. Enough excuses.

 

[dasher]

Sanctions only cost us Huerter. Look at the bigger picture. Enough excuses.

Sanctions cost us a lot more than Hueter. They allowed other coaches to poison the waters about Syracuse. When other schools had 4 coaches on the road, we had two. We just couldn't build the relationships we needed to build.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And so far, a grand total of 1 kid that we wanted has gone to another school. Who cares about the other 39. .

Well, for the record we had about 8 offers out there for this class for at least a year who we didn't get a sniff from. Players like Cam Reddish, Naz Reid, Simi Shittu (so far ...), Jahvon Quinnerly, Louis King, and a couple others. But that's OK, you can pretend this is the first guy we've actually gone after in this class. Some of those who don't really follow this stuff will be fooled by you.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sanctions only cost us Huerter. Look at the bigger picture. Enough excuses.

Exactly. We've missed on about 8 kids in the last 3 classes we've brought in, and by that I mean we gave too many scholarships to Plan B kids who just weren't good enough to play here. With the sanctions, you can't have that many kids not be good enough to play. That's where the trouble has come from.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What? Are you under the impression that Roy Danforth was fired? He wasn't. He left for Tulane for more money. As for the team slide, last I looked, we have made two final fours in five years. That is undeniable. You guys are all assuming that this season is going to be a major disappointment. I have a idea. Why don't we wait to find out. Of course, anything the team does can be called a disappointment other than a national title.

No, you missed my point, which admittedly was a little subtle.

Just because Danforth made a Final Four, we were still a regional program back then, not a national power.

Just because we made a Final Four a couple years ago in kind of a flukey run doesn't mean that this hasn't turned into a mediocre ACC team that is expected to be a bubble team at this point, for the 4th year in a row.

Like the guy who wants to look at the last nine years' records of Boeheim and Bowden, it's not the last 9 years that makes the trend, it's the last 3 or 4 or 5, and those all look like 2 or 3 steps down from where we were earlier in the decade. The trend is down and the energy just isn't there to bring it back to where it was under the current administration, in my opinion.

 

[moqui]

you're going to end up eating your hat on this, Matt; the 18-19 squad is setting up to be very good. and if one or two of the young guys mature faster than that, maybe even by the end of this season

 

[CousCuse]

That's because he saw the handwriting on the wall, and quite frankly from what we've been told, JB was not very subtle either. Basically overriding the recruits Hop wanted to pursue for the transition. If you waited 20 years to become the boss only to find out that 'nope you're not ever getting it, sorry'... I think you would've checked out as well.

That has a lot of truth in it. You do however, have to give 100% if you are a professional.

 

[IthacaMatt]

you're going to end up eating your hat on this, Matt; the 18-19 squad is setting up to be very good. and if one or two of the young guys mature faster than that, maybe even by the end of this season

"Two Years From Now" we always look like a Final Four team.

The problem is that we keep losing a kid or two every year that we don't expect to go.

 

[DBCooper]

The 1975 team made a Final Four, too. That doesn't mean that we should have kept Roy Danforth. The team's slide has been undeniable.

Roy Danforth would clearly have been retained if he didn't chose to leave for Tulane. Actually, people at the time appreciated his leadership in bringing an underdog team to the Final Four. JB has been so good for so long that it is easy for people to dismiss the accomplishment as relatively insignificant.

 

[gmoney44]

Yes, because he has earned the right to squeeze every million/run this program into the ground.

"Squeeze every million" SU has saved a fortune over the years because they get JB on the cheap.

 

[Sherman20]

That's because he saw the handwriting on the wall, and quite frankly from what we've been told, JB was not very subtle either. Basically overriding the recruits Hop wanted to pursue for the transition. If you waited 20 years to become the boss only to find out that 'nope you're not ever getting it, sorry'... I think you would've checked out as well.

Off topic, but I'm curious: was one of those recruits Isaiah Washington? Anyone else you've heard about?

 

[orangecuse]

Exactly. We've missed on about 8 kids in the last 3 classes we've brought in, and by that I mean we gave too many scholarships to Plan B kids who just weren't good enough to play here. With the sanctions, you can't have that many kids not be good enough to play. That's where the trouble has come from.

100% accurate! I find it interesting that so many simply dismiss this fact and default to the sanctions are killing us bullsh!t. Had we landed just a few of those huge misses, I doubt anyone would be talking about the sanctions. Bottom line is that even with those sanctions, we still had sufficient schollies to give and didn't get a one of those guys. That by far is the decisive factor for our mediocrity.

Most here highly respect Jay Bilas, as do I. I vividly recall how he felt the sanctions were total bs (as I and most) but that since JB typically only plays 7 guys, it shouldn't really be a significant factor. Again, the reason why it is such a factor is just as you eluded. We swung and missed on the 'Show' guys and in return got AA Binghamton players to fill out our roster, and, at critical positions.

 

[moqui]

Can you or anyone else, who is calling for JB's ouster guarantee that the coach who replaces JB will do any better?

You can't. And if you try too, you will look like a fool.

And how would it look to potential candidates that you chose to cut loose a coach who never had a losing season in 40+ years, because they just barely missed the NCAA tourney one year, and despite being in the final four just a couple years ago?

You know how you'd look? Like an idiot who won't be happy with anything except perfection. No coach would touch your program. No one goes into a situation where, with one wrong slip, they are fired.


The program is suffering under what many believe to be the worst sanctions in basketball ever leveled against a school by the NCAA. Most people on here underestimate how much damage these sanctions have done to the program, and it is likely that only with time will we truly recognize how much damage it has done.

Fans recognize that there are issues that the program is dealing with, and that some improvements need to be made, but if you are calling for JB's head, then all you really come across as is being whiny & pretentious with unrealistic views of the program.

bravura post

only thing I'd add is that, in addition to the whiny, pretentious and unrealistic, there is a coterie of Hopkins loyalists who are determined to burn the corps & salt the fields behind him