Let's say we are disappointing again this year

[orangecuse]

bravura post

only thing I'd add is that, in addition to the whiny, pretentious and unrealistic, there is a coterie of Hopkins loyalists who are determined to burn the corps & salt the fields behind him

Apparently your reading comprehension is off as well. As JazzNC responded in his retort, go revisit the post, maybe you'll ascertain a clearer understanding of its context.

 

[dasher]

Well, for the record we had about 8 offers out there for this class for at least a year who we didn't get a sniff from. Players like Cam Reddish, Naz Reid, Simi Shittu (so far ...), Jahvon Quinnerly, Louis King, and a couple others. But that's OK, you can pretend this is the first guy we've actually gone after in this class. Some of those who don't really follow this stuff will be fooled by you.

Oh my God. What a ridiculous, ill informed post. yeah, we offered the best kids in the country. Like everyone else. But we didn't make them a priority because we knew we couldn't get them. No chance. I'm sure we probably offered lebron when he was a high school sr.

 

[dasher]

100% accurate! I find it interesting that so many simply dismiss this fact and default to the sanctions are killing us bullsh!t. Had we landed just a few of those huge misses, I doubt anyone would be talking about the sanctions. Bottom line is that even with those sanctions, we still had sufficient schollies to give and didn't get a one of those guys. That by far is the decisive factor for our mediocrity.

Most here highly respect Jay Bilas, as do I. I vividly recall how he felt the sanctions were total bs (as I and most) but that since JB typically only plays 7 guys, it shouldn't really be a significant factor. Again, the reason why it is such a factor is just as you eluded. We swung and missed on the 'Show' guys and in return got AA Binghamton players to fill out our roster, and, at critical positions.

One of the reasons we missed on kids was because we were on sanctions. It happened the last time we were on sanctions. You must not have been around back in the early 90's. Heard the same stuff then. and none of that is to say that I disagree that we have issues. Or at least have had them. We have a 72 year old coach. That hurts. I brought this up a while back that at 61, I don't have the energy that I once did and I don't believe JB does either. Plus, there was dysfunction in our basketball program over the last few years. For Hopkins to leave when he did and the way he did, that says a lot. Throw in that the ACC top to bottom, mainly bottom, is very hard. Going on the road in this conference is rough. it's rough in any league but this one is really tough. We don't get the break of playing teams off of their campus like we did in the Big East.

 

[IthacaMatt]

bravura post

only thing I'd add is that, in addition to the whiny, pretentious and unrealistic, there is a coterie of Hopkins loyalists who are determined to burn the corps & salt the fields behind him

Hey, let's keep it real here. If the next guy can win only 60% of his games, that will beat the last 3 seasons, and likely this upom

Oh my God. What a ridiculous, ill informed post. yeah, we offered the best kids in the country. Like everyone else. But we didn't make them a priority because we knew we couldn't get them. No chance. I'm sure we probably offered lebron when he was a high school sr.

"We didn't make them a priority"?? Oh, we put out offers to these elite guys and then didn't recruit any other guys for 15-18 months? Is that your contention? Well then where were the other offers to the players we thought we COULD get prior to Swider? You know, the early signing period is only 4 months away, and apparently your onset of senility has made you forget that we often get 1 or 2 of those early guys. That's why we get on them early, before they blew up. Like Randolph, Green, Bamba, Naz Reid and so many other guys in the last class. And we got none of them this time. Stop with the bullshit. We wanted to land a couple of those guys to anchor and kick start the rest of the class. That's how recruiting works. But when Mike knew he wasn't getting the gig, he stopped caring, and the old guy hasn't shown he can get back into the game fast enough.

 

[orangecuse]

One of the reasons we missed on kids was because we were on sanctions. It happened the last time we were on sanctions. You must not have been around back in the early 90's. Heard the same stuff then. and none of that is to say that I disagree that we have issues. Or at least have had them. We have a 72 year old coach. That hurts. I brought this up a while back that at 61, I don't have the energy that I once did and I don't believe JB does either. Plus, there was dysfunction in our basketball program over the last few years. For Hopkins to leave when he did and the way he did, that says a lot. Throw in that the ACC top to bottom, mainly bottom, is very hard. Going on the road in this conference is rough. it's rough in any league but this one is really tough. We don't get the break of playing teams off of their campus like we did in the Big East.

For the record, I've been around, even in the Hair Nation Rockin 80's! Please, spare with the condescending "You must not have been around back in the early 90's" insinuating that your view has more weight just because you may have been around longer, etc. Your presumption is incorrect. I certainly respect your opinion, your knowledge and contribution, however, respectfully, opinions do vary.

FWIW, I have some people that are very close to the program as well, I had hinted of same in that Hop to UW thread...I had a family member yesterday at a significant SU booster offspring's Wedding/Reception...members of the SU staff were there...

 

[Todoubled23]

Consider me woo'd to the max!

 

[Eagles20]

Hey, let's keep it real here. If the next guy can win only 60% of his games, that will beat the last 3 seasons, and likely this upom




"We didn't make them a priority"?? Oh, we put out offers to these elite guys and then didn't recruit any other guys for 15-18 months? Is that your contention? Well then where were the other offers to the players we thought we COULD get prior to Swider? You know, the early signing period is only 4 months away, and apparently your onset of senility has made you forget that we often get 1 or 2 of those early guys. That's why we get on them early, before they blew up. Like Randolph, Green, Bamba, Naz Reid and so many other guys in the last class. And we got none of them this time. Stop with the bullshit. We wanted to land a couple of those guys to anchor and kick start the rest of the class. That's how recruiting works. But when Mike knew he wasn't getting the gig, he stopped caring, and the old guy hasn't shown he can get back into the game fast enough.

Since when did we recruit and gets kids like that, we rarely would get top 20 kids. Maybe I'm misremembering the Syracuse recruiting hay days of the past. Or the Syracuse days when we were consistently ranked in the top 10. We had two years in a row where we stayed in the top 10 but outside that don't remember being a powerhouse. All of a sudden we are a blue blood to people. Can't wait to we hire anther coach and we recruit better and win national championships

 

[dasher]

Hey, let's keep it real here. If the next guy can win only 60% of his games, that will beat the last 3 seasons, and likely this upom




"We didn't make them a priority"?? Oh, we put out offers to these elite guys and then didn't recruit any other guys for 15-18 months? Is that your contention? Well then where were the other offers to the players we thought we COULD get prior to Swider? You know, the early signing period is only 4 months away, and apparently your onset of senility has made you forget that we often get 1 or 2 of those early guys. That's why we get on them early, before they blew up. Like Randolph, Green, Bamba, Naz Reid and so many other guys in the last class. And we got none of them this time. Stop with the bullshit. We wanted to land a couple of those guys to anchor and kick start the rest of the class. That's how recruiting works. But when Mike knew he wasn't getting the gig, he stopped caring, and the old guy hasn't shown he can get back into the game fast enough.

lol Insulting someone doesn't make your argument any stronger. It makes you look like you are, a child.

 

[Footey04]

lol Insulting someone doesn't make your argument any stronger. It makes you look like you are, a child.

He apparently has no clue dasher I can't even respond to his post lol

 

[dasher]

He apparently has no clue dasher I can't even respond to his post lol

He has no idea how we recruit. It sucks that we missed out on Green and tucker. But that was a result of Kentucky and Duke missing out on their top target. If they did, suddenly our recruiting would look a lot better. We still got good players.

 

[Footey04]

He has no idea how we recruit. It sucks that we missed out on Green and tucker. But that was a result of Kentucky and Duke missing out on their top target. If they did, suddenly our recruiting would look a lot better. We still got good players.

We're sure did and sometimes in recruiting you just lose, people can't seem to understand it lol

 

[JazzNC]

We're sure did and sometimes in recruiting you just lose, people can't seem to understand it lol

I get what you are saying. Sometimes you swing and miss, despite coming really really close. Perhaps people wouldn't be so up in arms over losing Green and Tucker if we hadn't also lost on the other ten top 100 recruits we offered? We finished 0/12 on top 100 recruits.

 

[dasher]

I get what you are saying. Sometimes you swing and miss, despite coming really really close. Perhaps people wouldn't be so up in arms over losing Green and Tucker if we hadn't also lost on the other ten top 100 recruits we offered? We finished 0/12 on top 100 recruits.

Why not say 0 for 100? Just because we threw an offer out, doesn't mean we were trying. We offered some kids we knew we didn't have a shot at. We didn't pursue them because we knew we had no shot. I'm not saying that things are rosy. They aren't. We struck out on our main targets. That isn't good and needs to change. But the idea that we were 0-12 is silly. We were never in the game for most of those kids. Also, Jb prefers his take on recruits that the rating services. The perfect example is Jones. He would have committed to us before we got done with the offer and he was rated at #17 when we passed.

 

[JazzNC]

One of the reasons we missed on kids was because we were on sanctions. It happened the last time we were on sanctions. You must not have been around back in the early 90's. Heard the same stuff then. and none of that is to say that I disagree that we have issues. Or at least have had them. We have a 72 year old coach. That hurts. I brought this up a while back that at 61, I don't have the energy that I once did and I don't believe JB does either. Plus, there was dysfunction in our basketball program over the last few years. For Hopkins to leave when he did and the way he did, that says a lot. Throw in that the ACC top to bottom, mainly bottom, is very hard. Going on the road in this conference is rough. it's rough in any league but this one is really tough. We don't get the break of playing teams off of their campus like we did in the Big East.

Just playing devils advocate...

Do you think it's fair to argue that the sanctions prevented us from having time to scout and recruit when JB and MH were off coaching Team USA?

To me, it just doesn't seem fair to say that the sanctions prevented us from scouting and recruiting but dividing our resources and time by coaching another team did not?

I think the issue is very very complicated. I've read multiple views and posts. I'm not dismissing the impact of the sanctions, but in my opinion it does seem a bit naive to think that was the biggest factor.

Anyhow, you're ok. I respect your input. I'm just trying to get people to see it's not so black and white. We didn't miss these recruits because of sanctions only, any more than we didn't lose them entirely because of JB's age or zone reliance.

It's a very complicated issue, and I think we all want the same thing, a winning team. Anyhow, that's my two cents. Happy 4th!

 

[dasher]

For the record, I've been around, even in the Hair Nation Rockin 80's! Please, spare with the condescending "You must not have been around back in the early 90's" insinuating that your view has more weight just because you may have been around longer, etc. Your presumption is incorrect. I certainly respect your opinion, your knowledge and contribution, however, respectfully, opinions do vary.

FWIW, I have some people that are very close to the program as well, I had hinted of same in that Hop to UW thread...I had a family member yesterday at a significant SU booster offspring's Wedding/Reception...members of the SU staff were there...

I wasn't insinuating that. I was stating that. When you have been around the block with this team for 45 years, it does give you a perspective on things that you don't get when you are around for say 10 years. If you were around in the 80's, than you remember how we were hurt by the sanctions the last time. It knocked the crap out of us. Donyall Marshall and the kid from Mich were two kids right off the top of my head we lost because of those sanctions. The difference this time is that the coach is 72. Not 47. And that is a big difference I will grant you.

 

[dasher]

Just playing devils advocate...

Do you think it's fair to argue that the sanctions prevented us from having time to scout and recruit when JB and MH were off coaching Team USA?

To me, it just doesn't seem fair to say that the sanctions prevented us from scouting and recruiting but dividing our resources and time by coaching another team did not?

I think the issue is very very complicated. I've read multiple views and posts. I'm not dismissing the impact of the sanctions, but in my opinion it does seem a bit naive to think that was the biggest factor.

Anyhow, you're ok. I respect your input. I'm just trying to get people to see it's not so black and white. We didn't miss these recruits because of sanctions only, any more than we didn't lose them entirely because of JB's age or zone reliance.

It's a very complicated issue, and I think we all want the same thing, a winning team. Anyhow, that's my two cents. Happy 4th!

I think having both JB and hop away at the pics was criminal. And at a time of sanctions, even more so. I just pointed out how recruiting went during the last period of sanctions. The sanctions did what the NCAA wanted them to do. having only two coaches on the road and losing ships hurts. They hurt a lot. I think the coaches age is a killer as well. On two fronts. One, we can't guarantee how long he can coach and two, he can't have the energy that younger coaches have. I think the zone hurts as well. at least with some kids. and that alone makes it tougher for us. One thing I will give the guy though, he does seem to scramble well. Two years in a row, we picked up kids late that help. I believe that Marek and Brissett will be very good players here.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Why not say 0 for 100? Just because we threw an offer out, doesn't mean we were trying. We offered some kids we knew we didn't have a shot at. We didn't pursue them because we knew we had no shot. I'm not saying that things are rosy. They aren't. We struck out on our main targets. That isn't good and needs to change. But the idea that we were 0-12 is silly. We were never in the game for most of those kids. Also, Jb prefers his take on recruits that the rating services. The perfect example is Jones. He would have committed to us before we got done with the offer and he was rated at #17 when we passed.

Might have to go back to jones with no Swider now because Louis King ain't happening. Don't see what our other options are.

 

[dasher]

Might have to go back to jones with no Swider now because Louis King ain't happening. Don't see what our other options are.

I don't see us going back to Jones. JB wasn't impressed.

 

[JazzNC]

Why not say 0 for 100? Just because we threw an offer out, doesn't mean we were trying. We offered some kids we knew we didn't have a shot at. We didn't pursue them because we knew we had no shot. I'm not saying that things are rosy. They aren't. We struck out on our main targets. That isn't good and needs to change. But the idea that we were 0-12 is silly. We were never in the game for most of those kids. Also, Jb prefers his take on recruits that the rating services. The perfect example is Jones. He would have committed to us before we got done with the offer and he was rated at #17 when we passed.

The same could be said for other schools too though. Many teams offer recruits scholarships without pursuing them too hard, but they still have better closing percentages than 0%. Without using some form of statistics, even though they're admittedly not perfect, conversation is merely speculative. Stats are not imperfect but they do have some value, and do show trends.

 

[jordoo]

There is a downward trend but we are also a couple players away from this board saying recruiting is great! Had we gotten Green and Randolf people would be gaga over the class of Green, Randolf, Brissett, Sidibie and whoever else we added. I think most peoples issue with Green was that we allowed him to play us until our other legitimate PG options were no longer available. The Randolf situation was an anomaly that you just don't see in recruiting.

 

[dasher]

There is a downward trend but we are also a couple players away from this board saying recruiting is great! Had we gotten Green and Randolf people would be gaga over the class of Green, Randolf, Brissett, Sidibie and whoever else we added. I think most peoples issue with Green was that we allowed him to play us until our other legitimate PG options were no longer available. The Randolf situation was an anomaly that you just don't see in recruiting.

Same with Tucker.

 

[dasher]

The same could be said for other schools too though. Many teams offer recruits scholarships without pursuing them too hard, but they still have better closing percentages than 0%. Without using some form of statistics, even though they're admittedly not perfect, conversation is merely speculative. Stats are not imperfect but they do have some value, and do show trends.

first, you and I have no idea what the board looked like for Syracuse. they don't, and shouldn't, pick up a copy of espn top 100 and say these are the kids we want. They evaluate kids that they want and go from there. Brissett and Marek were not going to be ranked in any top 100 because of where they lived. I don't predict much but I will predict that we will be happy we got these two kids. I don't mean to insinuate that marek was targeted by the staff. I think we got very lucky with him.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Hop would have got the Head coaching job here. But at a price he really didn't want to pay. And quite frankly, shouldn't of had to.

JB knew what he was doing... he could've taken the high road and graciously accommodated the transition without making Hop feel bad about anything. I disagree that JB doesn't owe anyone anything. Hop was the man behind the curtain for many years including the second golden era. He made it possible for JB to transition to a CEO role. If anyone should feel bad it's JB for the way he took Hop for granted.

My sister in law waited 8 years for her boyfriend to propose. Every year he teased that it would be the next holiday, the next big milestone, etc. She was patient and loyal, relocated for his job, etc. But she finally realized it was never going to happen. Privately she was crushed and emotionally checked out. Not long after she packed her bags for the next flight back home.

 

[JazzNC]

There is a downward trend but we are also a couple players away from this board saying recruiting is great! Had we gotten Green and Randolf people would be gaga over the class of Green, Randolf, Brissett, Sidibie and whoever else we added. I think most peoples issue with Green was that we allowed him to play us until our other legitimate PG options were no longer available. The Randolf situation was an anomaly that you just don't see in recruiting.

I agree. But unfortunately it's kind of coulda woulda shoulda... we did miss those guys. We lost Swider, and about 40% of the top 100 in 2018 are now committed.

 

[dasher]

JB knew what he was doing... he could've taken the high road and graciously accommodated the transition without making Hop feel bad about anything. I disagree that JB doesn't owe anyone anything. Hop was the man behind the curtain for many years including the second golden era. He made it possible for JB to transition to a CEO role. If anyone should feel bad it's JB for the way he took Hop for granted.

My sister in law waited 8 years for her boyfriend to propose. Every year he teased that it would be the next holiday, the next big milestone, etc. She was patient and loyal, relocated for his job, etc. But she finally realized it was never going to happen. Privately she was crushed and emotionally checked out. Not long after she packed her bags for the next flight back home.

I don't disagree with one word of that. I don't know why you responded to me with that post. I agree. Hop was not treated well at the end. Jb didn't treat him the way a coach in waiting (with the wait being just one more year) should have been treated.