Looks like Coach was right

[AZOrange]

Nobody knows where Grant would have gone next year but I can say with almost no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be in the top 10 next year. One jr, one sr. (Payton and McDermott) went in the lottery this year, 1 sr. year 2013, and 3 jr in 2012. So out of the last 32 lottery picks 6 players have been a jr. or older, that doesn't bode well for staying in school and pushing yourself into the lottery.

im not sure the analysis is that simple. Players are not always equivalent to their year. Grant was really a playing frosh, while Zeller was more a playing soph. If college didn't matter and players can't improve they would all do what exum did.

 

[two3zone]

im not sure the analysis is that simple. Players are not always equivalent to their year. Grant was really a playing frosh, while Zeller was more a playing soph. If college didn't matter and players can't improve they would all do what exum did.

I didn't say they couldn't improve, never said that. Usually they do improve but while improving they're a year older and continuous flaws show through. I don't think Grant would have done much better this year, I honestly don't think he'll ever develop a jumper like most around here think he will. His shot is ugly, REAL ugly. Tell me how it gets better by staying in school, practicing an offense constantly that will never ever be based around his mid range game. So he's a year older, hasn't developed a shot, where does he go next year? You know as well as I do that JB wants to win, centering that around Grant's perimeter game isn't going to win a lot of games.

I honestly thought Grant would have gone in the first round based on his athleticism alone, it got Gordon as the #4 pick. He fell, fortunatly he fell to a team where he has a legit chance to make and play. He has a better chance at working on his game with trainers and coaches, developing a shot and doing EVERYTHING he can for his game, not for a National Championship contender who is obviously going to be looking out for the team, not Grant's draft status. Take away the books, take away the Orange and Grant's got a very very large amount of time to work on his game and possibly stick in the league for awhile. Not saying he couldn't have done that next year, but I do think he has a better chance to succeed at this point than he does if he stays another year.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Donte Greene gets destroyed here, but I will say he always seemed to be a stand up guy, which is a lot more than I can say for a certain star for the New York Knicks who has people lined up around the corner to apologize for him.

This drives me insane. What has Melo done that should be apologized for. He is a great offensive player on a team that has no one else making real contributions. He doesn't talk crap about his teammates, he isn't fat and out of shape. He hasn't be arrested, he hasn't beaten his wife. He hasn't done anything in the last decade that people should be explaining away. Has he commiting a crime I don't know about. He wanted the money so the Knicks traded people away to get him. I guess if you are a Knicks fan you can blame him for not taking 20% less money but I typically don't talk crap about people who make the decision to make as much money as possible in their profession. I know a banker the other day I'm friends with and left his job and makes like 30k more now but the bank he left he really liked and enjoyed the people he worked with. I didn't call him a traitor but that's just me. I also usually blame GM's for trading players and not players included in the deals.

 

[two3zone]

This drives me insane. What has Melo done that should be apologized for. He is a great offensive player on a team that has no one else making real contributions. He doesn't talk crap about his teammates, he isn't fat and out of shape. He hasn't be arrested, he hasn't beaten his wife. He hasn't done anything in the last decade that people should be explaining away. Has he commiting a crime I don't know about. He wanted the money so the Knicks traded people away to get him. I guess if you are a Knicks fan you can blame him for not taking 20% less money but I typically don't talk crap about people who make the decision to make as much money as possible in their profession. I know a banker the other day I'm friends with and left his job and makes like 30k more now but the bank he left he really liked and enjoyed the people he worked with. I didn't call him a traitor but that's just me. I also usually blame GM's for trading players and not players included in the deals.

Well, yeah.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/carmelo-anthony-mug-shot

 

[two3zone]

Well, yeah.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/carmelo-anthony-mug-shot

And this one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1906525

 

[HOFCeluck]

And stop snitching.

And Mardy Collins.

But as I said, this was all early in his career. His maturity has improved greatly to his credit.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Well, yeah.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/carmelo-anthony-mug-shot

My apoligizes I forgot about that since it was like 6 years ago. I believe around that time he also got a ticket for driving 60 in a 45. What a terrible person. I don't know anyone who has had a few drinks and driven home. I want to take this moment to apologize for him since I'm a syracuse basketball fan.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I live in Washington state I don't recognize your weed claim as a crime. It's legal here. I was unaware being on a rap song was a crime. Must not be a big fan of the first amendment.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Thanks for helping make my point for me.

 

[wadegarrett]

CJ probably wouldn't have been drafted last year either.

He had a much better chance of getting drafted last year. The draft was much weaker and his flaws were exposed this year after being the focal point in the offense. If I remember correctly, he was a projected first rounder in most mock drafts that expected him to leave.

 

[tbonezone]

donte green started every game as a frosh and led the team in scoring. junior jerami was just acc HM .
ergo ipso the comparison here not really relevant. one player had reached his reasonable potential.

 

[SUfanNC]

Sigh.
Not directly referring to the OP, but the "conventional wisdom" and requisite butt-hurt on this forum re; Donte Greene, is truly amazing to behold.
Again, Donte made the best decision FOR HIM, made millions of dollars, fulfilled his dream, and would likely still be on an NBA roster if not for a timely injury. The man was drafted 28th- and if any one of the arm-chair "experts" on this board bothered to ask if he'd do anything differently, his answer would undoubtedly be "HELL NO"!
Can we not become ESPN-like with our perspectives, constantly repeating something until its accepted to be true by consensus?
Donte made the right decision. Let it go, already! :bang:

I'm not really on board with this. You say he made the best decision for him but how can you say that? He made a decision that he thought was the best for him but that doesn't make it the best decision. He defiantly made money but that isn't really part of the argument. There is no telling what could have happened if he stayed. He may have developed his game and been a high draft pick. He may not only time would have told. Truth of the matter is there is not really a way to tell if he made the best decision.

I don't care that he left and it never bothered me. I wish the best for all the players here and hope they do well in the NBA but if you think that someone with JB's experience and knowledge tells some of these kids to stay because they could use more development than I would imagine that they should listen closely.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm not really on board with this. You say he made the best decision for him but how can you say that? He made a decision that he thought was the best for him but that doesn't make it the best decision. He defiantly made money but that isn't really part of the argument. There is no telling what could have happened if he stayed. He may have developed his game and been a high draft pick. He may not only time would have told. Truth of the matter is there is not really a way to tell if he made the best decision.

I don't care that he left and it never bothered me. I wish the best for all the players here and hope they do well in the NBA but if you think that someone with JB's experience and knowledge tells some of these kids to stay because they could use more development than I would imagine that they should listen closely.

I think I defer to the guy making the decision rather than a guy on a message board who doesn't know him, who's upset that his favorite team is going to take a hit, in terms of wether or not he's making the best decision for himself (not taking a shot a you specifically).

My understanding has always been that there were certain personal issues that compelled Donte to enter the draft.

 

[two3zone]

I live in Washington state I don't recognize your weed claim as a crime. It's legal here. I was unaware being on a rap song was a crime. Must not be a big fan of the first amendment.

I'm actually a strict libertarian. You answered why Melo was praised and Greene was piled on and mentioned that Melo was never arrested. I just posted the info that's all.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I always get a chuckle about how salty some get when they get trounced in a debate and have backed themselves into a corner, but continue to repeat the same points louder and louder to make their point.

Adios.

Salty? Not at all, son. The fact that you can't accept someone else's CHOICE to do something THEY want to do, and numbers be damned, says so much more about you than about that person.
Get over yourself- your POV is not the only one that counts. You keep coming back to the same "beside-the-point" garbage, and can't quite grasp why no one really gives a 'k.
Deal w/ the fact that Donte, Tyler, et al- have a different criteria to their decisions- one which some of us can recognize, but you in your blind, myopic stubbornness, simply cannot grasp. Sad.Oh Lord

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm sure we'd be equally understanding if Donte was busted for possession in his rookie year.

 

[SUfanNC]

I think I defer to the guy making the decision rather than a guy on a message board who doesn't know him, who's upset that his favorite team is going to take a hit, in terms of wether or not he's making the best decision for himself (not taking a shot a you specifically).

My understanding has always been that there were certain personal issues that compelled Donte to enter the draft.

Look I totally understand that view point. My point is JB, who I would imagine knows the situation tells you it is in your best interest to stay than I would imagine he has seen enough to know. Just because it's Dante or Ennis or whoever decision doesn't mean they will make the best choice.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Look I totally understand that view point. My point is JB, who I would imagine knows the situation tells you it is in your best interest to stay than I would imagine he has seen enough to know. Just because it's Dante or Ennis or whoever decision doesn't mean they will make the best choice.

Yes. From a pure basketball standpoint JB is probably right.

But who knows with so me guys what issues they have in their personal lives that may make them declare earlier than they should. A lot of it I'm sure as fans we are not privy to.

 

[RF2044]

Salty? Not at all, son. The fact that you can't accept someone else's CHOICE to do something THEY want to do, and numbers be damned, says so much more about you than about that person.
Get over yourself- your POV is not the only one that counts. You keep coming back to the same "beside-the-point" garbage, and can't quite grasp why no one really gives a 'k.
Deal w/ the fact that Donte, Tyler, et al- have a different criteria to their decisions- one which some of us can recognize, but you in your blind, myopic stubbornness, simply cannot grasp. Sad.Oh Lord

This doesn't have anything to do with the kumbaya crap you're desperately clinging to about the agency of free choice. He made a choice, but the consequence of that choice didn't work out in his favor, and now his NBA career has gotten off on the wrong foot. That isn't my POV--that's pretty much the general consensus from everyone who understands that last night didn't go well for Grant, son.

Well, everyone except for you, apparently. What's REALLY sad is how you keep beating the drum about the sanctity of individual opinions while simultaneously talking out of the other side of your mouth and attacking "you people" for expressing a different point of view than yours. The hypocrisy is unintentionally hysterical, and makes me laugh!

 

[SUfanNC]

Yes. From a pure basketball standpoint JB is probably right.

But who knows with so me guys what issues they have in their personal lives that may make them declare earlier than they should. A lot of it I'm sure as fans we are not privy to.

I think coach would be fully aware of what is going on and what it driving the decision.

 

[SUfanNC]

By the way I agree with us as fans not knowing everything that goes on

 

[tbonezone]

hey if grant sticks with ANYBODY i'll eat the fattest crow. but if he joins fab with the long island lobster claws and wastes away in D league i hope you all pushers have the stones to say BIG MISTAKE!

 

[DoctorBombay]

This doesn't have anything to do with the kumbaya crap you're desperately clinging to about the agency of free choice. He made a choice, but the consequence of that choice didn't work out in his favor, and now his NBA career has gotten off on the wrong foot. That isn't my POV--that's pretty much the general consensus from everyone who understands that last night didn't go well for Grant, son.

Well, everyone except for you, apparently. What's REALLY sad is how you keep beating the drum about the sanctity of individual opinions while simultaneously talking out of the other side of your mouth and attacking "you people" for expressing a different point of view than yours. The hypocrisy is unintentionally hysterical, and makes me laugh!

At this point you're just babbling, youngster. Your inability to grasp the basic concepts being presented are exposing you.
Keep blithering away, son- you're your own worst enemy. :crazy::blah:

 

[RF2044]

At this point you're just babbling, youngster. Your inability to grasp the basic concepts being presented are exposing you.
Keep blithering away, son- you're your own worst enemy. :crazy::blah:

That's funny--because it seems like the vast majority of posters are more aligned with my perspective on this subject. I don't see anyone expressing agreement with your asinine take.

If I were interested in continuing a pointless debate --which I'm not...
Or respected you as a poster--which I don't...
Or remotely gave a flying sh-t about what you think about me--which I most certainly do NOT...
Or if you seemed capable of carrying on an intelligent, civil discussion--which you've sadly proven to be congenitally incapable of...

...then perhaps I'd be interested in continuing to waste time debating with someone so clearly narrow minded. Instead, i'm going to go have a few drinks, spend some QT with my wife, and then go discuss this topic in multiple other threads where there's posters that--unlike you--seem to know what they're talking about and don't live in fantasy land.

 

[AZOrange]

Harvey and jerami blew it plain and simple.