Luke Carney in the portal

[Chip]

If anything, Fran/Nixon should have ignored the critics and just kept Rickie in.

In hindsight, this probably would have been best. But he was getting booed pretty loudly in the Pitt game. My sense is they were protecting the kid from a repeat on national TV against Belichick, but they had no options other than to try something super high risk. At 3-5 they officially flushed the rest of the season.

Rickie was the big miss. But Carney was also a miss. To have planned to redshirt and develop him and then after 1 year say you no longer have a place here looks like a big miss. But to your point, you can take those chances because it's so easy to just move on in this era.

 

[RF2044]

So effectively they whiffed on Rickie, they whiffed on Carney, and Jakhari was still on the roster but effectively useless for us.

Still wondering if flirting with McCord coming back shot them in the foot.

I think it is not quite as you're laying it out.

They took a flyer on Rickie [unproven], but a blue chip program pedigree with a 4-star background. An understandable roll of the dice. It became obvious in spring that he had some flaws.

So they went out and got Angeli. Again, unproven as a starter -- but he quickly proved to be very good [probably an understatement], before suffering a non-contact injury. Before he went down, we were fast tracking toward a bowl, despite the challenging schedule. Leading the nation in passing [again], with very little drop off from what McCord gave us the year before. This was looking like a home run prior to the non-contact injury... DESPITE having a supar OL.

Jakhari got injured in preseason camp [not widely publicized], and had a procedure to correct what I believe was a shoulder issue. He wasn't able to play this year. Not suggesting that he would have, but had he been healthy I have to believe he would have garnered a look before a walk on.

And after going out and getting two high profile Portal transfers, they landed a HS QB [Carney] who had some success in Texas, who seems perfectly aligned with the type of HS recruit we can pull given our station. Given that the strategy appears to be to go chase starters in the portal, while taking flyers on HS QBs to see if any of them have the chops to be successful, I view it less as a "whiff" and more of a flyer.

The problem was the injury. If Angeli doesn't step weird on a play where he didn't get hit, none of this is a problem.

It was exacerbated by Rickie being subpar, when he was given a chance to play. Had he been even a little bit better, the issues wouldn't seem so alarming. But he isn't, so things blew up. The issue we experienced at QB post-Angeli lie squarely here, IMO [not on Carney not being ready to play as a true frosh].

Had Williams not gotten injured in camp, maybe he would have been a better option / serviceable.

And if Carney had been better, maybe we wouldn't have gotten to the #5 spot on the depth chart, and had to play a walk on.

For the record, I view Zaid Lott through that same lens. He has some tools, but it is a flyer. If he ends up being a good prospect, then disco. If not, then we'll recruit over him via the portal.

But the next two years are Angeli's. Now, it is up to the staff to go out and get better talent in the room behind him, now that the deadweight is being cleared out.

 

[bnoro]

I find it funny how if you say a recruit isn't that good you'll be lambasted but a year later when they leave everyone agrees they weren't good enough.

People love to overhype an underrecruited kid. There's a reason the big Texas schools weren't after this kid. That's a massive red flag.

 

[RF2044]

People love to overhype an underrecruited kid. There's a reason the big Texas schools weren't after this kid. That's a massive red flag.

Yup. But on the other hand, west coast programs like Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, and Boise State [who were a top program at the time] passed on Eric Dungey. He came east as a largely unheralded recruit, and showed superior playmaking acumen.

Some recruits have "it" [like Dungey or Shrader], some do not [like Rickie, who was a higher rated recruit who DID land at a blue chip program]. Programs like SU end up generally landing second tier caliber QBs from HS, and you have to hope that every couple of years one of them pans out.

Even factory programs who recruits LOTS of blue chip QBs have situations where several of them don't pan out. Ohio State had a highly rated QB transfer out after last year, who many thought would potentially start over Sayin, and I can't even tell you where he ended up. Happens all the time. HS QBs are a crapshoot.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We had a generational QB putting up record passing numbers last season and the best we could do as far as a HS recruit was this?

Sorry, but that’s pretty pathetic.

Why are you sorry?

 

[GoSU96]

What a joke.

The plan was to redshirt him, honored the plan.

Where’s the joke?

 

[bnoro]

Yup. But on the other hand, west coast programs like Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, and Boise State [who were a top program at the time] passed on Eric Dungey. He came east as a largely unheralded recruit, and showed superior playmaking acumen.

Some recruits have "it" [like Dungey], some do not [like Rickie, who was a higher rated recruit who DID land at a blue chip program]. Programs like SU end up generally landing second tier caliber QBs from HS, and you have to hope that every couple of years one of them pans out.

Even factory programs who recruits LOTS of blue chip QBs have situations where several of them don't pan out. Ohio State had a highly rated QB transfer out after last year, who many thought would potentially start over Sayin, and I can't even tell you where he ended up. Happens all the time. HS QBs are a crapshoot.

Definitely a crapshoot. Dungey was definitely the beneficiary of an awful few years of QB recruiting, with Austin Wilson, AJ Long, and Mitch Kimble.

Sometimes a kid needs a chance and they can grab it with both hands. Rickie, Carney, Filardi unfortunately were not it.

 

[Blanko97]

I think it is not quite as you're laying it out.

They took a flyer on Rickie [unproven], but a blue chip program pedigree with a 4-star background. It became obvious in spring that he had some flaws.

So they went out and got Angeli. Again, unproven as a starter -- but he quickly proved to be very good [probably an understatement], before suffering a non-contact injury. Before he went down, we were fast tracking toward a bowl, despite the challenging schedule. Leading the nation in passing [again], with very little drop off from what McCord gave us the year before. This was looking like a home run prior to the non-contact injury... DESPITE having a supar OL.

Jakhari got injured in preseason camp [not widely publicized], and had a procedure to correct what I believe was a shoulder issue. He wasn't able to play this year. Not suggesting that he would have, but had he been healthy I have to believe he would have garnered a look before a walk on.

And after going out and getting two high profile Portal transfers, they landed a HS QB [Carney] who had some success in Texas, who seems perfectly aligned with the type of HS recruit we can pull given our station. Given that the strategy appears to be to go chase starters in the portal, while taking flyers on HS QBs to see if any of them have the chops to be successful, I view it less as a "whiff" and more of a flyer.

The problem was the injury. If Angeli doesn't step weird on a play where he didn't get hit, none of this is a problem.

It was exacerbated by Rickie being subpar, when he was given a chance to play. Had he been even a little bit better, the issues wouldn't seem so alarming. But he isn't, so things blew up. The issue we experienced at QB post-Angeli lie squarely here, IMO [not on Carney not being ready to play as a true frosh].

Had Williams not gotten injured in camp, maybe he would have been a better option / serviceable.

And if Carney had been better, maybe we wouldn't have gotten to the #5 spot on the depth chart, and had to play a walk on.

For the record, I view Zaid Lott through that same lens. He has some tools, but it is a flyer. If he ends up being a good prospect, then disco. If not, then we'll recruit over him via the portal.

But the next two years are Angeli's. Now, it is up to the staff to go out and get better talent in the room behind him, now that the deadweight is being cleared out.

I think Angeli was done for a while regardless, I believe there was a report was he had an MCL injury before the achilles so that would've flared up after the game and likely knocked him out for 6 weeks or so

 

[bnoro]

The plan was to redshirt him, honored the plan.

Where’s the joke?

If you planned to redshirt, and the two guys in front of you got injured/were bad, you're a terrible teammate if you don't want to play because it would burn your shirt. Point blank period.

 

[tep624]

I think it is not quite as you're laying it out.

They took a flyer on Rickie [unproven], but a blue chip program pedigree with a 4-star background. It became obvious in spring that he had some flaws.

So they went out and got Angeli. Again, unproven as a starter -- but he quickly proved to be very good [probably an understatement], before suffering a non-contact injury. Before he went down, we were fast tracking toward a bowl, despite the challenging schedule. Leading the nation in passing [again], with very little drop off from what McCord gave us the year before. This was looking like a home run prior to the non-contact injury... DESPITE having a supar OL.

Jakhari got injured in preseason camp [not widely publicized], and had a procedure to correct what I believe was a shoulder issue. He wasn't able to play this year. Not suggesting that he would have, but had he been healthy I have to believe he would have garnered a look before a walk on.

And after going out and getting two high profile Portal transfers, they landed a HS QB [Carney] who had some success in Texas, who seems perfectly aligned with the type of HS recruit we can pull given our station. Given that the strategy appears to be to go chase starters in the portal, while taking flyers on HS QBs to see if any of them have the chops to be successful, I view it less as a "whiff" and more of a flyer.

The problem was the injury. If Angeli doesn't step weird on a play where he didn't get hit, none of this is a problem.

It was exacerbated by Rickie being subpar, when he was given a chance to play. Had he been even a little bit better, the issues wouldn't seem so alarming. But he isn't, so things blew up. The issue we experienced at QB post-Angeli lie squarely here, IMO [not on Carney not being ready to play as a true frosh].

Had Williams not gotten injured in camp, maybe he would have been a better option / serviceable.

And if Carney had been better, maybe we wouldn't have gotten to the #5 spot on the depth chart, and had to play a walk on.

For the record, I view Zaid Lott through that same lens. He has some tools, but it is a flyer. If he ends up being a good prospect, then disco. If not, then we'll recruit over him via the portal.

But the next two years are Angeli's. Now, it is up to the staff to go out and get better talent in the room behind him, now that the deadweight is being cleared out.

I think you’re being overly generous. There was no guarantee Angeli would even had been available. They got him in the late portal window, after both Rickie and Carney. So basically they dumped a bunch of NIL money on a “flyer” transfer, took a HS QB who apparently can’t throw a forward pass 15 yards now (even though there is a lot of film of him doing that - makes the situation even weirder) and then got lucky that Angeli was available but all the eggs were firmly in his basket at that point.

A lot of room for improvement here. Imagine if Angeli hadn’t been available? We would have been lucky to win 2 games. Just really disappointing after what McCord did and what the offense did in 2024 - you would have thought some top QB talent would have been amped to be here.

 

[SuFTW]

If you planned to redshirt, and the two guys in front of you got injured/were bad, you're a terrible teammate if you don't want to play because it would burn your shirt. Point blank period.

Play as in a few hand offs and then be taken out?

 

[bnoro]

Play as in a few hand offs and then be taken out?

If he wasn't all in on playing, the staff probably didn't trust him to make plays

 

[tep624]

I think Angeli was done for a while regardless, I believe there was a report was he had an MCL injury before the achilles so that would've flared up after the game and likely knocked him out for 6 weeks or so

He did. He was already hobbled.

 

[SuFTW]

If he wasn't all in on playing, the staff probably didn't trust him to make plays

If…. You can play 4 games and still redshirt. Still strange the way he was used. Does seem to be a lack of trust, at least I hope that’s what it was.

 

[cusefan88]

QB scouting is incredibly difficult. Just look at how many flame out in college and NFL. Bigger issue was how bad the QB room was behind Angeli and that is on Fran Nunz and Nixon.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Sorry. I’m wondering like everyone else….

Form what I know your initial thought process is correct. Carney was initially leaning toward returning, I believe the interest from outside QBs has changed the calculus for him and SU.

 

[RF2044]

I think you’re being overly generous. There was no guarantee Angeli would even had been available. They got him in the late portal window, after both Rickie and Carney. So basically they dumped a bunch of NIL money on a “flyer” transfer, took a HS QB who apparently can’t throw a forward pass 15 yards now (even though there is a lot of film of him doing that - makes the situation even weirder) and then got lucky that Angeli was available but all the eggs were firmly in his basket at that point.

A lot of room for improvement here. Imagine if Angeli hadn’t been available? We would have been lucky to win 2 games. Just really disappointing after what McCord did and what the offense did in 2024 - you would have thought some top QB talent would have been amped to be here.

But he WAS avialable.

And to peel the onion back a little further, we were linked to Angeli the previous year [he wanted to come here when Fran got the job, due to the Capinile connection, and his camp put out feelers], but we opted for McCord.

So all signs pointed to Angeli being an option IF he didn't win the ND job. He easily could have -- but they cast their lot with their frosh QB, and the rest is history.

 

[MikeSU02]

First, good luck to Luke wherever he ends up.

Second, maybe Luke would have worked out, maybe not. No doubt he wasn’t freshman McNabb by a long shot.

But the most disturbing thing is the handling of the QB situation all year.

Angeli came late.

Rickie was speed running to be the most turnover-prone QB in P4.

Filardi was the worst starting QB at SU in my lifetime.

And Luke got dropped in randomly during games that were a den of mayhem even tho he started the year as QB3.

I know we got McCord. But that was extenuating circumstances.

We have Angeli coming back from the Achilles and a knee injury.

We are losing Ross at WR to the portal stemming from a bad situation.

I have faith in Fran. I like the DC pickup. I know we’ll get talent via the portal.

But the handling of arguably the most important position in sports can’t be written off to “they all sucked” and a shoulder shrug. We were dead to rights in every game almost after Angeli.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think you’re being overly generous. There was no guarantee Angeli would even had been available. They got him in the late portal window, after both Rickie and Carney. So basically they dumped a bunch of NIL money on a “flyer” transfer, took a HS QB who apparently can’t throw a forward pass 15 yards now (even though there is a lot of film of him doing that - makes the situation even weirder) and then got lucky that Angeli was available but all the eggs were firmly in his basket at that point.

A lot of room for improvement here. Imagine if Angeli hadn’t been available? We would have been lucky to win 2 games. Just really disappointing after what McCord did and what the offense did in 2024 - you would have thought some top QB talent would have been amped to be here.

There is no way we win two games. Even the one game would have come down to the end.

The whole QB plan was crazy from the start. At the very least we needed an upperclassmen FCS QB with some experience here in the Spring.

 

[tep624]

But he WAS avialable.

And to peel the onion back a little further, we were linked to Angeli the previous year [he wanted to come here when Fran got the job, due to the Capinile connection, and his camp put out feelers], but we opted for McCord.

So all signs pointed to Angeli being an option IF he didn't win the ND job. He easily could have -- but they cast their lot with their frosh QB, and the rest is history.

I get that, but hoping Angeli loses out on the starting position at ND and getting him in the late portal isn’t a strategy. It’s gambling lol.

I wonder if Jakhari had he not been injured would have been a more serviceable backup than Rickie? I’ll be curious to follow his career when he lands elsewhere.

 

[RF2044]

I get that, but hoping Angeli loses out on the starting position at ND and getting him in the late portal isn’t a strategy. It’s gambling lol.

I wonder if Jakhari had he not been injured would have been a more serviceable backup than Rickie? I’ll be curious to follow his career when he lands elsewhere.

Then they would have gone in another direction. Because they had spring practice to evaluate Rickie, and could see that he wasn't the answer.

Not sure who they would have pivoted to if Angeli hadn't been available [he was the guy they'd targeted all along], but they knew that they needed an upgrade, and they went out and got one.

Doesn't make sense to wring hands over something that didn't transpire -- they landed Angeli. It wasn't like he was added in July -- he committed here in the spring window, after spring practice, when there is a large influx of players into the portal [i.e., not "late"].

 

[PAcuse]

So effectively they whiffed on Rickie, they whiffed on Carney, and Jakhari was still on the roster but effectively useless for us.

Still wondering if flirting with McCord coming back shot them in the foot.

I think Carney and Belin where both brought into Redshirt and then develop after that.
Clearly that did no work and someone hinted or said Carney and his dad really pushed for redshirt and that might have rub the staff the wrong way or parents are pissed he was used as a RB bacially.

Currently it does seem like we did strikeout out on Rickie, Jakhari, and Luke.
McCord and Angeli where/are studs.
Undecided on Berlin.
Trending towards a strikeout with Filradi but he was a "walk on" so he gets some grace.

Interesting to see what Lott and the transfer portal brings to the room.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I thought they already said Belin was moving to running back?

 

[Archbold44]

In hindsight, this probably would have been best. But he was getting booed pretty loudly in the Pitt game. My sense is they were protecting the kid from a repeat on national TV against Belichick, but they had no options other than to try something super high risk. At 3-5 they officially flushed the rest of the season.

Rickie was the big miss. But Carney was also a miss. To have planned to redshirt and develop him and then after 1 year say you no longer have a place here looks like a big miss. But to your point, you can take those chances because it's so easy to just move on in this era.

That is why you start Carney against UNC... and then bring Rickie in if/when it is apparent that Rickie is better than Carney. You will never get me to understand why Rickie was not QB#2 against UNC regardless of who was QB#1 against UNC (especially given that he started against Miami). BC flipflopped all year between 3 QBs and used two of them to beat us in Game 12.

 

[sdhall01]

Why Fran did not play him is beyond strange

I don't think it's that strange if he wasn't that good in practice.