Marroneball

[OttoinGrotto]

30 points is not a lot.

56 teams are averaging more than 30 points per game.

We have such a warped perspective because of how crappy SU's offense has been for most of a decade.

It's getting to the point where I want to tell people to stop watching SU games and spend a Saturday getting a taste for what the college game is about now.

Just because this is probably the best offense we've seen in a while doesn't mean its not still subpar. What's funny is, I like our talent. I think Nassib, Bailey, Provo, Lemon and Chew are all solid.

I'm skeptical of the scheme. I still don't think we pass the ball enough.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

"We've waited thirty years"?

For a passing team?

Didn't you watch Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves, Don McNabb and even Billy Scharr, Kevin Mason and Greg Paulus?

Didn't you watch Rob Moore or Rob Carpenter, Marvin Harrison, Kevin Johnson, Jim Turner, Quinton Spotwood, Qadry Ismail, Tommy Kane, Mike Williams and Deval Glover?

I'm satisfied that the Dome has been used effectively.

I'm not.

I realize this strikes at the very heart of your support for Coach P, but the passing game has been sorely underutilized in the Dome.

We should have been college version's of the greatest show on turf, or at least transitioned to that at some point. Instead we got a bunch of option football, dreams of a 200/200 passing/rushing split, whatever sludge Gump rolled out on offense, and now, just now, are we starting to see the type of passing attack that other programs mastered much earlier this decade.

We should have been on the forefront of that, not on the tail end.

 

[Czar]

The BYU system has resulted in limited success against fairly mediocre competition. The lack of balance in such a system probably explains why no major program uses it and why BYU is and has been over the years a decent but not great program.

Five head coaches and many, many offensive coordinators at SU, including Tom Coughlin, apparently have not seen the appropriateness of a throw all the time system in the Dome for the past 30 years - it may also be that our recruiting region does not lend itself to the development of the players you identified - throwing the ball in the NE to that extent at the HS level is probably not feasible.

Um, ing what? Do you NOT watch any college football outside the Northeast? Okie State, a National Title contender, just passed the ball 60 times. Oklahoma passes the out of the ball, Boise State passes the ball, Stanford passes. The ones that don't pass in the Top of the Top 25 usually used a spread and wide open system. NOTHING we do is like that.

 

[OrangePA]

Um, ******* what? Do you NOT watch any college football outside the Northeast? Okie State, a National Title contender, just passed the ball 60 times. Oklahoma passes the **** out of the ball, Boise State passes the ball, Stanford passes. The ones that don't pass in the Top of the Top 25 usually used a spread and wide open system. NOTHING we do is like that.

You again?

See Wisconsin which runs the ball without a spread. See Alabama that runs the ball I'm pretty sure without a spread. See Ga Tech that runs the ball without a spread.

See Florida with Weiss who is running an offense that is similar to our offense.

Over the years Syracuse University has passed the ball. Please re-read my post regarding Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves and Don McNabb.

Thank you.

 

[OrangePA]

randy edsall's OC crowton is a lavell edwards disciple

all the spread offenses out there derive from BYU somewhat

I didn't know that.

I though RR is generally credited with creating the spread passing offense.

And Mouse Davis with creating the run and shoot.

Never heard that Lavelle Edwards did that.

 

[Czar]

You again?

See Wisconsin which runs the ball without a spread. See Alabama that runs the ball I'm pretty sure without a spread. See Ga Tech that runs the ball without a spread.

See Florida with Weiss who is running an offense that is similar to our offense.

Over the years Syracuse University has passed the ball. Please re-read my post regarding Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves and Don McNabb.

Thank you.

You're citing exceptions to the rule of the college landscape. Also Alabama runs a single back system with spread Wide Receivers, almost a spread but with more under center action. Florida's offense is a hybird pro/spread style. Georgia Tech is a ing anomaly, and Wisconsin is Wisconsin, so I really don't get your point. I'm pretty certain you're just naming teams you know don't run these systems from Sportscenter highlights and haven't watched any of them. Also, I'm sorry, but if we're going by college standards NO Syracuse QB has ever been in a pass first offense, you're delusional.

 

[Millhouse]

It's getting to the point where I want to tell people to stop watching SU games and spend a Saturday getting a taste for what the college game is about now.

Just because this is probably the best offense we've seen in a while doesn't mean its not still subpar. What's funny is, I like our talent. I think Nassib, Bailey, Provo, Lemon and Chew are all solid.

I'm skeptical of the scheme. I still don't think we pass the ball enough.

our average ranking in passing offense since 2000 is 88th. that's as far back as i could go

even in 1992, we only avgd 213 yards passing per game. even back then opponents avgd 245 against us

we've had great qbs and wrs but have never been a great passing offense. which is fine.

the year where mcnabb and harrison played together, they averaged 182 ypg. opponents averaged 226.

i think that would be surprising to most casual nfl fans.

which is why we can't get too excited over nassib breaking passing records just yet

 

[Millhouse]

I didn't know that.

I though RR is generally credited with creating the spread passing offense.

And Mouse Davis with creating the run and shoot.

Never heard that Lavelle Edwards did that.

aye yi yi

 

[Scooch]

It's getting to the point where I want to tell people to stop watching SU games and spend a Saturday getting a taste for what the college game is about now.

Just because this is probably the best offense we've seen in a while doesn't mean its not still subpar. What's funny is, I like our talent. I think Nassib, Bailey, Provo, Lemon and Chew are all solid.

I'm skeptical of the scheme. I still don't think we pass the ball enough.

People have these old-school benchmarks in their head. I get it, it's tough to change one's perception of 'success'. But 30 points in today's game is literally average. Half of college football scores more than that on average every week.

I'm basically agnostic when it comes to scheme. I just want Marrone to find something that puts an above average amount of points on the board. Recruit a field goal kicking mule for all I f@#king care. Just score a lot more.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Over the years Syracuse University has passed the ball. Please re-read my post regarding Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves and Don McNabb.

Nobodies saying we were running service academy option football. A lot of us think we didn't pass enough, and haven't taken advantage of the ideal conditions for a passing attack that we have in the Dome.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

People have these old-school benchmarks in their head. I get it, it's tough to change one's perception of 'success'. But 30 points in today's game is literally average. Half of college football scores more than that on average every week.

I'm basically agnostic when it comes to scheme. I just want Marrone to find something that puts an above average amount of points on the board. Recruit a field goal kicking mule for all I f@#king care. Just score a lot more.

The only thing I'd disagree with is that I do think scheme matters. We have a stadium that should be a QB's dream. With the right scheme I honestly believe we're a top 10 destination for QBs.

I would get behind a field goal kicking mule though. I mean, not literally, but like... nevermind.

 

[cuseincincy]

Over the years Syracuse University has passed the ball. Please re-read my post regarding Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves and Don McNabb.

Thank you.

McNabb - 20 attempts per game, Graves 21 attempts per game, McPherson 15 attempts per game. Those are examples of QB's that could pass but were held back by scheme and coaching. To only allow Donovan McNabb to throw the ball 20 times a game for 4 years was near criminal. :bat:

 

[Scooch]

The only thing I'd disagree with is that I do think scheme matters. We have a stadium that should be a QB's dream. With the right scheme I honestly believe we're a top 10 destination for QBs.

I would get behind a field goal kicking mule though. I mean, not literally, but like... nevermind.

I don't disagree, I think there are a lot of creative coaches who would love to have the chance to design an O for a controlled environment like the Dome 6-7 times a year. I'm just not convinced yet that Marrone won't take more advantage of that over time.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't disagree, I think there are a lot of creative coaches who would love to have the chance to design an O for a controlled environment like the Dome 6-7 times a year. I'm just not convinced yet that Marrone won't take more advantage of that over time.

That's fair. I am happy we're throwing more. I do think we're moving in the right direction.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't disagree, I think there are a lot of creative coaches who would love to have the chance to design an O for a controlled environment like the Dome 6-7 times a year. I'm just not convinced yet that Marrone won't take more advantage of that over time.

he brought in transfers at WR, QB, and o line. he didn't bring transfers was at running back. makes me think out of the guys he inherited, he likes the rbs the best. until his guys come in and mature, he's going to lean on the RBs heavily. but he's throwing more in spite of that which might mean that he'll really start to throw more in time

 

[OrangePA]

McNabb - 20 attempts per game, Graves 21 attempts per game, McPherson 15 attempts per game. Those are examples of QB's that could pass but were held back by scheme and coaching. To only allow Donovan McNabb to throw the ball 20 times a game for 4 years was near criminal. :bat:

Donnie McPherson was held back?

I am pretty sure that he came in second in the Heisman, went undefeated and won just about every QB award one could win in a season.

Graves was a national leader in passing.

McNabb was a first round pick.

No need to continue this discussion. Wow.

 

[OrangePA]

The only thing I'd disagree with is that I do think scheme matters. We have a stadium that should be a QB's dream. With the right scheme I honestly believe we're a top 10 destination for QBs.

I would get behind a field goal kicking mule though. I mean, not literally, but like... nevermind.

Well, then why haven't we?

Why do all the coaches we hire fail to do what you think we should do?

 

[OrangePA]

our average ranking in passing offense since 2000 is 88th. that's as far back as i could go

even in 1992, we only avgd 213 yards passing per game. even back then opponents avgd 245 against us

we've had great qbs and wrs but have never been a great passing offense. which is fine.

the year where mcnabb and harrison played together, they averaged 182 ypg. opponents averaged 226.

i think that would be surprising to most casual nfl fans.

which is why we can't get too excited over nassib breaking passing records just yet

I don't have a media guide in front of me, but I would guess that during those years we ran the ball well.

I really don't care all that much what kind of offense we run - I liked Spence's offense.

Generally speaking, teams that balance the run with the pass perform better.

I suspect that that is what Marrone wants to do.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, then why haven't we?

Why do all the coaches we hire fail to do what you think we should do?

Because they're meatheads.

 

[Czar]

Donnie McPherson was held back?

I am pretty sure that he came in second in the Heisman, went undefeated and won just about every QB award one could win in a season.

Graves was a national leader in passing.

McNabb was a first round pick.

No need to continue this discussion. Wow.

Yes, yes there is, because you're using confirmation bias.

Don McPherson attempted only 229 passes in 87, completed only 56%, only got 2,341 yards, and had a 22/11 TD/INT ratio. He had no business being talked about for the Heisman, he merely got in on the voting due to the fact that the team went undefeated.

Marvin Graves didn't even have half the ing yards of the passing leader in 1993, threw the ball only 280 times, and had only 15 TD's to 11 INT's

Donovan McNabb was picked purely on potential alone. Most people hated the ing pick BECAUSE no one knew whether he could actually pass or not. He never threw more than 265 times in a season, only had a career high 62% completion percentage his senior season, and never broke 2500 yards passing. Where he was way above average, and which shows how under underutilized he was, he threw 22 TD to 5 INT's his senior season, which is more than double the ratio of any other Syracuse QB you mentioned.

Again, you're wrong, just stop.

 

[Czar]

I don't have a media guide in front of me, but I would guess that during those years we ran the ball well.

I really don't care all that much what kind of offense we run - I liked Spence's offense.

Generally speaking, teams that balance the run with the pass perform better.

I suspect that that is what Marrone wants to do.

Generally speaking, you're wrong. There are a few teams who have close to 50/50 balance with success. Alabama, LSU, Wisconsin.

 

[OrangePA]

You know, your posts are much more persuasive when you pretend that you're cursing.

I really have not studied this issue to the degree that you apparently have, but it seems to me that most of the teams that have won the BCS lately have had balance. Indeed, most teams that have won lately have run the ball a great deal with athletic QBs - see Florida's Tebow, Auburn's Newton, and Texas' Young.

Indeed, the style that has prevailed lately is pretty consistent with what SU was doing in the late 1980s and 1990s.

So, if you are suggesting that SU should try to recruit athletic QBs who can pass and run, I'm with you - I think that's a good strategy.

 

[OrangePA]

Because they're meatheads.

Of course.

I figured that was the answer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Of course.

I figured that was the answer.

I'm glad we are agreed.

 

[OrangePA]

Yes, yes there is, because you're using confirmation bias.

Don McPherson attempted only 229 passes in 87, completed only 56%, only got 2,341 yards, and had a 22/11 TD/INT ratio. He had no business being talked about for the Heisman, he merely got in on the voting due to the fact that the team went undefeated.

Marvin Graves didn't even have half the ******* yards of the passing leader in 1993, threw the ball only 280 times, and had only 15 TD's to 11 INT's

Donovan McNabb was picked purely on potential alone. Most people hated the ******* pick BECAUSE no one knew whether he could actually pass or not. He never threw more than 265 times in a season, only had a career high 62% completion percentage his senior season, and never broke 2500 yards passing. Where he was way above average, and which shows how under underutilized he was, he threw 22 TD to 5 INT's his senior season, which is more than double the ratio of any other Syracuse QB you mentioned.

Again, you're wrong, just stop.

Who are "most people" who hated the McNabb pick? Do you live in Philly?

Nobody knew if Don could pass and yet he was underutilized in that regard?