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Marroneball

SWC75

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Nathaniel Hackett told Chris Gedney before the game that we were going to play "Doug Marrone football- establish the run!" Doug, on his show, said that they wanted more big plays and felt they had to establish the run to "open up the seams" downfield for the receivers.

Toledo had 8 men in the box already and SU receivers were running free on every play. The Rockets were giving up 278 yards per game passing. We have a red hot quarterback who has performed besty in the no-huddle passing game, (as in early vs. USC). When he only passes occassionally he loses his rhythm and then we get the over-throws and bad decisons. We've got a great corps of receivers and two running backs both of whom need to be in space. They are not effective between the tackles. Our best running plays come after completed passes, (like Bailey's run). We have waited 30 years for a passing team that could take advantage of the fast track of the Dome and we finally have one. The best thing this team can do is to us the pass to set up the run, not the other way around. Make them cover the whole field and then hit them in the gaps that open up. Don't run the ball to make them defend the line of scrimmage and occassionally go deep. Heck, they already have eight in the box. The are already set up for the pass from the moment they line up.

I called this opnion into the Bud and the Manchild Show and Bud said the answer was that Marrone is an NFL guy and the NFL is a running league. No it isn't. The 2008 Saints, Doug's last team, ran the ball 398 times and passed it 666 times, (61.5%). I called into Brent Axe nand he said that "running the football is the eprsonality of this team." The personality of a team is based on it's personnel and this team has the personnel of a passing team. brent said that the fans are always asking for more passing, that we are doing well and we should be statis with being 3-1. But we are 3-1 with two overtime wins and a one TD win over an FCS team. All those games would have been easier to win if we'd played to our stengths and passing the ball is our strength.
 
There's your question for the next Marrone show. I think I asked a similar question last year and don't remember what he said
 
They don't think they can win this year with the passing game, probably because of the WR. They gambled that they could get by toledo and work on the running game. and they scored 33 doing it. their best chance for big plays comes out of the backfield. but hackett's not going to come out and say that.

hopefully marrone can recruit well enough so that we'll know what he really wants to do.
 
They don't think they can win this year with the passing game, probably because of the WR. They gambled that they could get by toledo and work on the running game. and they scored 33 doing it. their best chance for big plays comes out of the backfield. but hackett's not going to come out and say that.

hopefully marrone can recruit well enough so that we'll know what he really wants to do.

Actually they are very happy with the WR's. I think it was more the pass protection.
 
Actually they are very happy with the WR's. I think it was more the pass protection.

Agree Bees, the O Line is the issue, I think they like the wide receivers
 
I think the bigger issue is that when we play better defenses in the Big East, they're not going to stack 8 in the box, and they're going to start to focus on defending the pass, so we need to prove that our running game is a viable threat.
 
Actually they are very happy with the WR's. I think it was more the pass protection.

Agree 100%. Whether you run 100 times per game or pass 100 times per game, it all starts up front with the OL.

And right now, the OL is one of the weakest units on the team as an aggregate. With Marrone being an OL guy [in theory], this is something that hopefully he will be able to address via recruiting.
 
Agree with you 100%. This is not a running team. Your whole post is my personal issue with Marrone so far. I've been quiet because it is hard to argue with success and the team has been winning. 30 points in regulation is alot of points, but giving up 30 points is also alot of points. This SU team is not a control the time of possession, run the ball, win with defense team. SU's 3 victories so far do nothing to suggest that this is a team capable of 8 or more wins.
 
Agree with you 100%. This is not a running team. Your whole post is my personal issue with Marrone so far. I've been quiet because it is hard to argue with success and the team has been winning. 30 points in regulation is alot of points, but giving up 30 points is also alot of points. This SU team is not a control the time of possession, run the ball, win with defense team. SU's 3 victories so far do nothing to suggest that this is a team capable of 8 or more wins.

This team is a grind it out somehow get 6-7 win type team, hopefully we get there and the next two are huge for that
 
I feel like I understand the game of football pretty well. A constant you hear is establishing the running game to open up the pass. Well, if you're a passing team, why not establish it to soften up the defense and open the running lanes? Seems to make sense but maybe I dont know as much as in think. If I'm a coach, I flat out run the strengths of my offense.
 
This team is a grind it out somehow get 6-7 win type team, hopefully we get there and the next two are huge for that
You guys have no idea how many wins we will end up with. I think the negativity of the posters on this board is almost insane. I agree that it was not a good decision to insist on running the ball against toledo. But to say that we weren't passing the ball because of protection issues just isn't true. SU handled whatever pressure Toledo attempted very well. No one this year has been able to stop our passing game including USC.
As far as saying we can only hope to win 6 games its dilusional, of the remaing 8 games there are atleast 6 we have a very good chance of winning.
 
Our personnel screams Spread. We would run the ball a lot better out of the Spread IMO. Both Bailey and Gulley would be a lot more dangerous. Also I think it would help our OL. In addition we would be more dangerous with the pass as well. IMO we are not maximizing the O's potential playing the way we do. And I LOVE power running Os. So this is not biased. I enjoy watching a team with a workhorse back. Which is why I loved the Walter Reyes teams. But that jut isn't a fit for the players we have.
 
THANK YOU! I felt like no one realized this in the Hackett thread earlier. This is not Marrone ball, Marrone ball is 2/3 pass 1/3 run. I'm sorry, but unless you have a Lattimore, or a Richardson, you need to pass the ing ball to win in the college game today. We can do that, so why aren't we doing that and instead running ing dive plays and watching Bailey run up linemans legs all the time?
 
Nathaniel Hackett told Chris Gedney before the game that we were going to play "Doug Marrone football- establish the run!" Doug, on his show, said that they wanted more big plays and felt they had to establish the run to "open up the seams" downfield for the receivers.

Toledo had 8 men in the box already and SU receivers were running free on every play. The Rockets were giving up 278 yards per game passing. We have a red hot quarterback who has performed besty in the no-huddle passing game, (as in early vs. USC). When he only passes occassionally he loses his rhythm and then we get the over-throws and bad decisons. We've got a great corps of receivers and two running backs both of whom need to be in space. They are not effective between the tackles. Our best running plays come after completed passes, (like Bailey's run). We have waited 30 years for a passing team that could take advantage of the fast track of the Dome and we finally have one. The best thing this team can do is to us the pass to set up the run, not the other way around. Make them cover the whole field and then hit them in the gaps that open up. Don't run the ball to make them defend the line of scrimmage and occassionally go deep. Heck, they already have eight in the box. The are already set up for the pass from the moment they line up.

I called this opnion into the Bud and the Manchild Show and Bud said the answer was that Marrone is an NFL guy and the NFL is a running league. No it isn't. The 2008 Saints, Doug's last team, ran the ball 398 times and passed it 666 times, (61.5%). I called into Brent Axe nand he said that "running the football is the eprsonality of this team." The personality of a team is based on it's personnel and this team has the personnel of a passing team. brent said that the fans are always asking for more passing, that we are doing well and we should be statis with being 3-1. But we are 3-1 with two overtime wins and a one TD win over an FCS team. All those games would have been easier to win if we'd played to our stengths and passing the ball is our strength.
"We've waited thirty years"?

For a passing team?

Didn't you watch Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves, Don McNabb and even Billy Scharr, Kevin Mason and Greg Paulus?

Didn't you watch Rob Moore or Rob Carpenter, Marvin Harrison, Kevin Johnson, Jim Turner, Quinton Spotwood, Qadry Ismail, Tommy Kane, Mike Williams and Deval Glover?

I'm satisfied that the Dome has been used effectively.
 
were a spread team this year and if the usc game success didnt show that then I am not sure what everyone was watching. We need to spread the field out thorugh the 7 yard pass and move the chains down the field. Now with Gulley hopefully becomign a threat and West getting into the fold we now even have more weapons to choose from. Lets keep throwing it around, we got a pretty solid qb back there that is efficent and not stupid.
 
"We've waited thirty years"?

For a passing team?

Didn't you watch Donnie McPherson, Todd Philcox, Marvin Graves, Don McNabb and even Billy Scharr, Kevin Mason and Greg Paulus?

Didn't you watch Rob Moore or Rob Carpenter, Marvin Harrison, Kevin Johnson, Jim Turner, Quinton Spotwood, Qadry Ismail, Tommy Kane, Mike Williams and Deval Glover?

I'm satisfied that the Dome has been used effectively.

We've had some good QBs and rece4ivers over the years. Our quarterbacks have averaged throwing 231 passes a year in the Carrier Dome era. Rayn Nassib last year became only the third SU quaterback to have 300 throws in a season and set a record with 358. The type of passing attack the Dome would been perfect for the sort of offense that was run by BYU or Houston or Texas Tech or Boise State.

I once made a post noting that quarterbacks at places like that often accumulated huge numbers but some of them turned out to be NFL disappointments and analysist would say: he's a system quarterback"- implying that the quarterback had put up huge numbers simply because of the system he played in. I then said "I wish we had a system". A lot of posters saw it the same way.

Here are some seaosns by BYU quarterbacks over the years:
Gifford Nielsen 207/372 3192yds 29TDs 19int
Marc Wilson 250/427 3720yds 29TDs 15int
Jim McMahon 284/445 4571yds 47TDs 18int
Steve Young 306/429 3820yds 33TDs 10int
Robbie Bosco 283/458 3875yds 33TDs 11int
Ty Detmer 249/403 4031yds 35TDs 12int
John Walsh 284/463 3712yds 29TDs 14int
Steve Sarkisian 278/404 4027yds 33TDs 12int
Kevin Feterik 277/452 3554yds 25TDs 15int
Brandon Doman 261/408 3542yds 33TDs 8int
John Beck 289/417 3805yds 32TDs 8int
Max Hall 330/477 3957yds 35TDs 14int

That's the kind of system I'm talking about. And the Dome with it's fast track and perfect weather conditons would have been an ideal place for that type of attack. We would have drawn the talent needed to play that way because players would have come here to do it. And the Dome would be packed to see all that scoring. We presently have the kind of personnell to play that way and Ryan Nassib's numbers at the end of the season should look like the above.
 
30 points is not a lot.

56 teams are averaging more than 30 points per game.

We have such a warped perspective because of how crappy SU's offense has been for most of a decade.
 
30 points is not a lot.

56 teams are averaging more than 30 points per game.

We have such a warped perspective because of how crappy SU's offense has been for most of a decade.

What's wrong with being happy with our present offensive production?

The O-line is not great, & we still score pretty well... It can only get better, & we are winning even now...

I don't know if it's coaching or Nassib himself, but he has changed quite a few minds, including mine. I said last season that he wasn't the one to lead us into the New Era of winning, but he is doing just what I thought he couldn't do... He's not Peyton Manning, but he's getting the job done. If the defense were more settled, this team would win 10 gams THIS SEASON. Obviously, the D is a skeleton crew, so we must rely on the offense to produce enough points to get Bowl Eligible...
 
were a spread team this year and if the usc game success didnt show that then I am not sure what everyone was watching. We need to spread the field out thorugh the 7 yard pass and move the chains down the field. Now with Gulley hopefully becomign a threat and West getting into the fold we now even have more weapons to choose from. Lets keep throwing it around, we got a pretty solid qb back there that is efficent and not stupid.
We are NOT a spread team, are you joking? If you think what Syracuse is doing is the definition of a spread football team I'd tell you to watch Okie State for a year, and then get back to me.
 
What's wrong with being happy with our present offensive production?

The O-line is not great, & we still score pretty well... It can only get better, & we are winning even now...

I don't know if it's coaching or Nassib himself, but he has changed quite a few minds, including mine. I said last season that he wasn't the one to lead us into the New Era of winning, but he is doing just what I thought he couldn't do... He's not Peyton Manning, but he's getting the job done. If the defense were more settled, this team would win 10 gams THIS SEASON. Obviously, the D is a skeleton crew, so we must rely on the offense to produce enough points to get Bowl Eligible...

We've won two games in overtime and beaten an FCS team by a touchdown. The defense, as you say is a "skeleton crew". This was supposed to be the year that the offense carries the defense. To come anywhere near winning 10 games the offesne is going to have get a lot better and going away from it's strength- and the opposition's weakness in the case of Toledo- isn't the way to do that.
 
What's wrong with being happy with our present offensive production?

2 reasons
1 - Because there are 75 teams in the FBS averaging more points. (This particularly important because there are 79 teams that give up less points)
2 - It seems to me that we're playing with fire by trying to play "Marroneball" without having a strong defense to back that up.

I'm not saying SU needs to lead the country in scoring but it does need to get into the top 30 or so (on both sides).
 
SU just needs to keep improving with what the coaches are teaching them and it will continue to get better. I have a lot of faith in this staff and what I like the most is their ability to keep learning and improving themselves along with the time they spend with hs coaches. I firmly believe that if they can improve the recruiting by getting a better percentage of recruits they target, we will be a very happy fan base. This is a young beat up team and they have played 3 good teams and won 2 of them.

I think one dimensional teams lose to teams that are good enough to shut them down. If you can pass and run it makes it that much harder to focus on one area and if we can be better than average at both, offensively the sky is the limit.
 
We've had some good QBs and rece4ivers over the years. Our quarterbacks have averaged throwing 231 passes a year in the Carrier Dome era. Rayn Nassib last year became only the third SU quaterback to have 300 throws in a season and set a record with 358. The type of passing attack the Dome would been perfect for the sort of offense that was run by BYU or Houston or Texas Tech or Boise State.

I once made a post noting that quarterbacks at places like that often accumulated huge numbers but some of them turned out to be NFL disappointments and analysist would say: he's a system quarterback"- implying that the quarterback had put up huge numbers simply because of the system he played in. I then said "I wish we had a system". A lot of posters saw it the same way.

Here are some seaosns by BYU quarterbacks over the years:
Gifford Nielsen 207/372 3192yds 29TDs 19int
Marc Wilson 250/427 3720yds 29TDs 15int
Jim McMahon 284/445 4571yds 47TDs 18int
Steve Young 306/429 3820yds 33TDs 10int
Robbie Bosco 283/458 3875yds 33TDs 11int
Ty Detmer 249/403 4031yds 35TDs 12int
John Walsh 284/463 3712yds 29TDs 14int
Steve Sarkisian 278/404 4027yds 33TDs 12int
Kevin Feterik 277/452 3554yds 25TDs 15int
Brandon Doman 261/408 3542yds 33TDs 8int
John Beck 289/417 3805yds 32TDs 8int
Max Hall 330/477 3957yds 35TDs 14int

That's the kind of system I'm talking about. And the Dome with it's fast track and perfect weather conditons would have been an ideal place for that type of attack. We would have drawn the talent needed to play that way because players would have come here to do it. And the Dome would be packed to see all that scoring. We presently have the kind of personnell to play that way and Ryan Nassib's numbers at the end of the season should look like the above.
The BYU system has resulted in limited success against fairly mediocre competition. The lack of balance in such a system probably explains why no major program uses it and why BYU is and has been over the years a decent but not great program.

Five head coaches and many, many offensive coordinators at SU, including Tom Coughlin, apparently have not seen the appropriateness of a throw all the time system in the Dome for the past 30 years - it may also be that our recruiting region does not lend itself to the development of the players you identified - throwing the ball in the NE to that extent at the HS level is probably not feasible.
 
The BYU system has resulted in limited success against fairly mediocre competition. The lack of balance in such a system probably explains why no major program uses it and why BYU is and has been over the years a decent but not great program.

Five head coaches and many, many offensive coordinators at SU, including Tom Coughlin, apparently have not seen the appropriateness of a throw all the time system in the Dome for the past 30 years - it may also be that our recruiting region does not lend itself to the development of the players you identified - throwing the ball in the NE to that extent at the HS level is probably not feasible.
randy edsall's OC crowton is a lavell edwards disciple

all the spread offenses out there derive from BYU somewhat
 

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