Marrone's tenure here...

[Bayside44]

We joined the ACC in the middle of Marrone's 3rd year. We started this year, big difference. He knew the money was coming.

That he had visions of the mid 1980s was his fault, not SU's.

 

[orangehomer]

You don't get it do you. The program sank to 119 out of 120 when he took over. You like many don't really know what he was up against.

Bro - he work a miracle here - plain and simple - and at least those who fully understand his value hired him to go to the next level - the NFL! You sound like a Board member I know that had the same short sided viewpoint as you - another reason on he left but that is another story.

But he did like baloney I'll grant you that.

that's all fine, I'm in disagreement that he worked a "miracle" given the resources the program has. but that is not the point. the question is are we a better program, now...today, than we were 4 years ago when marrone took over? I think that is a hard argument to make based on our wins and our schedule. I think we are back at square one, is Schafer the guy???

 

[Bayside44]

He also had an 80 yard indoor facility in his 2nd year and across the hall the Carmelo Center was built by JB, not Gross.

VT is getting an indoor facility - they guy golfing down the street with the big donors was Beamer.

 

[chakka3421]

We joined the ACC in the middle of Marrone's 3rd year. We started this year, big difference. He knew the money was coming.

That he had visions of the mid 1980s was his fault, not SU's.

Not true - their was still no support for the IPF until after he left - suddenly we found the money to build the IPF - lightbulb!

 

[Bayside44]

Not true - their was still no support for the IPF until after he left - suddenly we found the money to build the IPF - lightbulb!

JB built the Melo Center. The donors gave to him, certainly not to DG. That's the job, crappy as it may be.

 

[orangehomer]

When he interviewed and first got here he was all in - that was his style - and you could see it in his eyes that this was his dream job at first.

However, he never got the support he thought the football program needed to be competitive in recruiting. Facilities were a mess and basically hadn't changed since he left as a player. Assistant coaches salaries were sub par. Olympic sports had too much $ allocated to them at the expense of the football program. We had turned into a bball school that is played inside a football stadium how crazy is that? Did we build the Dome just to play basketball in it?

The football program had sunk to 119 out of 120 when he took over - I once told him early on that the SU football program should be shut down if he couldn't turn it around. At first he took it on as a challenge to fix the program, facilities, fan support & simply to bring the program back to the old glory days.

He did come to understand that the landscape where facilities and fan attendance was used against him in recruiting battles. We did lose some really close battles here in NY - much closer than you all know going all the way back to D Easley. However, the battles off the field were what really changed his dream job into a nightmare.

He fought huge battles to get monies allocated to simply upgrade football facilities. He couldn't understand why their was no support - he knew on the national scene football drives the bus - and he knew SU wanted to join either the BiG or ACC and those leagues understand that football drives the bus. He thought many here were short sided because they didn't understand the changing landscape. He did finally come to realize how far the BE conference had slid so low on the national scene because it didn't value football as much as it did basketball. And that SU had become blinded by the success of the basketball program just like the BE conference.

Because he clearly understood the national landscape that football drives the bus but couldn't convince anyone here - ergo - the IPF has been on the table for 3-4 years but no support from the Board to even consider building it - they told Doug go find the money yourself and you can build your IPF.

By the way, he felt like the AD was nowhere to be found on this sore subject as Doug thought his job was to Coach football, not be a fundraiser for an IPF. In Dr Gross's defense, there was no money to be had either being stuck in the BE conference that focused its success on basketball (which if you remember turned down a lucrative ESPN contract). It's just how it's done here at SU at least until he left where it became ironic in what happened next.

That was the politics behind the scenes - no real support from above - but their was no money - a real catch 22 - and no vision existed for the football program when Doug made the decision to leave. That's how he got to the point where, as Jake said, someone else will need to take it to the next level.

Now to the most ironic thing that occurred when Doug decided it was time to move on and left - we joined the ACC, football became king again and a light bulb went on from above - and magically funds were found to build the IPF. Imagine that - where did we find these funds all of a sudden I ask all of you?

In a way, Doug finally got what he wanted - the IPF for recruiting purposes - but he had to leave the program to get it.

so basically he didn't get what he wanted fast enough so he was entitled to cry and go home. poor Dougie

 

[Cuseman78]

the question is are we a better program, now...today, than we were 4 years ago when marrone took over? I think that is a hard argument to make based on our wins and our schedule. I think we are back at square one, is Schafer the guy???

Wait, you actually question whether the program is in better shape now than it was when Marrone took over? There's no way there are people out there in this crazy world that actually believe this.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

To his credit, Marrone brought the program back to respectability. We had 2 seasons with pretty good records, and the bowl wins are a nice plus. He helped some kids get to the pros. I feel our program was relatively clean under his watch (yeah, we had some blemishes, but overall nothing too scandalous). He took a really sad program and moved it forward, and had a handful of signature wins. He deserves credit for all of that.

I can understand people wanting more though. He was a .500 coach - that's fact. He did have a losing conference record - that's fact. We watched some really, really ugly football for three of his four years - that's fact.

Two things stick in my craw - the big one is that people were lining up to anoint the guy to be the next great coach before he accomplished anything, and that really rubbed me the wrong way. Comparisons to becoming the football version of Boeheim (who is a true original and basically an institutional treasure), how Marrone sold the dream job thing, the legend of the binder, the mythology surrounding his recruiting (Marrone's recruits are cut from a higher moral cloth/his 2 stars are better than other people's 4 stars/no really, these guys aren't B-listers, etc.), the infatuation fans had with believing that you could white knuckle your way to every win "the Marrone way" because that's how he likes it, the supposed moral superiority bestowed on Marrone for being an alum... these are all things I read about on this board that had absolutely nothing to do with achievements, and aren't even anything Marrone did on his own for the most part. I didn't like the deification, as Crusty nailed it. It made it impossible to objectively evaluate him.

The other thing that bothered me - if you're going to sell fans hard on the job being a dream, you've got to see it through. He didn't see it through.

I'm actually ecstatic for Coach Marrone, man to man. He's in the NFL. That's the right place for him. He must be much happier these days.

 

[chakka3421]

JB built the Melo Center. The donors gave to him, certainly not to DG. That's the job, crappy as it may be.

Yes that is how it is done here at SU.

However, we now have an IPF and upgraded facilities and that is a good thing regardless of how we got there.

It can't be used against us anymore in recruiting battles and that's a good thing. It should make HCSS and those after him have fewer recruiting roadblocks in the future.

And for Marrone - he now works at a place where it's 100% all about football.

 

[Chip]

Wait, you actually question whether the program is in better shape now than it was when Marrone took over? There's no way there are people out there in this crazy world that actually believe this.

I certainly don't believe it.

But if we lose the next 5 games, the 2013 resume would look an awful lot like the 2008 resume. We can hold our own running the ball, terrible passing the ball. 3 wins, blowout losses. A defense that can look either very good or very very bad.

(We're not going to lose our next 5 games).

 

[Bayside44]

Yes that is how it is done here at SU.

However, we now have an IPF and upgraded facilities and that is a good thing regardless of how we got there.

It can't be used against us anymore in recruiting battles and that's a good thing. It should make HCSS and those after him have fewer recruiting roadblocks in the future.

And for Marrone - he now works at a place where it's 100% all about football.

Syracuse was never going to act like an SEC school with football. That's the thing, as an alum and with the binders you'd think he's know that going in.

 

[Finwad32]

How is it Doug's fault even if we do lose next five games?

 

[Chip]

How is it Doug's fault even if we do lose next five games?

Not sure if you were replying to me, but I never meant it would be his fault. I wish he was still our head coach, I was really depressed when he announced he was leaving.

I know there's a big picture of better talent, better discipline, looks like next year's recruiting class is going to be a nice upgrade of skill position players. I was just pointing out that if we did lose the next 5 (which is possible, but not likely), there would seem to be a lot of similarities between 2008 and 2013.

 

[orangehomer]

Wait, you actually question whether the program is in better shape now than it was when Marrone took over? There's no way there are people out there in this crazy world that actually believe this.

we have not shown that we even belong on the field with an actually good team so far this year. 3 of the 5 games against actual football teams have been over by halftime. we have historically bad qb play in an era where qb is everything. what are you watching exactly?

 

[rrlbees]

Not true - their was still no support for the IPF until after he left - suddenly we found the money to build the IPF - lightbulb!

There was support for the IPF, it just wasn't going to be built on his timeline.


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[Finwad32]

Not sure if you were replying to me, but I never meant it would be his fault. I wish he was still our head coach, I was really depressed when he announced he was leaving.

I know there's a big picture of better talent, better discipline, looks like next year's recruiting class is going to be a nice upgrade of skill position players. I was just pointing out that if we did lose the next 5 (which is possible, but not likely), there would seem to be a lot of similarities between 2008 and 2013.

No Chip, didn't mean to come off that way. Your post got tied into my response.

I largely agree with your thoughts. But, I have a lot of respect for Doug, even though I know some don't. He's always been cordial to me and his X's and O's talk always left me saying "I know nothing compared to these guys." That being said, so has HCSS's.

PS - just to be clear, I'm a big fan of Scott's as well. Just saying that I believe coaching is a larger part of the game than the talent differentiation at the D1 level. I don't know what's going on internally but I thoroughly believe in HCSS's knowledge of the game and what he brings to the table as a teacher of young men.

 

[CuyahogaCuse]

i'm exhausted of people acting like marrone did something here. his best record was 8-5 with pinstripe bowl wins with the other coaches recruits at qb, ol, and wr. he left us with nothing. in my own mind I've taken to calling him doug baloney marroney because that is exactly what he is full of. he came here full of piss and vinegar and left here no better than we were before. as a program, and as fans, we owe this guy nothing.

I don't know any of the inside politics, but you are so off-base, it's funny.

25-25 > 10-37

How quickly we forget.

 

[SWC75]

Facilities were a mess and basically hadn't changed since he left as a player.

I remember during the discussions of facilities at the end of the Pasqualoni Era getting out the yearbooks and making a list of the upgrades they had listed for several years before that. Then there were changes made in the G-Rob Era. McNabb paid for a locker room upgrade. There may have been other things to do but I don't think they were the same. And I doubt they were "a mess".

 

[rrlbees]

Syracuse was never going to act like an SEC school with football. That's the thing, as an alum and with the binders you'd think he's know that going in.

You would think with all those binders he would know what he was getting into and what the job entailed, off the field. He hated kissing ass of the donors, hated kissing ass of the board, hated kissing ass of the public and hated kissing ass of recruits. He wasn't very good at any of those things.


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[orangehomer]

I don't know any of the inside politics, but you are so off-base, it's funny.

25-25 > 10-37

How quickly we forget.

you are still intentionally missing the point. the question was, is the program in a better place now then when marrone took over? what about this season shows you any improvement?

 

[chakka3421]

There was support for the IPF, it just wasn't going to be built on his timeline.

True.

But it did take 30 years for JB to get the funds to build the Melo center - I don't think Doug was going to wait that long.

 

[rrlbees]

True.

But it did take 30 years for JB to get the funds to build the Melo center - I don't think Doug was going to wait that long.

Wasn't implying that long. Timeline would have been the same. He wanted it now.


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[Opus]

I hate revisionist history. All I know is Doug Marrone did not want to be the coach at Syracuse anymore, so he left. Good bye Doug. LGO!

 

[chakka3421]

You would think with all those binders he would know what he was getting into and what the job entailed, off the field. He hated kissing ass of the donors, hated kissing ass of the board, hated kissing ass of the public and hated kissing ass of recruits. He wasn't very good at any of those things.

Why not fundraise like Duke - every part of the University, including Athletics, gets a piece of the total pie in the campaign no matter where the money is raised. Fundraising is supported on all levels of the university - we are not very visionary here at SU when it comes to athletic fundraising.

 

[chakka3421]

I remember during the discussions of facilities at the end of the Pasqualoni Era getting out the yearbooks and making a list of the upgrades they had listed for several years before that. Then there were changes made in the G-Rob Era. McNabb paid for a locker room upgrade. There may have been other things to do but I don't think they were the same. And I doubt they were "a mess".

Come on Bro - you can do better than that - you missed my point entirely.