Marrone's tenure here...

[Rocco]

i'm exhausted of people acting like marrone did something here. his best record was 8-5 with pinstripe bowl wins with the other coaches recruits at qb, ol, and wr. he left us with nothing. in my own mind I've taken to calling him doug baloney marroney because that is exactly what he is full of. he came here full of piss and vinegar and left here no better than we were before. as a program, and as fans, we owe this guy nothing.

Makes sense that all of the Syracuse.com posters are starting to show up.

Get lost. You haven't a clue what you speak of.

 

[orangenirvana]

you are still intentionally missing the point. the question was, is the program in a better place now then when marrone took over? what about this season shows you any improvement?

Do you seriously have to ask this question? Of course the program is better now than when Marrone arrived.

They're expected to have at least four players drafted next April (if Hickey declares). Not to mention the six or seven additional players who will be signed to free agent contracts.

When Marrone arrived Syracuse had four players drafted...in the previous three drafts combined.

This whole "Marrone left the cupboard bare" excuse is crap.

 

[omniorange]

That's a totally fair point and I agree with it. But there was also a 4 year Grob era where there was still no movement in upgrading the facilities that Gross saw after. My point was Marrone really got the ball rolling in terms of making progress. I would have thought Gross was aware of this as well when he came aboard but the pressure to get it done just wasn't there.



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On the field progress, yes. In terms of progress toward facilities improvement? He was more of a hindrance than a help.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[orangenirvana]

On the field progress, yes. In terms of progress toward facilities improvement? He was more of a hindrance than a help.

How is that possible?

 

[storange]

If he cared about the transition he wouldn't have taken the whole staff

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That was the part that bothered me.

 

[anomander]

How is that possible?

It's not. I'm confident we would still be sitting around waiting for something to get done if not for the pressure he put on it


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[Bayside44]

Why not fundraise like Duke - every part of the University, including Athletics, gets a piece of the total pie in the campaign no matter where the money is raised. Fundraising is supported on all levels of the university - we are not very visionary here at SU when it comes to athletic fundraising.

I don't disagree with a change in approach at all.

 

[swish7]

To his credit, Marrone brought the program back to respectability. ... Two things stick in my craw - the big one is that people were lining up to anoint the guy to be the next great coach before he accomplished anything... The other thing that bothered me - if you're going to sell fans hard on the job being a dream, you've got to see it through. He didn't see it through.

I don't mean to deify you OttoinGrotto, but that is an incredibly good post. I do not get the deification of Marrone. He is no Coach Mac. He is not even a Pasqualoni.

I hope his tenure becomes a blip on the radar someday. The next successful coach will do it on their own merits. And if so, I hope we remember that coach as their own man.

I love mythology, "gut", and hypotheses as much as anyone, but there is a faction on this board that puts the coach above the program. Like they are his little PR staff. I do not get why any coach is given an automatic 3-4 year leash. We gave it to Grobbycakes. We also gave Pasqualoni more years than was reasonable to pull us out of a tailspin. I hope this does not happen with Shafer. I hope he succeeds, but if it is evident he won't succeed, let's cut bait with he and Gross, and get serious.

I am all over the place here. I am an olympic sports fan. However, it seems with every football hire under Gross's tenure there are some extenuating circumstances short circuiting the selection process, leaving a lot to be desired.

I remember the joke-show that was the Marrone hiring presser. The now disgraced Skanaetles coach practically ripping the mike from Gross's hands. Marrone sort of snidely thanking Gross. Fast forward to Marrone leaving us in a lurch, and taking half the staff with him. The board was almost universally in uproar over him. Even folks like OrangePA were made. I don't remember what happened to restart the deification, but within 4-6 months he was a hero again. Did he give some money or something?

I hope Marrone succeeds in Buffalo. I hope Coughlin gets it going again in NY. These are all good things for SU. However, what we need most is for Shaffer to get his ship together. These are Grobbycakes-esque losses. Due in part to Marrone's recruiting, apparently, and how he left the program. So, deification? No, thank you.

 

[omniorange]

How is that possible?

Personality and attitude with potential donors I suspect? Word is he was ambivalent (and that's being polite) at meeting with a number of monied donors in NYC. Just as he expected recruits to just come to SU, for the fans to just attend the games, he apparently expected that all he had to do was show up for the meeting and donors would write large checks. Again, one potential donor's perspective, but certainly credible considering other reports about Doug in other aspects outside the Xs and Os of the job.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Bayside44]

"if you're going to make me live in Syracuse while you work 23 hours a day, the giant bags of money they're giving is paying for my new kitchen "

his house in amherst is pretty nice too. how long can any NFL coach expect to be around

I think he dumped a lot into renovations, could be wrong, don't really care. Doubt he recoups it all but what do i know.

 

[Millhouse]

Why not fundraise like Duke - every part of the University, including Athletics, gets a piece of the total pie in the campaign no matter where the money is raised. Fundraising is supported on all levels of the university - we are not very visionary here at SU when it comes to athletic fundraising.

because there are too many worthless programs at Syracuse that would leech of the worthwhile things that people would want to support. duke probably doesn't have as much worthless nonsense masquerading as education.

every tub on its own bottom.

 

[orange79]

I cannot stand the complaining about 80 yards.

There is no need at all for those extra 20 yards. No one kicks or throws the ball 90 yards. If you want to practice kicking off, back up, BFD

This 80 yards stuff is one of the reasons why I hate recruiting.

I think it's more about room for different groups to practice, rather than having a 'full field' with which to practice kick-offs, punts, etc. That's the only thing I can think of, because otherwise, I agree with your point.

 

[Millhouse]

I think it's more about room for different groups to practice, rather than having a 'full field' with which to practice kick-offs, punts, etc. That's the only thing I can think of, because otherwise, I agree with your point.

that makes sense but then why would the magic number for that just happen to be 100 yards? if you really want to get 85 guys practicing all over the place, what are the odds that the regulation field is just right for that, would probably need more than that

 

[SoBristol]

It seems simple to me. Doug was not a hot commodity coming off the 2011 season, with a losing streak. Offense improved in the 2012 season, team closed with a strong winning streak, Doug became a hot commodity. Starting from a low point in the program, he ended 2012 looking like a turn-around genius. So, the NFL comes calling and he triples his salary. Good for him -- he had to take the opportunity. I hope he makes the Bills into playoff contenders this season.

He ended the SU free fall, and gave us bowls (OK, minor bowls) in 2010 and 2012. Good for SU. Did as well as anyone could reasonably expect with our program. Added the approach of pulling in jucos to fill gaps, something we had not been doing before Doug.

As for comparing Doug with Shafer (Crusty's post above), I would not touch the subject right now. We have had three real bad losses that were over at half time. Defense that Shafer developed, and turned over to his hand-picked coordinator, has been stunningly bad. Offense has struggled (QBs and WRs) except against bad defenses, and except the fourth quarter against NCState. This is a down spot for Shafer, his assistants, and every unit except (surprisingly) specials which have not regressed.

There are two ways I will judge Shafer & staff. The November rivalry games (Pitt & BC) and how the recruiting class finishes. It isn't up to Doug; time to move on people. It is up to Scott & his team.

 

[chakka3421]

Personality and attitude with potential donors I suspect? Word is he was ambivalent (and that's being polite) at meeting with a number of monied donors in NYC. Just as he expected recruits to just come to SU, for the fans to just attend the games, he apparently expected that all he had to do was show up for the meeting and donors would write large checks. Again, one potential donor's perspective, but certainly credible considering other reports about Doug in other aspects outside the Xs and Os of the job.

Cheers,
Neil

Ill retract my comment...

 

[omniorange]

Why not fundraise like Duke - every part of the University, including Athletics, gets a piece of the total pie in the campaign no matter where the money is raised. Fundraising is supported on all levels of the university - we are not very visionary here at SU when it comes to athletic fundraising.

Duke runs a capital campaign, like mostly everyone else does with targeted areas grouped around certain concepts or goals each with a different target goal of money to be raised.

http://dukeforward.duke.edu/overview/by-the-numbers

The flaw, imho, in the SU campaign, was the lack of a specific area or areas for athletics to fall under. The facilities upgrade for all sports could have been more prominently featured under the "Building Futures" goal. Endowed scholarships for student athletes could have been better featured as an aspect of the "Student Access and Support" part of the goal.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

You have no idea. All you are posting is conjecture on your part.

I'll own that. Will you do the same with your previous post that started my responses and compelled me to add my conjecture?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I do not get why any coach is given an automatic 3-4 year leash. We gave it to Grobbycakes. We also gave Pasqualoni more years than was reasonable to pull us out of a tailspin. I hope this does not happen with Shafer. I hope he succeeds, but if it is evident he won't succeed, let's cut bait with he and Gross, and get serious.

New coaches usually get a 5 year contract. Schools like ND and USC can afford to buy out the last 3-4 years of a contract if a new coach isn't immediately successful.

Doubtful that SU will hand Shafer millions to walk away. He's here for a few more years at least.

 

[chakka3421]

that makes sense but then why would the magic number for that just happen to be 100 yards? if you really want to get 85 guys practicing all over the place, what are the odds that the regulation field is just right for that, would probably need more than that

Its a roadblock to think anyway else is non visionary. SU has not supported the FB program and it showed prior to the IPF - many of the other Universities have IPFs dedicated mainly to the FB program. You are either in the arms race or you are not. SU decided to jump on board and make it a priority and is now building an IPF - it took Doug to leave the program to get this going.

If he cared about the transition he wouldn't have taken the whole staff.

Here is where you and everyone else who thinks this way was wrong. Marrone told Gross exactly who he was taking based upon who Gross decided on the next HC - it was up to Gross to decide if it was Shaffer or Hackett or someone else as our new HC. Gross picked Shaffer. Marrone told Shaffer exactly who he was taking right from the get go. Shaffer was perfectly fine who Marrone took with him as Shaffer wanted to bring his own people in. SU did a poor job communicating who was leaving causing many to be bitter about the whole thing - SU Athletics marketing and AD was to blame here - they handled the whole thing poorly.

 

[omniorange]

Its a roadblock to think anyway else is non visionary. SU has not supported the FB program and it showed prior to the IPF - many of the other Universities have IPFs dedicated mainly to the FB program. You are either in the arms race or you are not. SU decided to jump on board and make it a priority and is now building an IPF - it took Doug to leave the program to get this going.



Here is where you and everyone else who thinks this way was wrong. Marrone told Gross exactly who he was taking based upon who Gross decided on the next HC - it was up to Gross to decide if it was Shaffer or Hackett or someone else as our new HC. Gross picked Shaffer. Marrone told Shaffer exactly who he was taking right from the get go. Shaffer was perfectly fine who Marrone took with him as Shaffer wanted to bring his own people in. SU did a poor job communicating who was leaving many bitter about the whole thing - SU Athletics marketing and AD was to blame here - they handled the whole thing poorly.

WOW! Talk about conjecture. Oh Lord

Cheers,
Neil

 

[anomander]

Personality and attitude with potential donors I suspect? Word is he was ambivalent (and that's being polite) at meeting with a number of monied donors in NYC. Just as he expected recruits to just come to SU, for the fans to just attend the games, he apparently expected that all he had to do was show up for the meeting and donors would write large checks. Again, one potential donor's perspective, but certainly credible considering other reports about Doug in other aspects outside the Xs and Os of the job.

Cheers,
Neil

But yet we hear stories about him working on Al Davis son to donate to the IPF even AFTER he left. I believe CTO told that story a few months ago. The stuff about him being unwilling or just uninterested to do this part of the job are being grossly over blown. Sure he probably wast gun ho about it, but it isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be


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[chakka3421]

WOW! Talk about conjecture. Oh Lord

Cheers,
Neil

Ill grant you the first part but not the second part - the second part is spot on non conjecture.

 

[omniorange]

But yet we hear stories about him working on Al Davis son to donate to the IPF even AFTER he left. I believe CTO told that story a few months ago. The stuff about him being unwilling or just uninterested to do this part of the job are being grossly over blown. Sure he probably wast gun ho about it, but it isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be


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And I'm willing to concede this point. My real issue comes with this notion that he was some sort of visionary that was basically forced to go to the NFL due to the ineptitude of the Athletic Department and SU administration.

Cheers,
Neil

EDIT - Let me add that my own personal opinion is that SU was Doug's "dream job" and he meant that when he said it, but that he learned in his short tenure that the modern college athletics landscape did not play into his strengths and as a result, he realized he belonged in the NFL.

Nothing wrong with that. He is neither villain nor saint. Simply a man who belongs in the NFL. He'd have discovered the same thing about himself if hisdream job was (and he became coach of) Alabama. It just might have taken a little longer, that's all.

 

[anomander]

And I'm willing to concede this point. My real issue comes with this notion that he was some sort of visionary that was basically forced to go to the NFL due to the ineptitude of the Athletic Department and SU administration.

Cheers,
Neil

That's fair enough, but my next question would be is Shafer holding these luncheons? I could be wrong, but I don't believe so. Does he have any prior experience with what it takes to raise money to support a program? He very well could, and I really hope he does, but my point was I believe Marrone knew it exactly what it was going to take to be successful he just found out he really didn't like it, and the lack of support made it worse


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[omniorange]

That's fair enough, but my next question would be is Shafer holding these luncheons? I could be wrong, but I don't believe so. Does he have any prior experience with what it takes to raise money to support a program? He very well could, and I really hope he does, but my point was I believe Marrone knew it exactly what it was going to take to be successful he just found out he really didn't like it, and the lack of support made it worse


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Interesting that you made this point at the exact same point in time I added an edited postscript to my post.

It's my belief that Doug would have left for the NFL even if he was coach at Alabama with all of their support. It was just easier to use lack of support at SU than it would have been at the Crimson Tide. He didn't like recruiting, he didn't like the luncheons, he didn't like the wining and dining of donors. Doesn't mean he wasn't willing to do those things, but deep down inside when you don't like to do certain things, especially things that involve building relationships with others, it comes through with those who you are in contact with. His passion was the Xs and Os, the schemes, the actual coaching, etc.

Perhaps the perfect coach is probably someone who melds the best aspects of Marrone and Shafer. But I think it is far more likely that Shafer can gain the aspects that were strengths of Doug than visa versa.

Cheers,
Neil